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Author Topic: End of a myth  (Read 7352 times)

prof_stack

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2007, 06:59:15 PM »
Hydraulic lifters are said to be quieter.  In the case of the "loud valves save lives" RE's, that is probably true.  My two Harleys and two Buells all had/have hydraulic lifters and they've had NO problems whatsover.  They also eliminate valve adjustments, not a bad thing.

You know, one thing I want to know about the new engine is if I can ride it from the shop 60 miles from home and get home without worrying about breakage during break-in.  Not interstate running, mind you.

deejay

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2007, 07:57:56 PM »
You know, one thing I want to know about the new engine is if I can ride it from the shop 60 miles from home and get home without worrying about breakage during break-in.  Not interstate running, mind you.

Are you referring to the classic? If so I think you may be misinformed. Just don't hammer on it, or hold it at 55mph (vary throttle position) during break in. The Classic isn't made of glass. The whole "easy break in" has been exaggerated, one guy here was lugging his machine so badly that he was fouling plugs in an attempt to "take it easy". Thats worse than hammering it.

I made an effort not to beat on my Classic before I hit 1,000 miles, but I didn't baby it. I've never broken down and it starts 1st kick, cold or warm. My only suggestion is to re-jet the carb, they are set up too lean from the factory in my opinion.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 08:01:17 PM by deejay »

luoma

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2007, 11:47:52 PM »
Hey Prof, I agree with you about the lifters. I don't mind adjusting my pushrods, but the clearances change between cold and hot, so you are not gettting the most from the motor. 

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2007, 07:08:29 PM »
Will the hydraulic lifters reduce emissions by that much and from a view of engine safely, are they better or worse (is there much of a problem of sticking)?  I can't see the they would reduce emissions by that much.  One of the keys to a clean burning engine is to be able to control the combustion process. This is one reason that electronic fuel injection works so well. Hydraulic lifters help keep the valve lash to a minimum which then means that the opening and closing of the valves is consistant and accurate. With solid lifters such as those which are currently in the Enfield the valve timing is all over the place as valve lash changes with heating and cooling. ("All over the place" is a relative term). IN the 50's it was not unheard of to have hydraulic lifters "stick", mostly because of varnish buildup. Doesn't' happen much these days.

If not, then couldn't the fuel injection have been added to the classic or AVL engine as it is to meet European requirements. Then we could have stuck back on a carburetor and gone our own way. It looks to me as if sticking a carburetor on this bike will be an easy thing

The integrated transmission, as is the case with so many "modernizations",  may have made the engine cheaper to build;  does it make it easier to repair or more reliable? I don't know, just asking. I am guessing that it is less expensive to build. Someone on this forum mentioned that a unit construction engine transfers more HP to the rear wheel, but I am not sure myself. It makes sense, but this is not an area that I have any expertise

DaveG297

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 12:35:35 AM »
Now youall know what us OLD guys been putting up with all these years we've been upright.  NOTHIN stays the same.   Maybe my 02 ES will appreciate.  How will the dealers get rid of all those T shirts that say,,,,,,,Loud valves'''''''''''''''''''''''' and so on.   Maybe I'm old enough that this won't bother me unless they put some training wheels on the new ones.  Now that I could use................Keep smiling youall.........especially Hutch.........I'd send those pics if I could figure out how.........dg

LJRead

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 03:00:43 AM »
Maybe believing in a company like Enfield is like believing in an old friend.  You have known someone for seventy years and someone else starts telling you he's no good anymore, he is a crook, a thief and a pervert.  But you know that isn't true because you know the guy.

Enfield has been going for so many years.  Sure it has changed ownership, but it is owned by committed people, perhaps more committed because they haven't transferred the ownership to some other country or group.   I think for my isolated situation, I'd be tempted to get rid of the EFI and add a good carb, but it looks good enough and has more power, and the lifters, though I wouldn't be able to adjust hydraulic ones, will leave me free to do some other chore on the bike.

