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Author Topic: End of a myth  (Read 7514 times)

donkey

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End of a myth
« on: October 05, 2007, 05:15:26 PM »
http://www.moto-station.com/article3152 ... tion-.html

Nothing that we didn't know yet, but is a hard reality now...
"Never mind the track. The track is for punks. We are Road People. We are Café Racers." Hunter S. Thompson
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Royal Enfield Bullet 500ES
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Thumper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 05:55:40 PM »
Donkey,

Thanks for the post.

Although rough, this translation by Bablefish is pretty revealing:

Royal Enfield will upset the purists in 2008 with his new engine developed for the standards euro 3. The most visible change on the one-cylinder one of Bullet Electra EFI: injection!
M.a.j.: 02-10-2007
 
    Intro     
The date of application of the standard Euro 3 similar to great steps, Royal Enfield was to make evolve/move its legendary one-cylinder of one half-litre. The carburettor was replaced by an injector, but the remainder of the engine has also largely modified him.

 
An engine which is modernized, a motor bike which remains traditional
If the esthetics of Bullet Electra remains unchanged, preserving this acquired line decades ago, it is a completely new engine which takes seat within the framework cradle. To meet the standards Euro 3, the carburettor yielded the place to an injector shouldered by a probe lambda and a catalytic pot. The engine gains 6 horses and develops now 28 horses, which always leaves with the shelter radars. But the evolutions do not stop there.
The clutch and the gear box are not dissociated any more from the engine, the dry casing was replaced by a wet casing and the distribution adopts hydraulic valve lifters (!), which slices very clearly with the image of simplicity associated with the mark. On the level of the practical aspects, one finds a witness of passage automatic in reserve, the tensioner of chain of distribution is now automatic and a simple glance with the port-hole makes it possible to supervise the oil level. As many small installations which should interest those that the voluntary rusticity of Royal Enfield could reject.
If few technical data are for the moment available on this new version of Bullet Electra, the improvements made by the new engine will be judged at the time of the road test, to come over connected ms Restez.

By P' tit Lu

Royal Enfield Bullet Electra EFI, in detail:
- entirely new engine
- one-cylinder 4 times 500 Cm3 (84 X 90 mm)
- power 28 CH. (6 CH. moreover than the anicen model)
- approved Euro 3: injection, probe lambda, catalytic pot
- clutch and gear box integrated into the engine
- circuit of lubrication to wet casing
- visible oil level per port-hole
- hydraulic valve lifters
- tensioner of chains of automatic distribution
- witness of passage in reserve
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 05:59:23 PM by Thumper »

LotusSevenMan

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 07:11:29 PM »
Thanks for the translation! ;D
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2007, 12:04:46 AM »
Don't panic. While the new engine is in fact new and injected it is not all bad. Still looks similar to an old Brit single (especially if you paint the cylinder black which it will be on subsequent models), still a long stroke single, Unit engines were very common back in the day. the fuel injection is actually quite well disguised. It now has a reasonable amount of power and with just a chip change it can be safely boosted even more.
  As for the Electra body that is a matter of taste. I personally prefer the older Classic design, but I am old. There is s new retro bike coming that will knock you socks off. Besides the old engine should be available for the rest of the 2008 model year.

RagMan

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2007, 04:50:34 AM »
When can we expect the new retro bike, I will be buying in 3˝ months time - I would be happy to wait if it ain't going to be too long.  Heck, if I can see a picture of it, I may wait anyway..
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stipa

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2007, 06:14:23 AM »
Wanna see the retro bike.  Any chance of getting a download of exploded powerplant drawing?  So we can see, ya know, what to expect?

Steve

exiledcarper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2007, 04:51:30 PM »
Don't panic. While the new engine is in fact new and injected it is not all bad. Still looks similar to an old Brit single (especially if you paint the cylinder black which it will be on subsequent models), still a long stroke single, Unit engines were very common back in the day. the fuel injection is actually quite well disguised. It now has a reasonable amount of power and with just a chip change it can be safely boosted even more.
  As for the Electra body that is a matter of taste. I personally prefer the older Classic design, but I am old. There is s new retro bike coming that will knock you socks off. Besides the old engine should be available for the rest of the 2008 model year.
I can understand the convenience of a more modern design with regards to reliability and especially from the vendors point of view re; warranty claims etc.  I'm sure it will be a very efficient and more convenient bvike. The thing is , lots of potential buyers simply won't consider it to be a real Enfield, given that R.E. is/was a traditional British marque, more recently manufactured in India.  Still a vintage British bike though, which the new engined machine will definitely not be.  I personal feel that Eicher should now drop the Royal enfield name, as there will be nothing Enfield about the new machine.  Agreed, the new motor represents technological progress, it's just not an Enfield!

