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Author Topic: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?  (Read 3926 times)

Corbin

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Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« on: May 16, 2009, 06:17:56 PM »
Hello,

As promised, I do have some things I needed to talk about that I am hoping somebody on this forum can help me with.  The first is with regards to the chain guard located on thr right hand side of the C5.  I have noticed that there has been some severe scrapping of this guard against the down tube that the RH tool box is attached too.  You have to be cleaining and or waxing the chain to even notice it but its there and frankly I am shocked.I have baby'ed this.  Its literally scrapped the black paint off of the chain guard and I am assuming the tube next to it, I cannot see due to the angle.  How can I go about rearranging this piece as to prevent it from continuing and is it covered by the two year warranty?

The second issue which may not even be an issue at all, but being ignorant to RE's as this is my first one, I have noticed that the bike itself runs very well however at times the there is a strange sound that comes out of the engine.  Its a strange sound, like one would expect from a bike with a fan but louder.  It stops almost as quickly as it starts but I have only started hearing this the last few times I had the bike out.  The engine continues smoothly, there is no lost of power and frankly, I feel silly for even bringing it up, but if anybody has heard the same thing with their bike, I'd appreciate it if you let me know to put me out of my misery.

Finally, the silencer has suddenly developed a little rattle when the bike is on its center stand.  I have checked all of the nuts and boltsbut the bike seems to be in tact.Thus, any idea what that may be would also be appreciated. I literally didn't go past fifty for the first five hundred miles.  I slowly started to ease her towards sixty by the time I reached seven hundred miles and only recently, when I found myself at 1200 miles did I start easing her towards seventy on two occassions. 

The bike has caused no hiccups and has been a pleasure to drive really.  But the above does concern me at times.  I will say however that I do wish they left the kick starter on this model, as I find the electric started far from inspiring at times.  She does start each and every time, but I suppose its just getting use to this bike's own particular style.

I have heard through the grapevine that the upsweptexhaust is due to be released with a catalytic converter via my RE dealer here in Ireland.  Unfortunately that is all I have heard as I am still waiting on some bits and bobs that need replacing, like the itty bitty spring in the controil switch that allows you to flash somebody with your high beams.  My spring was damaged in the shippingof the bike and as a result, is too limp now... (well, you know what I mean...).

Some of you have also asked me if the bike handles well, it does perfectly fine in my opinion.  Compared to the other bikes I have ridden, it is so light and nimble that its almost like riding a mountain bike with a five hundred cc engine stuck to the frame.  I also think the tires are great too, the 18 inch may not be as a ttractive as the 19 inch to some but I think they do give handling an edge.

Anyways, any advice would be great, particularly where issue number one is concerned. 

Cheers.
Ride: 2009 Black Royal Enfield Bullet Classic EFI
Name: Betty-Ann
Website: www.bikerdaddy.webs.com

Rusty

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2009, 06:50:35 PM »
As regards the chainguard I've just had a quick look and couldn't see anything wrong but will have a good eyeball tomorrow. I would have thought this should be a warranty issue but if it's poor design replacing parts with the same won't help, can you photograph the paint wear?

The noise you mentioned is something I've experienced I think, usually at low speed in first gear. I can only describe it as a brief loud 'squeak' as if you've run over a large mouse.

And yes when I started the bike yesterday on the main stand the silencer rattled badly on the overrun but it stopped when the exhaust got hot. I haven't noticed it before, it's possible the cat or baffling has become loose in which case definitely a warranty issue. I'm pretty certain it wasn't from the engine.

ace.cafe

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2009, 07:06:46 PM »
I would expect that the chainguard issue could be solved with a little bit of a bend, in just the right way, and some new paint.
If you want to try to get it done under warrantee, I wouldn't blame you.
But, it's certainly not a serious issue.

The other matter with the engine noise, is harder to figure out.
I've spent many years as a mechanic, but no matter how many "owner's descriptions of noises" that I've heard, I rarely am able to determine what they mean, unless I actually hear it for myself on the bike.
I'd just mention it to your dealer when you take it in, and see what he says about it.

Interesting news about the upswept exhaust becoming available with a cataclysmic converter in it. That should make some people happy.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 07:08:39 PM by ace.cafe »
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UK-Classics

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2009, 07:15:02 PM »
Corbin,

this forum is fairly quite at  a weekend & non of the US guys have a C5 yet - there are a couple of brits that do though.