It may be good enough.

Thumper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2007, 01:05:15 PM »
The appeal of the RE to many of us has been not only that it's a 500cc thumper, but also the very classic lines. In terms of appearance the Classics are pretty much the real deal. Bikes like the Electra X and Machismo have strayed a bit. The Electra X has been advertised as having a 'Classic 70's Style' and I have to say that it does remind me of the early Japanese attempts at cruisers (remember all the Yamaha 'Specials'?).

My guess is that RE will continue to have a model with very classic lines - despite the UCE engine. Remember the GB500 and the SR500. The SR500 was really closer to a dirt bike (of the late 70's) than the British singles it sought to recall; but it still brought forth the same feel and emotion. Both had UCEs.

I'm hoping they'll have a modern SRX-6 or even a Supermono!

I think the only place where they'll fall flat is to try to target the young whipper snappers. I just can't see the 20-somethings (or even 30-somethings) buying street singles - unless they are real gearheads.

Matt


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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2007, 01:32:03 PM »
There is a growing following of thumpers, particularly high capacity. Admittedly the guys buying are not much into anything other that gas and go bikes, but a gas and go Royal Enfield would sell to those who now buy Kawasaki KLR 650s and do something called a 'Jap Street Mod' on them. They turn it into a lower, meaner looking machine, with street tires, and no 'sport plastic' I have seen a couple of them that look odd, but the guys with them want a thumper, that is a street machine. They do the same with the smaller displacement machines too - I saw a Yamaha TW200 turned into a street only machine - the thing looked pretty good.  A huge street tire on the back, and painted blue.

If they will ride such a strange machine, I'd bet they would like a reliable RE - I intend to get one as soon as I can, but I can't decide if that would be instead of the January bike, or as well as.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:33:39 PM by IndianaBulleteer »
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Jefferson County, WA

Thumper

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2007, 04:50:13 PM »
There is a growing following of thumpers, particularly high capacity. Admittedly the guys buying are not much into anything other that gas and go bikes, but a gas and go Royal Enfield would sell to those who now buy Kawasaki KLR 650s and do something called a 'Jap Street Mod' on them. They turn it into a lower, meaner looking machine, with street tires, and no 'sport plastic' I have seen a couple of them that look odd, but the guys with them want a thumper, that is a street machine. They do the same with the smaller displacement machines too - I saw a Yamaha TW200 turned into a street only machine - the thing looked pretty good.  A huge street tire on the back, and painted blue.

If they will ride such a strange machine, I'd bet they would like a reliable RE - I intend to get one as soon as I can, but I can't decide if that would be instead of the January bike, or as well as.

That KLR keeps selling year after year - and keeps getting great reviews. The latest issue (November, I think) of either Motorcyclist or Cycle World mentions that it's the KLR's 25th anniversary. I remember seeing one at the Summit Point WV racetrack many many years ago that had been only slightly modified and was running against a field of streetbikes (this was before crotch rockets made street-legal racebikes available for the tracks). If I remember he competed real well even though he used motocross body-english. (Kind of had to since he had on stock handlebars and footpegs!)

RagMan

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2007, 09:18:09 PM »
I am seriously tempted by the 2008 KLR - it just looks great..  I may well end up with one in my stable.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

jest2dogs

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2008, 08:08:22 AM »
I have been cogitating on this thread for some time.

Granted, the Classic 500 Bullet has a following and it is steeped in traditional 50's era motorcycles.

Be grateful that one manufacturer, guided by a culture less bent on high technology, kept the traditional, "everyman's" bike alive.

That said, where would Royal Enfield be if it had not fallen to the Japanese invasion?
Would the marque have developed newer models incorporating new technology? Of course!

The reason the classic Bullet survived was that it had a built-in home market.  Now that the world has re-discovered Royal Enfield I think it behooves them to fit-in with the world market.  If the world needs less emissions and all the other manufacturers are following suit, why not RE?