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2007, 05:05:25 PM »
Don't panic. While the new engine is in fact new and injected it is not all bad. Still looks similar to an old Brit single (especially if you paint the cylinder black which it will be on subsequent models), still a long stroke single, Unit engines were very common back in the day. the fuel injection is actually quite well disguised. It now has a reasonable amount of power and with just a chip change it can be safely boosted even more.
  As for the Electra body that is a matter of taste. I personally prefer the older Classic design, but I am old. There is s new retro bike coming that will knock you socks off. Besides the old engine should be available for the rest of the 2008 model year.
I can understand the convenience of a more modern design with regards to reliability and especially from the vendors point of view re; warranty claims etc.  I'm sure it will be a very efficient and more convenient bvike. The thing is , lots of potential buyers simply won't consider it to be a real Enfield, given that R.E. is/was a traditional British marque, more recently manufactured in India.  Still a vintage British bike though, which the new engined machine will definitely not be.  I personal feel that Eicher should now drop the Royal enfield name, as there will be nothing Enfield about the new machine.  Agreed, the new motor represents technological progress, it's just not an Enfield!
I second that statement sir.  I would guess that 90% of buyers for the Enfield were influenced by the look and "untainted by technolgy" thing.  As far as younger new buyers.........they will go with faster bikes other than the Enfield.    Just my oppinion.     Hutch
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 05:10:33 PM by hutch »
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2007, 05:36:34 PM »
My guess is that it will be at least a year before we actually see the new bike. It will be introduced in late fall/early winter but won't be in production yet. Then I have a bad habit of letting the Europeans work out the kinks on new models. I think best case they will be available as 2009 models in the US.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2007, 05:46:45 PM »
There are no exploded views, shop manuals, parts books etc available yet for the new engine. It is still a dead simple long-stroke single. It is basically a Lean-burn bottom end. a similar TCI ignition, hydraulic lifter to eliminate noise, adjustment and to allow the valve clearances to be constant to control emissions. The transmission is almost the same as the current 5 speed, just in a different case. It is still a pushrod low RPM engine. It also looks to me as if adding a carburetor would be very easy. I am sure someone will do it right away. The engine will be available in a couple types of dress. The engine you see in the pictures is the more modern 70's type look, through the use of a painted barrel and different sidecovers a more Vintage look will also be produced.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 05:54:21 PM by Royal Enfield 1 »

prof_stack

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2007, 07:03:47 PM »
Sign me up!  2009 Model G (J?) black painted cylinder and the modern stuff.  28hp and more on tap, what's not to like?   ;D

Sorry, Hutch, I'm in on this one.   ;)  It probably will bring a whole new group of riders into the RE fold. 

Bring it on!

exiledcarper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2007, 07:22:51 PM »
Sign me up!  2009 Model G (J?) black painted cylinder and the modern stuff.  28hp and more on tap, what's not to like?   ;D

Sorry, Hutch, I'm in on this one.   ;)  It probably will bring a whole new group of riders into the RE fold. 

Bring it on!
  I think that Hutch would probably agree that it will be  a decent bike, just NOT an Enfield by any description. Just my opinion, but I think it should be called the Eicher 500, or similar.  Definitely shouldn't use the Royal Enfield marque though as it simply aint an Enfield!  I guess there will be two distinct camps, however I feel that losing the vintage appeal of the Bullet will see a deline in sales, although not in the home market, where the Enfield is seen simply as a good honest Indian made vehicle, rather than necessarily old British iron. Losing the Bullet is losing the one thing that makes Enfield stand out as different, namely vintage appeal.  There's plenty of other efficient modern machines out there.  Might as well by a Jap bike, with more proven technology.

justin_o_guy

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2007, 07:52:08 PM »
Manufacturers have been bastardizing marques forever. Establish it & harvest it. Remember the way the Mustang morphed from a muscle car to an embarassment? Ugly & incompetent little piece O junk. But, they left the name on it. The changes of the future by RE arent dictated by their greed or bad judgement, but by govt regulation. I hope they work to maintain as much authenticity as they can while they try to salvage the marque. I dont see RE as the bad guy here, but more victim. It is sad, tho, & I wish I had a pat answer, It will be more RE than any other bike built, but, from a purist position, it wont be RE at all.. Tough all around, I see both sides of the argument,, does that mean I am fair minded? Or ,, does it mean I am confused??  ???