I think your earlier post indicated the bike came direct from India! If so is there any warranty provideded?
Not sure who you ordered it through!

The first problem seems to have been there from the start & may have been damage caused during shipping - you could post some pics of it.

There are 2 RE dealers over in ireland (one in the north & one south) - if you had ordered the bike through one of these you are covered by the Watsonian squire (UK importers) warranty (2 years - 1st year parts & labour, 2nd year parts).

Judging by the probs you seem to have had from the start I guess you ordered direct from India (& probably saved yourself some dosh! But yer pays yer money as they say) - Are you doing all the servicing yourself? It may be a good idea to take the bike to Shannons Garage in Waterford (they were an RE dealer last time I was over there - 12 months ago) & get them to give it a good check over (not sure how experienced they are with the new bikes - best check). DND in Newtownards (Bangor) said they would probably be getting a classic in but didn't think they would sell many over there.

I don't have a C5 yet but have checked them over & had a ride - looking forward to ordering one some time soon
best of luck
Cheers
Nick

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2009, 07:41:52 PM »
Corbin - Rusty,
Relax boys, you are overthinking this. One thing to keep in mind with the Enfield is that less is more. Most answers do not lie deep in a technical manual as there is nothing deep and technical in the bike. Even the EFI is dirt simple.
Lets talk noise - All Enfields have some noise, in fact all motorcycles have some noise. The question as you have rightly pointed out is sorting out the good from the bad, Our resident technical genius Scooter Bob has a saying that you shouldn't worry about a noise in an engine until you have heard it for three consecutive days. Generally good advice except for a noise that is radical. When you put the bike on the center stand everything makes noise, EVERYTHING. All of the vibrations of the bike are channel ed through the steel center stand to the pavement it is sitting on. A big sounding board of sorts. The frequencies that things vibrate at will also be changed quite a bit. The bike is meant to be "rubber mounted" through the tyres. If your silencer is OK when riding, don't worry about it. While anything can happen, the odds of your cat coming loose are quite low.  If it does you have a full two years to discover it. We have not seen one yet on a worldwide basis that I am aware of.
As for the fan type noise that comes and goes, most likely is nothing, keep an ear on it.
  As for warranty questions, the best place to ask them is directly of your dealer. No one on this board can tell you better than your dealer. In the US your chain guard issue would be something your dealer would be very happy to look at and resolve at no cost to you. Interacting with your dealer is a great way for you to get to know each other a bit and to develop some trust. Your US dealer is compensated for warranty work so performing it is not a negative for them. In fact you will find that your dealer wants it to right for you. Seek his/her advice. Also remember this is what amounts to a handmade machine. True the engine and most of it's mechanical parts as well as body work are made on modern day machines. They are still hand assembled and fitted. The only robot in the factory is the one that applies the gasket sealer to the engine cases. (Other than machining centers which make engine parts). Frames are hand welded and hand fitted. Robotics can be used for frames, but even that can be problematic. When there is a variation in a joint or piece of material a man can easily see this and compensate for it, not so easy for a robot. Part of what you are paying for and what the Enfield represents is this labor intensive hand made side of the bike. So when you find something like a rubbing chainguard you have a couple of choices. The first is to take it back to the selling dealer who should cheerfully and happily fix you up, or bend it or whatever it takes yourself. These are typically small tweaks. Some customers like to do this and have confidence other don't. At any rate that is what the warranty is for. As the importer we would never consider arguing with a dealer about a repair like this.
One reason that Royal Enfield doubled the warranty on these new bikes is because they believe that it speaks to the confidence they have in the bike. But the unsaid reason is that as with any new model if something unforeseen (like a rubbing chain guard or strange noise) comes up they want to make sure that the customer is not disappointed and is fully covered. (Yes they really do think like this).
  It is great that you two have our new machines and I think the rest of the members of the board really are excited to hear your reports. Keep the reports coming we enjoy them. It is good for me to talk to people that have the real McCoy because it is still a concept only on this side of the pond.
  We are in very close contact with the UK importers as well as the design and quality teams at the factory and all of us discuss each and every comment and issue we find online or in person. We are a bit like a bunch of vultures waiting to pounch on any issues that arise. We will not let any of you hang there as this new product is critically important to us.

Rusty

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2009, 09:06:26 PM »
Thanks for the reassurance Kevin, sentiments echoed by my local dealer’s confidence in the UK importers attitude to customers.

