First Day with my C5

[Cabo Cruz]

Hey, Br. Gary, you could've been in the UK for a few days...   

[t120rbullet]

Ahh,,,  G5 ,, C5....  its still confuses me... Why not call them the the 19 and the 18 or the Basic and the Classic...

Alphabet bikes, just clump em all together as one.
CJ

[UK-Classics]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that when it gets down to deciding if you think the "welds don't look quality enough for the price", you're looking for some reason to not buy the bike, not reasons for why you want one.

Ace - I think you miss the point – when you are paying a higher price you compare with the competition – Ok you could argue there is no ‘direct’ competition (single cylinder pushrod ‘retro’) but there is now only a small price difference (certainly within UK) with other retro machines like the Bonnie or entry HD sportsta or Guzzi classic (a bit more still).

The reason most of us are on this forum is because we generally prefer RE to the other marques – we all want the company & the new models to succeed (& it will) but when you pay hard cash (& a fair wack at that) for something you expect some of the basics to be right straight from the box.

Kevin's comments reassure me that this company is working hard to resolve some of these issues.

Well, certainly I'm not arguing for cobbly welds. I'd be quite happy with nice welds.

As for the competition:

Here's the 2009 Triumph Bonneville "Black" which is the $7799 version.


Here's the 2009 C5 at ~$7000



Here's the 2009 Harley Sportster 883 "Iron" for about $7600-$8000


And the 2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic at about $8500.



What do you think?
I'm thinking that the C5 is looking pretty darn good in that class of cycles.
.

Ace - thanks for the pics. I generally agree with your summary of these other bikes. The bonnie has gone all 70's with the wheels - not so pretty but a fairly practical everyday bike. The HD iron looks good (for a HD), the guzzi very nice but a bit more money still.

I guess all these other bikes are twins - the cost of ownership e.g. fuel, insurance, servicing, parts etc etc will with out a doubt be significantly cheaper with the C5 over the long run.
The C5 certainly stands out as being different from the rest of the bunch (in my eyes)

I think now, for the first time RE is competing for customers alongside the 'big boys' in the 'retro market' & guys (& gals) will be comparing these bikes alongside each other.

The C5 offers me something completly different from the others 

[UK-Classics]

This give you a bit if insight into the heart of Royal Enfield for better or worse.

Kevin - many thanks for giving us that insight into the 'inner sanctum' of RE. I think you conveyed this very well. It seems they are a small company with a fairly 'flat' structure - I'm pleased that they are operating in the way they do & you deal on a day to day basis with the people that can make the changes to keep the export customers happy. I couldn't see this happening with any other bike manufacturer at this level.

You & your US dealers seem to be way ahead of how the UK importers & (some) dealers aRe operating (although things are certainly improving). Your G5 looks so much better than the UK version (E5) - you are going the extra mile & attention to detail is noticably better.

[Kevin Mahoney]

Another way to look at it is that the big boys are now competing against Royal Enfield for a piece of the retro market!! All of them are youngsters compared to us. For what it's worth, every last one of them is a nice bike, but the more I look the more differences I see. I own a  a 2002 Bonnie myself and do not see it in the same light as an Enfield. Very nice bike with a nice look, runs good. Turns heads but not as much as an Enfield,. Capable of freeway work, not a great idea for longer period of time. To me the Guzzi's are nice just because they are pushrod engines and have a "cool factor". Don't much care for the Sporster, but judged againt their sales I am odd man out on this one.

[Alaroyal]

Another way to look at it is that the big boys are now competing against Royal Enfield for a piece of the retro market!! All of them are youngsters compared to us.  Don't much care for the Sporster, but judged againt their sales I am odd man out on this one.

The real problem about the comparisons between all these bikes is that the complaints are all very subjective in nature.  If you showed the same line up to any afficianado of those individual brands, they would lump the Enfield with all the other bikes and say, for example, the Guzzi was the best.

Also, I wouldn't call HD exactly a youngster, Enfield has maybe 3 or 4 years out of over 100 years more time in the saddle?  And what about some Japanese bikes?  The Suzuki Savage, excuse me, S40 certainly belongs, as do the Kaw 500 twin Vulcan and the Honda VLX 600. (which may both be gone), or do we just discount Japanese bikes out of hand?