luoma

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2007, 08:29:44 PM »
Personally, I applaud RE for working so hard to maintain the personality of their bikes while keeping up with modern requirements. They could have very easily gone the other way and build generic jap knockoffs. Harley had the same dilemma. They opted not to try to compete with the Japs by matching shear numbers on the spec sheet, but instead maintained the character of the machine, something the Japs haven't been able to duplicate exactly.

I don't mind the idea of a unit motor. Old BSA 500s had unit power plants that looked similar to what RE is doing with the UCE, and they were famous for spunk and durability. My Brit bike dealer friend still races one in the vintage flat track class. I just hope they keep the stying vintage.

exiledcarper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2007, 11:10:56 PM »
Manufacturers have been bastardizing marques forever. Establish it & harvest it. Remember the way the Mustang morphed from a muscle car to an embarassment? Ugly & incompetent little piece O junk. But, they left the name on it. The changes of the future by RE arent dictated by their greed or bad judgement, but by govt regulation. I hope they work to maintain as much authenticity as they can while they try to salvage the marque. I dont see RE as the bad guy here, but more victim. It is sad, tho, & I wish I had a pat answer, It will be more RE than any other bike built, but, from a purist position, it wont be RE at all.. Tough all around, I see both sides of the argument,, does that mean I am fair minded? Or ,, does it mean I am confused??  ???
[/quote  I totally agree that it's the goverment suits who have killed off the Classic, that's hardly R.E.'s fault.  I still maintain though, that a Royal Enfiled is a motorcycle of British design.  The new machine is nothing of the sort and I just don't think it should carry the Enfield name.  That doesn't mean I don't think the EFI will be a good bike, I'm confident it will be. Not a Royal Enfield though.

deejay

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2007, 11:48:58 PM »
As far as younger new buyers.........they will go with faster bikes other than the Enfield.    Just my oppinion.     Hutch

hey not all of us! although, my friends who ride have ducatis and ninjas. i am the black sheep.

Like I said before, I'm glad I got my classic when I did. the new bikes will do well i'm sure, just look at the new bonnevilles... those are all over the place, and they sure ain't "real" bonnevilles. but triumph did what they could to please the purists, and updated the product.

I'm sure you're aware that we Bullet owners are a rare breed. the level of maintenance is simply not desired from most motorcyclists. It's not that i like the new direction, but i understand why it's being done. it may be a sad day for us, but an exciting one for RE.

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2007, 12:08:27 AM »
I sure do hope they keep the old look. I have had my Classic Bullet and my Savage 650 in the front yard for sale for 2 weeks now. No one even looks at the Savage, even when I tell them it is faster than the Bullet. I made up my mind that the Bullet was not for sale last week and nobody has stopped since. Now what does that tell you about the general publics thoughts??? In 1968 and 1/2 RE tried to upgrade their 750 Interceptor with the "grabbing at straws" last minute changes to save their line of twins, and they were nothing but unreliable oil leaking piece of junk. All you have to do is look up the cycle world test rides for the "new Interceptors" for 1969 and 70 to see that I am not lying.Which is why they stopped making them, and why I waited 39 years to find the last true time tested Interceptor, a 1967. The government has messed everything up with their do as I say and not what I do attitude. I don't know if anyone has seen the "Escape from New York and Escape from LA "movies, but to make along story short the Government wouldn't alow this and that, while they did what ever they wanted. They kept pulling a so called radical enemy of the state out of prison to do their dirty work. He got even in the end both times. I loved the last one. He got ahold of the control that the Government could use to shut down all electronics in any country so they could rule the world. There also happened to be a world wide shut down code. Seeing how messed up the world was, he decided to enter the 666 world wide shut down code, and put everybody back in the stone ages as far as technology was concerned. He figured like me, maybe we can get it right the NEXT time. The Lord tried that with the great flood, and that didn't work either............One can always hope though.     Hutch
You learn from your mistakes, and I have LEARNED a lot.

deejay

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2007, 12:12:39 AM »
I sure do hope they keep the old look. I have had my Classic Bullet and my Savage 650 in the front yard for sale for 2 weeks now. No one even looks at the Savage, even when I tell them it is faster than the Bullet. I made up my mind that the Bullet was not for sale last week and nobody has stopped since. Now what does that tell you about the general publics thoughts??? In 1968 and 1/2 RE tried to upgrade their 750 Interceptor with the "grabbing at straws" last minute changes to save their line of twins, and they were nothing but unreliable oil leaking piece of junk. All you have to do is look up the cycle world test rides for the "new Interceptors" for 1969 and 70 to see that I am not lying.Which is why they stopped making them, and why I waited 39 years to find the last true time tested Interceptor, a 1967. The government has messed everything up with their do as I say and not what I do attitude. I don't know if anyone has seen the "Escape from New York and Escape from LA "movies, but to make along story short the Government wouldn't alow this and that, while they did what ever they wanted. They kept pulling a so called radical enemy of the state out of prison to do their dirty work. He got even in the end both times. I loved the last one. He got ahold of the control that the Government could use to shut down all electronics in any country so they could rule the world. There also happened to be a world wide shut down code. Seeing how messed up the world was, he decided to enter the 666 world wide shut down code, and put everybody back in the stone ages as far as technology was concerned. He figured like me, maybe we can get it right the NEXT time. The Lord tried that with the great flood, and that didn't work either............One can always hope though.     Hutch

you were going to SELL the bullet??!?!? Oh, and those "Escape" movies are great!

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2007, 12:30:51 AM »
As far as younger new buyers.........they will go with faster bikes other than the Enfield.    Just my oppinion.     Hutch

hey not all of us! although, my friends who ride have ducatis and ninjas. i am the black sheep.

Like I said before, I'm glad I got my classic when I did. the new bikes will do well i'm sure, just look at the new bonnevilles... those are all over the place, and they sure ain't "real" bonnevilles. but triumph did what they could to please the purists, and updated the product.

I'm sure you're aware that we Bullet owners are a rare breed. the level of maintenance is simply not desired from most motorcyclists. It's not that i like the new direction, but i understand why it's being done. it may be a sad day for us, but an exciting one for RE.

Deejay, thanks for letting me know that not all the younger generation has lost their sense. One thing you should know is that the new Triumph has no dealings whatso ever with the old company. They can't even get you parts for the old ones. They also had to use a 800cc motor to keep up with the Japanese 650cc bike that came out 2 years earlier, and looks more like a Triumph than the new Triumphs do. Also,there is always excitement during chaos..........usually followed by despair.      I hope I am wrong.   Hutch
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deejay

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2007, 01:30:20 AM »

Deejay, thanks for letting me know that not all the younger generation has lost their sense. One thing you should know is that the new Triumph has no dealings whatso ever with the old company. They can't even get you parts for the old ones. They also had to use a 800cc motor to keep up with the Japanese 650cc bike that came out 2 years earlier, and looks more like a Triumph than the new Triumphs do. Also,there is always excitement during chaos..........usually followed by despair.      I hope I am wrong.   Hutch

I know about the new triumph bonnevilles all too well, that was my 1st motorcycle, before the Bullet. I sold it after 1 year of trying to tinker with it. The new bonnevilles seem to be doing well regardless, even though I didn't like it... I guess i'm just not normal. Oh, and I also agree about the Kawasaki W650 (if thats the jap bike you were referring to)... I remember parking my new Bonneville next to one and thinking the W650 looked much more correct.

It is a shame though about the Bullet, I accidentally discovered what real motorcycle ownership was all about. Something I would have never been able to experience if I had stuck with modern machines.

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2007, 03:14:19 AM »

Deejay, thanks for letting me know that not all the younger generation has lost their sense. One thing you should know is that the new Triumph has no dealings whatso ever with the old company. They can't even get you parts for the old ones. They also had to use a 800cc motor to keep up with the Japanese 650cc bike that came out 2 years earlier, and looks more like a Triumph than the new Triumphs do. Also,there is always excitement during chaos..........usually followed by despair.      I hope I am wrong.   Hutch

I know about the new triumph bonnevilles all too well, that was my 1st motorcycle, before the Bullet. I sold it after 1 year of trying to tinker with it. The new bonnevilles seem to be doing well regardless, even though I didn't like it... I guess i'm just not normal. Oh, and I also agree about the Kawasaki W650 (if thats the jap bike you were referring to)... I remember parking my new Bonneville next to one and thinking the W650 looked much more correct.