Both Corbin and I are first time Enfield owners, if we were buying iron barrel or AVL bikes we’d have a wealth of knowledge available on which to base our pre-purchase expectations. With the C5 we’re pioneers and my only experience of bikes is from mainstream manufacturers so inevitably I’ll draw parallels.

I don’t have a problem with that, RE have aimed this bike at attracting new customers and as such they must anticipate higher expectations from them. In my view they’ve done a fantastic job and I’m realistic about small niggles, if I can fix them easily then I will, I wouldn’t do that on a bike from a ‘mainstream’ manufacturer.

It works both ways though, if I do experience serious issues then I expect RE to respond positively. Following a test ride the level of after sales care was the only doubt I had, particularly in the context of an all new bike.

Time will tell but I am optimistic.

I’m very happy with the bike, the riding experience is unique so they’ve nailed that aspect of ownership straight away.

Corbin

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2009, 09:11:52 PM »
Hi Lads,

Thanks for getting back to me regarding this.  With regards to the chain guard, I will take some puictures of it tomorrow morning and post them here for all to see.  I figured  it wasn't a serious issue, but nevertheless, it was one that needs to be addressed.  I may end up removing it myself and having a go at repainting it and bending it in the right spots if need be as I know for a fact that when it comes to parts, I am pretty much on my own unless I go up to Northern Ireland or drder directly from Watsonian or RE America myself.

As for the noise, I know it is difficult to discuss such things without hearing it for yourself.  I have heard it two days in a row at speeds ranging from 55 to 65 miles per hour.   Something sounds like it just is turning on, like a screechy old fan... than stops.  Its weird and as I said, the engine doesn';t seem affected by it all, it just doesn't sound right.  But in saying that, I have only started to push the bike past 60 this past week or so thus perhaps it is just part of its process?!?  I will be taking a vid of the bike soon, hopefully tomorrow if it doesn't rain... but that is something that goes hand in hand with Eire unfortunately.

The sound from the silencer just started.  I am relieved to hear other people have had similar issues and yeah, your right Kevin, that is what a warranty is for I suppose.  With regards to something else, I did buy the bike from an approved Dealer in Southern Ireland.  Sheehans Garage to be precise.  I had ordered the bike back in January and he collected it From Watsonian a month ago, making it the first of its kind in the Republic of Ireland.

Unfortunately, as nice as this man is, I have not had the best luck in terms of customer service.  Let's just put it this way, it took an entire afternoon just to get a simple oil change done at five hundred miles.  I won't go into detail, but needless to say I am pretty much on my own.  I have called several times this week and cannot get through to him and unfortunately, asa Canadian living abroad, Ireland is not the best for customer service in most areas.  I will probably just have to show up at his place this coming week and point out the above to him.  However, until then, it is good to hear your opinions on the matter.  As it stands, I am still waiting on that replacement spring for the high beam flash and my new battery... don't even ask but yes, I don't even have the new battery installed with my new bike.  I am presently using the loaner from the dealership that came off a bike he had just literally brought over on the same shipment with my bikeand no, the bike he took the battery from was not new.

A dealership is as good as its weight in gold and unfortunately at the moment, the latter is the only real let down I have experienced with my bike.  IKeep your eye out for the pic of the chain guard tomorrow.  
Ride: 2009 Black Royal Enfield Bullet Classic EFI
Name: Betty-Ann
Website: www.bikerdaddy.webs.com

Corbin

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2009, 09:19:37 PM »
Rusty Points out what I just posted after him, the main doubt is the after care which in my case has been difficult to non existant.  Other than harrassing my dealer at his private home, I guess I am just going to have to buck up and learn everything there is to know about this handmade motorcycle. 

That isn't a bad thing obviously, its even part of the fun... but still, there are certain things that shouldn't happen and poor customer service is one of those things.  As I said though, fortunately community forums like this exist and so far I have been chuffed with not only the performance of this motorcycle, but the quality of advice and services available here on this website.
Ride: 2009 Black Royal Enfield Bullet Classic EFI
Name: Betty-Ann
Website: www.bikerdaddy.webs.com