I've heard HD lovers, for decades, simply dismiss everybodies' bikes as not being the "read McCoy", and you can't press them on objectivity, they simply justify price, or anything else, on the basis that "It's a harley davidson, man, and if I have to explain, you'll never know."

Well, I'm gonna have to kinda drop out of this, because when we disagree, and I appreciate that on this forum there are many who believe the old adage "We can disagree without being disagreeable" but the debate is informed by subjective factors only, it simply becomes an exercise in futility.

When they were new, and could be bought "cheap", for $652,000.00, was a Ferrari Enzo really worth almost three times the price of a Lamborghini Diablo, or over 8 times the price of a Ford GT?  (keeping in mind Ford has just a smidgen of racing heritage, of its own?) 

Of course not, except that the Ferrari prancing horse has a very high value, at least to the faithful.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the value of subjective discussions, but there is simply no end, until everybody folds their arms, says to themselves, about his or her favorite brand, "I know I'm right", and walks away.

I preach the praises of all my brands,  but I also understand the OBJECTIVE nature of their existence, and will, in a heartbeat, clearly lay out the negatives of that existence.  I can, and upon request, will  be happy to talk about very OBJECTIVE negatives of my Sportster, my Gold Wing, and my Electra.

I understand that that is probably the essence of being a biker, that one is proud of his choice of weapon because of a name, I'm just glad I can evaluate objectively, also, and that I often feel that surge of pride because I know it is partly based on things that can be quantified, and not just qualified.

A short while back, I pulled up to a red light beside a noisy Ultra Classic, looked over and waved to the rider, and got a cold stare back.  I just shrugged, cause that rarely happens anymore, but when the light turned green, and he really punched it, I did too, and in a few seconds me and my Gold Wing were so far ahead of him that I didn't have to listen to the noise.

Will he decide a Honda is better because of that - no, and he shouldn't , but I laugh when I think he believes his machine is superior IN SPITE of it. As the kids say these days, "give me a break".

[ace.cafe]

Sorry about that.

Here's the 2009 Suzuki C40 650 at ~$4900



And the 2009 Kawasaki "Vulcan" 500 at ~$5500.


And the Honda VLX 600 is no longer available.

Here's the 2009 Suzuki TU-250 at ~$3800




I think these bikes are common enough to speak for themselves, so I won't make any comment. The TU250 is a newer release in the US though, and has gotten some attention.

.

[Alaroyal]

The old 650 Suzi has been around for quite awhile, except for a short hiatus, that bike has been built for maybe over 20 years, now.

Thanks, and you're right about the TU250.  It is, in my VERY SUBJECTIVE OPINION, 
in several ways prettier than the Savage.  Very nice curves on the tank and side cover, beautiful exhaust, appealing shapes f and r fenders, and most certainly a tempting price.

Plus I really like the split passenger/pillion two piece seat.  That opens up a lot of possibilities, such as a really pretty back fender being exposed, a nice spring front saddle, a one- up bike with a tour trunk or rack over the rear fender, etc., let your imagination do the rest.

All it needed was a narrow belt drive; made of carbon fiber it could have been no wider than probably 3/4 inch, since it only has 250 CC to handle. Or for commonality of parts to save costs, if the length could have been worked out, based on swing arm length and different ratio requirements, it could have shared the S40 belt, but.......

 

[Cabo Cruz]

Although the TU250X has a single cylinder, it could pass for a small-engined Norton Commando because of the 70s looks and the inclined cylinder.  It is a nice bike in the flesh.  The TU's dimensions are similar to the Bullet's dimensions, with the exception of the dry weight (308 lbs.).  It's been selling in Europe for some three years and it's been getting good reviews.  Irrespective of my tries, I could not talk the dealer into a test ride.  So, my assessment of the bike stops here. 

[ace.cafe]

It took me a while, but I finally figured out why the looks of the TU250 just weren't "right".
It seemed like I should like it better, but I just couldn't.

And now I know why.
If you look at that TU250, the engine sits too high in the frame. And they even cant the engine forward, to get it even higher.

That TU250 is a dirt bike in street clothes.