It is a shame though about the Bullet, I accidentally discovered what real motorcycle ownership was all about. Something I would have never been able to experience if I had stuck with modern machines.
I just bought a low miles W650 about a 2 months ago. I went all the way from Michigan to Wisconsin to get it. About 3000 miles of saddle time tells me I should have bought one back in 2000 when I was window shopping. So far of all the bikes I have owned in 40+ years it is the best combination of smoothness, looks, handling,ride and it performs right with the 800cc Triumph,, and HD Sportster. They have a comparison of all 3 bikes being road tested by the same people the same day here on the internet somewhere. Being the smallest cc bike of the 3 made it shine to me. Owning one proved it.The only thing I don't like is the electronic ignition. I have never been stranded on a bike with points. Can't say that about the electronic ones I have owned. It was just to bad that Kawasaki decided to quit exporting them to the US after only 3 years.The people in Europe can still get new ones.That is why I was going to sell my Bullet and several other bikes I have. I just got to many bikes. I changed my mind about the Bullet Classic as soon as I seen how long the "lean burn" is going to last and be replaced by another "new" idea.  Sorry Kevin and everybody. I am getting way off topic.      Hutch
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 03:45:21 AM by hutch »
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donkey

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2007, 04:55:31 PM »
I'am still thinking that this means the real end of the Bullet, 'cause a Bullet is over all, his pre-unit motor. Upgrade and modernized is allways welcome, but this new bikes there will no Bullets, in my opinion. Is like the BMW Mini, or the new injected Bonneville. Bullets is for purist, isn't it?
In this case of international green laws, and moderns upgrades and evolutions I think the best choice is rebirth the 700 Interceptor or Meteor with a Kawasaki W650 style motor... (W650 'cause still have kick start, of course). That's all, in a few weeks I will have my Bullet, my real Bullet, maybe the last of a legend (I check the engine number, jajaja)
"Never mind the track. The track is for punks. We are Road People. We are Café Racers." Hunter S. Thompson
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Café Racer CB400SS
Royal Enfield Bullet 500ES
-------------------------------

dave48

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2007, 05:25:06 PM »
" but triumph did what they could to please the purists, and updated the product. "

Triumph did neither well - and folded big time!
Hinckley Triumphs were (and are as far as I know) the result of long term planning and investement by a "businessman" - NOT a m'cycle industry guy at all (a property developer, house and factory builder actually). The bit of what was left of Triumph post-Meriden that DID pass to a m'cycle enthusiast had neither the investment nor the trade and patent rights to do more than carry on with Meriden Bonnies etc - didn't last too long either!

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2007, 06:54:49 PM »
Do you know how Triumphs are put together?
Try this clip. Requires sound!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc

 ::)
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
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exiledcarper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2007, 07:35:53 PM »
That is 'kin hilararious!!! ;D

dave48

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2007, 08:06:14 PM »
Nice one (or three).

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2007, 10:17:00 PM »
LMAO, Way funny. Those guys deserve an award.   Hutch
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2007, 10:29:08 PM »
Royal Enfield took a hard look at reviving the Series II Interceptor engine for all of the obvious reasons. They concluded that it could not be made to run clean enough and would not meet modern day reliability standards. On the otherhand maybe a look alike would have been a good idea. As has been mentioned Kawasaki did a great job of building a motor that looked right while being modren. Note that it was not a visual copy of any particular motlr, but rather it took visual cues from several old Brit motors
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 02:07:40 AM by Royal Enfield 1 »

hutch

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2007, 10:56:13 PM »
Royal Enfield took a hard look at reviving the Series II Interceptor engine for all of the obvious reasons. They concluded that it could not be made to run clean enough and would not meet modern day reliability standards. On the otherhand maybe a look alike would have been a good idea. As has been mentioned Kawasaki did a great job of building a motor that looked right while being modren. Note that it was not a visual copy of any particular motlr, but rather it took visual cues from several ol Brit motors
What I liked was when you look at one side of the Kawasaki motor it reminded you of a Triumph with the tear drop cover on the wrong side. If you look at the other side, the cam drive looked similar to a 60's Ducati bevel head 350 or 450 Scrambler. I always wanted one of those back in the 60's also.    Hutch
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 10:59:33 PM by hutch »
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2007, 06:25:12 PM »
From the points brought up here, the three main changes in the new engine are EFI, hydraulic lifters, and the integrated transmission.  Will the hydraulic lifters reduce emissions by that much and from a view of engine safely, are they better or worse (is there much of a problem of sticking)?  I can't see the they would reduce emissions by that much.  If not, then couldn't the fuel injection have been added to the classic or AVL engine as it is to meet European requirements. Then we could have stuck back on a carburetor and gone our own way.

The integrated transmission, as is the case with so many "modernizations",  may have made the engine cheaper to build;  does it make it easier to repair or more reliable? I don't know, just asking.

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2007, 06:59:15 PM »
Hydraulic lifters are said to be quieter.  In the case of the "loud valves save lives" RE's, that is probably true.  My two Harleys and two Buells all had/have hydraulic lifters and they've had NO problems whatsover.  They also eliminate valve adjustments, not a bad thing.

You know, one thing I want to know about the new engine is if I can ride it from the shop 60 miles from home and get home without worrying about breakage during break-in.  Not interstate running, mind you.

deejay

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2007, 07:57:56 PM »
You know, one thing I want to know about the new engine is if I can ride it from the shop 60 miles from home and get home without worrying about breakage during break-in.  Not interstate running, mind you.

Are you referring to the classic? If so I think you may be misinformed. Just don't hammer on it, or hold it at 55mph (vary throttle position) during break in. The Classic isn't made of glass. The whole "easy break in" has been exaggerated, one guy here was lugging his machine so badly that he was fouling plugs in an attempt to "take it easy". Thats worse than hammering it.

I made an effort not to beat on my Classic before I hit 1,000 miles, but I didn't baby it. I've never broken down and it starts 1st kick, cold or warm. My only suggestion is to re-jet the carb, they are set up too lean from the factory in my opinion.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 08:01:17 PM by deejay »

luoma

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2007, 11:47:52 PM »
Hey Prof, I agree with you about the lifters. I don't mind adjusting my pushrods, but the clearances change between cold and hot, so you are not gettting the most from the motor. 

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2007, 07:08:29 PM »
Will the hydraulic lifters reduce emissions by that much and from a view of engine safely, are they better or worse (is there much of a problem of sticking)?  I can't see the they would reduce emissions by that much.  One of the keys to a clean burning engine is to be able to control the combustion process. This is one reason that electronic fuel injection works so well. Hydraulic lifters help keep the valve lash to a minimum which then means that the opening and closing of the valves is consistant and accurate. With solid lifters such as those which are currently in the Enfield the valve timing is all over the place as valve lash changes with heating and cooling. ("All over the place" is a relative term). IN the 50's it was not unheard of to have hydraulic lifters "stick", mostly because of varnish buildup. Doesn't' happen much these days.

If not, then couldn't the fuel injection have been added to the classic or AVL engine as it is to meet European requirements. Then we could have stuck back on a carburetor and gone our own way. It looks to me as if sticking a carburetor on this bike will be an easy thing

The integrated transmission, as is the case with so many "modernizations",  may have made the engine cheaper to build;  does it make it easier to repair or more reliable? I don't know, just asking. I am guessing that it is less expensive to build. Someone on this forum mentioned that a unit construction engine transfers more HP to the rear wheel, but I am not sure myself. It makes sense, but this is not an area that I have any expertise

DaveG297

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 12:35:35 AM »
Now youall know what us OLD guys been putting up with all these years we've been upright.  NOTHIN stays the same.   Maybe my 02 ES will appreciate.  How will the dealers get rid of all those T shirts that say,,,,,,,Loud valves'''''''''''''''''''''''' and so on.   Maybe I'm old enough that this won't bother me unless they put some training wheels on the new ones.  Now that I could use................Keep smiling youall.........especially Hutch.........I'd send those pics if I could figure out how.........dg

LJRead

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 03:00:43 AM »
Maybe believing in a company like Enfield is like believing in an old friend.  You have known someone for seventy years and someone else starts telling you he's no good anymore, he is a crook, a thief and a pervert.  But you know that isn't true because you know the guy.

Enfield has been going for so many years.  Sure it has changed ownership, but it is owned by committed people, perhaps more committed because they haven't transferred the ownership to some other country or group.   I think for my isolated situation, I'd be tempted to get rid of the EFI and add a good carb, but it looks good enough and has more power, and the lifters, though I wouldn't be able to adjust hydraulic ones, will leave me free to do some other chore on the bike.

It may be good enough.

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2007, 01:05:15 PM »
The appeal of the RE to many of us has been not only that it's a 500cc thumper, but also the very classic lines. In terms of appearance the Classics are pretty much the real deal. Bikes like the Electra X and Machismo have strayed a bit. The Electra X has been advertised as having a 'Classic 70's Style' and I have to say that it does remind me of the early Japanese attempts at cruisers (remember all the Yamaha 'Specials'?).

My guess is that RE will continue to have a model with very classic lines - despite the UCE engine. Remember the GB500 and the SR500. The SR500 was really closer to a dirt bike (of the late 70's) than the British singles it sought to recall; but it still brought forth the same feel and emotion. Both had UCEs.

I'm hoping they'll have a modern SRX-6 or even a Supermono!

I think the only place where they'll fall flat is to try to target the young whipper snappers. I just can't see the 20-somethings (or even 30-somethings) buying street singles - unless they are real gearheads.

Matt


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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2007, 01:32:03 PM »
There is a growing following of thumpers, particularly high capacity. Admittedly the guys buying are not much into anything other that gas and go bikes, but a gas and go Royal Enfield would sell to those who now buy Kawasaki KLR 650s and do something called a 'Jap Street Mod' on them. They turn it into a lower, meaner looking machine, with street tires, and no 'sport plastic' I have seen a couple of them that look odd, but the guys with them want a thumper, that is a street machine. They do the same with the smaller displacement machines too - I saw a Yamaha TW200 turned into a street only machine - the thing looked pretty good.  A huge street tire on the back, and painted blue.

If they will ride such a strange machine, I'd bet they would like a reliable RE - I intend to get one as soon as I can, but I can't decide if that would be instead of the January bike, or as well as.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:33:39 PM by IndianaBulleteer »
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2007, 04:50:13 PM »
There is a growing following of thumpers, particularly high capacity. Admittedly the guys buying are not much into anything other that gas and go bikes, but a gas and go Royal Enfield would sell to those who now buy Kawasaki KLR 650s and do something called a 'Jap Street Mod' on them. They turn it into a lower, meaner looking machine, with street tires, and no 'sport plastic' I have seen a couple of them that look odd, but the guys with them want a thumper, that is a street machine. They do the same with the smaller displacement machines too - I saw a Yamaha TW200 turned into a street only machine - the thing looked pretty good.  A huge street tire on the back, and painted blue.

If they will ride such a strange machine, I'd bet they would like a reliable RE - I intend to get one as soon as I can, but I can't decide if that would be instead of the January bike, or as well as.

That KLR keeps selling year after year - and keeps getting great reviews. The latest issue (November, I think) of either Motorcyclist or Cycle World mentions that it's the KLR's 25th anniversary. I remember seeing one at the Summit Point WV racetrack many many years ago that had been only slightly modified and was running against a field of streetbikes (this was before crotch rockets made street-legal racebikes available for the tracks). If I remember he competed real well even though he used motocross body-english. (Kind of had to since he had on stock handlebars and footpegs!)

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2007, 09:18:09 PM »
I am seriously tempted by the 2008 KLR - it just looks great..  I may well end up with one in my stable.
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2008, 08:08:22 AM »
I have been cogitating on this thread for some time.

Granted, the Classic 500 Bullet has a following and it is steeped in traditional 50's era motorcycles.

Be grateful that one manufacturer, guided by a culture less bent on high technology, kept the traditional, "everyman's" bike alive.

That said, where would Royal Enfield be if it had not fallen to the Japanese invasion?
Would the marque have developed newer models incorporating new technology? Of course!

The reason the classic Bullet survived was that it had a built-in home market.  Now that the world has re-discovered Royal Enfield I think it behooves them to fit-in with the world market.  If the world needs less emissions and all the other manufacturers are following suit, why not RE?

Do not we wish them well in their endeavors? Or are we just being selfish, wanting to hang onto our precious 50's motorcycle?

As I hear it, the traditional Bullet is still being made for awhile, and parts will be available for a long time. Enjoy what is and try to be enthusiastic about a new version.

Personally, I love the opportunity to own a new/old bike in my 2006 500ES Classic. It's a kick. And I live in a rural enough environment where the bike works well.

But I want to venture farther and wider and I do not like any of the Japanese offerings.  They are way too over powered and space-agey for me. I rather like the looks of the Moto Guzzi California. Affording one is another issue.

Now if Royal Enfield makes a new "Model G" (or J, or whatever) with a modern engine with agreeable performance, why begrudge that? Have your cake and eat it too. Maybe we could refer to it as the new 1956 model??