Leonard

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2009, 09:28:31 PM »
How lucky you are Corbin, you have an opportunity to contribute greatly to the forum about the idiosyncrasies of this new model.  Depending on the dealer for every little quirk you come across will cost you valuable riding time, jump in there and correct the chain guard yourself.  You'll be surprised how easy it will be.
As to the noise maybe this string will be helpful?  http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,4215.msg47446.html#msg47446
On your exhaust rattle, my money is on that shield being loose or an inside baffle coming unwelded (now there's a warranty item).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 09:38:51 PM by Leonard »
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2009, 10:18:00 PM »
Boys (or Lads as you might say)

Not being a Royal Enfield owner in the past is probably going to be a blessing for you two. I say that because you look at the bike through a different set of eyes than those of us who have had the older models in the past. You make a great point about that.
  I am concerned though about your perceived  lack of support. (Perceived because it is in fact your perception).  This much I can tell you, this is a very new and revolutionary product for us. Because of that and our recognition that there are bound to be some sort of teething problems, the Royal Enfield factory as well the importers are micro focused on these forums and customer comments and issues. We have been keeping very close contact with our dealers and new owners of the G5 (no C5s in the US  yet) and reporting every last paint blemish and real or not so real problems. I just got back from two weeks at the factory where we went over every last comment from the US. In fact they called an all factory meeting to do this.
  My point is to keep the info flowing because it is being watched and reacted to. For example I have passed your comments along to Watsonian and the tech guy at the factory so you both are on our radar.
  I know Watsonian to be a very good importer and if need be they will get you the help you may require. We all have a lot invested in this. If I were you I would not hesitate for a minute to call them directly if need be. Hopefully your problems will be dealt with promptly by your dealer, but if not you have very right to talk to Watsonian and they would be glad to take care of you. As I said earlier support is the name of the game with the Royal Enfield and it is part of what you should expect from us.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 10:20:48 PM by Kevin Mahoney »

UK-Classics

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2009, 10:41:44 PM »
I have visited both Ireland dealers (north & south) within the last 12 months (& about 6 UK RE dealers more recently).

There is certainly not the same customer interest in RE over in Ireland - the 2 dealers don't really promote RE (since they got rid of the old bikes) & certainly don't sell many (it is a v minor part of their business) - I guess thats where the problem is in your case.

At least you bought from a dealer & are covered by the WS warranty if things really go pear shaped. It would be interesting to know what prep they did on the bike before you rode off on it.

When did you take it to Shannons for it's first service? It should be about 300 miles (the 2 year waranty deal is tied in to dealer servicing).

If you arn't getting the dealer support then phone WS direct - they are very hepful generally.

Cheers
Nick

Corbin

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2009, 11:51:08 PM »
Kevin, Speaking of paint blemish, my C5 is actually missing paint on the very tip of the front fender.  The struts that hold the front fender to the forks is also missing paint in one or two spots.  Nothing a can of black paint won't cure and again, based on what I read about the history of this bike, or rather the previous models, I am generally content on allowing such matters slide.

As for lack of support, yes, you are right, I have yet to try Watsonian directly.  But as UK Classics illustrated, the dealer in the South of Ireland is as much a motorcycle dealer as I am a lap dancer.  Certainly, the main man in charge knows the old bikes intimately, but his specialty is farm equipment and the original classic bikes.  He couldn't even tell me where the oil filter went on this new C5 despite assuring me beforehand that he had been to Watsonian on several occassions to discuss and learn about these new bikes.  It was thanks to both common sense and Mr Anderson at RE America that I even figured out what type of oil filter to use in the first place.

My only other choice was to go and buy the bike directly from the UK, which I have done in the past with several other bikes, but keep in mind, the Euro was nearly stronger than the British pound sterling back in January and alas, deposits weren't being taken by most of the dealerships I had contacted via Ireland.So I just put the downpayment on the bike at the only recognized dealership in the south of Ireland.

I had asked the owner of the dealership to allow me to see the motorcycle uncrated.  I don't plan to buy a new bike often and this being my first time, I guess I just wanted to make it special.  I saw everything that they did, and from the get go there were some headaches.  The battery is an excellent example.  For the most part, he did everything that I suspect any dealer would have done (bar be prepared for simple things like battery, registration, etc....) and I found myself riding the bike home on my old plates because the guy didn't even think to call and register the bike earlier in the day. 

As I hinted at in a previous entry, just having the oil changed at five hundred miles (yes, five hundred because that is what he recommended I do) was drama.  They didn't have the right oil and I found myself stranded in the middle of nowehere because I was waiting on the dealership to go into town and purchase the correct oil.  I waitted six hours as oppose to the mere half an hour I had been quoted.  Unfortunately if you factor in that the dealership is an hour and a half away.... well, as I said, its time to get an education in motorcycle maintenance because I have better things to do with my time. 