[Rusty]

Latest update;

250 miles covered now, skipped the planned 200 oil change because I got carried away with riding. 50 to go before first stamped service so I won’t bother now.

Engine is loosening all the time and really wants to rev. I’m keeping it at 40-45 swapping gears to vary the engine speed. Laboured the engine a couple of times to see how the torque’s shaping up, very nicely thanks and the exhaust note even better, but I can’t do it too often. Bloody hard to resist though.

Discovered that the front footrests can be rotated on their fixings and so have been able to get a comfortable distance between footrests and brake/gear pedals. Most fasteners have been tightened by Thor and all need lubing when re-assembled.

3rd to 4th is still tricky, particularly when the engine is cold. I couldn’t get 4th without dropping back to 3rd on the first two tries tonight. A lot better when the engine’s up to temp but it still happens. I’ll make my dealer aware at the first service but if it persists after 500 miles or so the bike will be going back to the dealer, that should be sufficient miles for a selector mechanism to loosen up. I’m surprised that no G5 owners have reported the same problem.

Front loom routed around the right of the headstock chafes on the nacelle and will need sorting if impromptu BBQs are to be avoided. Similarly the battery terminals although well insulated with rubber shrouds are tight against the battery cover. In time vibes will wear through the insulation. 

Miles per gallon is astronomical at running in speeds and the 80mpg claim in normal use is entirely achievable I think.

Still enjoying holding up the traffic.

[Eamon]

It took me a while, but I finally figured out why the looks of the TU250 just weren't "right".
It seemed like I should like it better, but I just couldn't.

And now I know why.
If you look at that TU250, the engine sits too high in the frame. And they even cant the engine forward, to get it even higher.

That TU250 is a dirt bike in street clothes.

They have sold a version of it overseas for years called the TU250 "Grasstracker."
Check out this link and scroll down a little ways:

http://www.suzukicycles.org/2000-2009/2002e.shtml

I actually like that version better!

Eamon

[ace.cafe]

Latest update;

250 miles covered now, skipped the planned 200 oil change because I got carried away with riding. 50 to go before first stamped service so I won’t bother now.

Engine is loosening all the time and really wants to rev. I’m keeping it at 40-45 swapping gears to vary the engine speed. Laboured the engine a couple of times to see how the torque’s shaping up, very nicely thanks and the exhaust note even better, but I can’t do it too often. Bloody hard to resist though.

Discovered that the front footrests can be rotated on their fixings and so have been able to get a comfortable distance between footrests and brake/gear pedals. Most fasteners have been tightened by Thor and all need lubing when re-assembled.

3rd to 4th is still tricky, particularly when the engine is cold. I couldn’t get 4th without dropping back to 3rd on the first two tries tonight. A lot better when the engine’s up to temp but it still happens. I’ll make my dealer aware at the first service but if it persists after 500 miles or so the bike will be going back to the dealer, that should be sufficient miles for a selector mechanism to loosen up. I’m surprised that no G5 owners have reported the same problem.

Front loom routed around the right of the headstock chafes on the nacelle and will need sorting if impromptu BBQs are to be avoided. Similarly the battery terminals although well insulated with rubber shrouds are tight against the battery cover. In time vibes will wear through the insulation. 

Miles per gallon is astronomical at running in speeds and the 80mpg claim in normal use is entirely achievable I think.

Still enjoying holding up the traffic.

Rusty,
Great report.
Sounds like you're having a fantastic time with your new bike!

[t120rbullet]

3rd to 4th is still tricky, particularly when the engine is cold. I couldn’t get 4th without dropping back to 3rd on the first two tries tonight. A lot better when the engine’s up to temp but it still happens. I’ll make my dealer aware at the first service but if it persists after 500 miles or so the bike will be going back to the dealer, that should be sufficient miles for a selector mechanism to loosen up. I’m surprised that no G5 owners have reported the same problem.

My upshifts are flawless, equal to some of the best gearboxes to be had.
My downshifts are another story. I think the problem is mostly a operator headspace problem though.
Bike hasn't trained operator correctly yet but I am getting better at it.
CJ

[Cabo Cruz]

Good show; bloody good show, Br. Rusty!   

Please keep those letters and postcards coming...