Okay, Kevin, your turn. Sneak us some pics of this retro model that will "knock your socks off", so that those that are being dragged into the 21st century, kicking and screaming, will sit up and be encouraged that all is not lost.

-Jesse in P.A.
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2008, 04:36:42 PM »
The "Home Market" will also require Euro 3 and soon Euro 4 emmisions standards. RE must either dance to the "tree huggers" beat, or go out of business.
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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2008, 11:13:36 PM »
The "Home Market" will also require Euro 3 and soon Euro 4 emmisions standards. RE must either dance to the "tree huggers" beat, or go out of business.
jim

Yup, motor vehicle manufacturers all over the world are going to have to conform to the various standards placed in front of them.  I hope to goodness the AVL engine is able to do it for RE.  Enfield has demonstrated a commitment to the older style looks and feel a bike is supposed to have.  (although some of th pics of newer 350's have me a little worried)   If they can maintain the aesthetics and the feel of the man/machine interface as it is now and have an acceptable engine stuck in it with decent performance, seems like that's about all I can ask of them. 

2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2008, 07:27:11 AM »
With all the experienced riders responding here, I feel sheepish as a newbie about chiming in.  I hope y'all don't mind.

"You can't walk in the same water of a river twice", as the old Buddist saying goes.  As many are stating above, RE has to evolve or go out of business, I believe.  We'll never have another Beatles, Led Zep, or Miles Davis.  All had to move on in one way or another.  I'm grateful we had them. 

I fully agree that it's a shame that the old thumpers are going away; personally, I solved this with my '69 restoration project, so I have that plus my new AVL.  I know it's an expensive approach, and won't suit everyone.

I don't mind that there is an EFI engine coming out to conform with modern standards.  Wish I had EFI on my fishing boat that has twin 5.7 v8's and get more efficiency!

From my viewpoint, I welcome all modern improvements as long as the aesthetic of the RE stays in tact so RE's can still be sold, and RE stays in business to make parts for the old bikes so we can restore 'em and keep 'em running.



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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2008, 09:07:33 AM »
CHarte.
Led Zeppelin just played the O2 with a near a lineup to the original as possible so they ain't gone away!
RE won't either if they follow the ethos of a modern 'vintage' looking (not just retro) machine. How to encourage more 'youngsters to the RE clan? Not easy when I saw a brand new shiny, well built Honda 500/600 (didn't look that closely at the cc) but at an OTR price of 3,650 UKP. About the same price a 500 Enfield sells here over the pond. Honda reliability and dealer network and etc etc speaky loudly.
What's a young man or woman going to do whos only mechanical knowledge is turning up the room stat? Which are they going to buy?  ::)

I am a recent convert (last year) but had messed with mechanical stuff for years (I'm nearly 49 years young) so love the RE but am not sure about the real younger riders.................................!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2008, 11:32:26 AM »
Lotus, you got me on the Zep reference ;-)

I had a friend who attended the show.......says they haven't lost a thing. 

As far as appealing to the younger crowd, I'm behind you by 10 years, so I don't know if I'm authorized to represent them anymore......I found it weird when people referred to my '69 as a classic....same year I was born (another neat aspect about the 69 project..........my bike and I are the same age).

I do think there is something to the modern RE's in terms of quality and reliability.  I'll be taking my 07 to Leh in the Himalayas this summer since it's the modern one, disk brake and all, and the 69 will be for cruising.

I know it's not practical for everyone, but I like the combo of a new RE for serious stuff and the 69 for cruising.

I'm also not as good as you guys with mechanics, so new is important to me since I'm not as handy with roadside repairs.  I know my limitations  :'(

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2008, 12:39:15 AM »
At 33 I would part of the young crowd (tho not yet a RE owner, more of an "owner-to-someday-be). I can honestly say that while the prospect of tinkering with the bike does sometimes seem intimidating, with the correct resources (manual and this fine board especially)and some patience, it does not seem an overwhelming issue. Then again, I took an auto-mechanics course 3 hours a day my senior year so I could learn to work on my car ( I had '75 Camaro ergo it was something that COULD be worked on fairly easily). ;)
I can't say that I represent most in my age demographic...now that I think about it, location and rearing probably has a significant bearing on the desire to LEARN to work on something. I grew up in a somewhat rural area so I think that lends to it more than if I'd grown up in a big city someplace.
Just a thought or two...