In fact. I am thinking that anything major that needs to be done I will even just bring the bike to Watsonian directly from now.  I'll take the ferry over and meet the people I have been reading about all of these years.  To be perfectly honest with you, I have even played with the idea of opening up my own RE dealership, inject a bit of North American Customer Service skills into Eire at this point and show them how its suppose to be done.   ;)

As for having a fresh eye on this new and exciting product, I agree.  I think being the first to own  these bikes have been both an advantage yet with some obvious disadvantages.

As for the sound coming from the engine, Thank you leonard for that link.  It may actually just be that what is the problem.  The description sounds accurate though I notice that others experiencing this sound are doing so when the bike is not really at a high speed.  I have yet to hear it at a low speed... or maybe I just haven't noticed it properly until now?!?  I will try and record the sound in the next few days and put it up for everybody to hear.  I do plan to change the silencer for the upswept one when it comes out specifically for this new model. However, that is something that may take a while and is something I had heard via my dealership...
Ride: 2009 Black Royal Enfield Bullet Classic EFI
Name: Betty-Ann
Website: www.bikerdaddy.webs.com

UK-Classics

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 06:13:04 AM »
Corbin - sorry to hear about your lack of dealer support, I would certainly give WS as call next week (maybe drop them a line too). Unfortunatley you are a bit of a pioneer (in your country) regarding the C5 - probably the only EFI owner on your island I guess. 

An update on the upswept silencer - I spoke to WS at the end of last week, they said they are expecting delivery around early to mid July. I forgot to ask if it is the off road uplift (I guess it is  :-\) or the new uplift with CAT built in (road legal)

Best of luck - I'm sure you will get through all this & have many years of happy riding in some wonderful countryside

The other C5 owner on this forum is JamesC5 located in Devon

« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 06:17:01 AM by UK-Classics »
Cheers
Nick

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 06:21:18 AM »
Does Watsonian do service? They are REALLY good guys and do a great deal to contribute to the well being of the Royal Enfield. Mike is one of the best technical guys I have ever come ac cross. He and Peter started the company. Peter retired and Mike brought in some young fresh blood which was also good. The new guys are also great guys and believe in the brand. Mike and I communicate regularly and I use him as a resource a lot.
 When i was at the factory I found a few bikes that had slightly rubbed paint on some of the fender stays. As I tracked it down it came from the guys who pack the bikes. They remove the front fender for shipping and then if they bend the stays in too far when they pack the fender it can rub a bit of paint off. I think we have that under control.
  I would agree with the Watsonian estimate of the arrival of the upswept silencer. Should also be about the same time the color matched rear pillions arrive. These are really nice. A great design and well executed. I am not sure I would count on these silencers coming with a cat. Even if they did, they would only be legal for closed course racing in the US because they would not meet the sound requirement. Having said that better to have a bike that pollutes less.

Rusty

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Re: Bullet Classic EFI (C5) Issues: Can You Help?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2009, 03:08:39 PM »
Update on silencer noise and chainguard:

Took the silencer off today and gave it a good shake to see if anything was loose inside, resisted the temptation to start the bike without it. Couldn't detect anything wrong so back on it went and the bike was started on its mainstand. After a minute or so the rattling started on the overrun, rolled the bike off the stand and it stopped, gently touched the stand down and it started again, stand up and it stopped. Once the bike was fully warm it stopped altogether.

Kevin's right, it seems that touching the mainstand down is enough to set up a resonance which sounds like something rattling about. Once the exhaust system is fully warm it's possible that the characteristics of the silencer are changed due to metal expansion and it stops.

As regards Corbin's rubbing chainguard I've had a good look at mine and can't see anything close enough to the right toolbox area to rub the downtube. I may have misunderstood the precise location but here's a couple of pics

The first shows that the outside flange of the chainguard is cut away as it disappears behind the right hand tool box.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp296/Rusty854/C5/IMG_3299.jpg

The second shows that the outside flange is still missing as the chainguard re-appears on the other side of the tool box so there’s nothing to rub.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp296/Rusty854/C5/IMG_3301.jpg

Hope this helps Corbin, if I’ve got the wrong location let me know and I’ll have another look.