Do not we wish them well in their endeavors? Or are we just being selfish, wanting to hang onto our precious 50's motorcycle?

As I hear it, the traditional Bullet is still being made for awhile, and parts will be available for a long time. Enjoy what is and try to be enthusiastic about a new version.

Personally, I love the opportunity to own a new/old bike in my 2006 500ES Classic. It's a kick. And I live in a rural enough environment where the bike works well.

But I want to venture farther and wider and I do not like any of the Japanese offerings.  They are way too over powered and space-agey for me. I rather like the looks of the Moto Guzzi California. Affording one is another issue.

Now if Royal Enfield makes a new "Model G" (or J, or whatever) with a modern engine with agreeable performance, why begrudge that? Have your cake and eat it too. Maybe we could refer to it as the new 1956 model??

Okay, Kevin, your turn. Sneak us some pics of this retro model that will "knock your socks off", so that those that are being dragged into the 21st century, kicking and screaming, will sit up and be encouraged that all is not lost.

-Jesse in P.A.
"Ennie" 2006 RE Bullet Classic 500
Commuter Scooter Commuted to "Otherside"
"Geezer" 2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 died and reborn as...
Yet, un-named, 2005 Moto Guzzi Breva 750

HRAB

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2008, 04:36:42 PM »
The "Home Market" will also require Euro 3 and soon Euro 4 emmisions standards. RE must either dance to the "tree huggers" beat, or go out of business.
jim
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fredgold52

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2008, 11:13:36 PM »
The "Home Market" will also require Euro 3 and soon Euro 4 emmisions standards. RE must either dance to the "tree huggers" beat, or go out of business.
jim

Yup, motor vehicle manufacturers all over the world are going to have to conform to the various standards placed in front of them.  I hope to goodness the AVL engine is able to do it for RE.  Enfield has demonstrated a commitment to the older style looks and feel a bike is supposed to have.  (although some of th pics of newer 350's have me a little worried)   If they can maintain the aesthetics and the feel of the man/machine interface as it is now and have an acceptable engine stuck in it with decent performance, seems like that's about all I can ask of them. 

2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

CHarte

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2008, 07:27:11 AM »
With all the experienced riders responding here, I feel sheepish as a newbie about chiming in.  I hope y'all don't mind.

"You can't walk in the same water of a river twice", as the old Buddist saying goes.  As many are stating above, RE has to evolve or go out of business, I believe.  We'll never have another Beatles, Led Zep, or Miles Davis.  All had to move on in one way or another.  I'm grateful we had them. 

I fully agree that it's a shame that the old thumpers are going away; personally, I solved this with my '69 restoration project, so I have that plus my new AVL.  I know it's an expensive approach, and won't suit everyone.

I don't mind that there is an EFI engine coming out to conform with modern standards.  Wish I had EFI on my fishing boat that has twin 5.7 v8's and get more efficiency!

From my viewpoint, I welcome all modern improvements as long as the aesthetic of the RE stays in tact so RE's can still be sold, and RE stays in business to make parts for the old bikes so we can restore 'em and keep 'em running.



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LotusSevenMan

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Re: End of a myth
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2008, 09:07:33 AM »
CHarte.
Led Zeppelin just played the O2 with a near a lineup to the original as possible so they ain't gone away!
RE won't either if they follow the ethos of a modern 'vintage' looking (not just retro) machine. How to encourage more 'youngsters to the RE clan? Not easy when I saw a brand new shiny, well built Honda 500/600 (didn't look that closely at the cc) but at an OTR price of 3,650 UKP. About the same price a 500 Enfield sells here over the pond. Honda reliability and dealer network and etc etc speaky loudly.
What's a young man or woman going to do whos only mechanical knowledge is turning up the room stat? Which are they going to buy?  ::)

I am a recent convert (last year) but had messed with mechanical stuff for years (I'm nearly 49 years young) so love the RE but am not sure about the real younger riders.................................!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin