Author Topic: Another One Bites The Dust! (Read 3668 times)

Marrtyn · « **on:** May 30, 2009, 12:35:20 PM »

Just when things were getting better after 516 miles on my Efi (DL). Since March I have been pottering around on my bike -getting it run in --and now when on a longer planned run of about 200 miles, and after just 33 miles the bikes failes. What have I done to deserve this I ask myself?
The bike eventually ground to a halt after erratic running and displaying a red light on the MIL. The bike then would refuse to start, no initial red light or whirring sound from the fuel pump,as is normally the case, and so had to have the breakdown wagon return it to the dealer.
The symptoms as far as I can see are fuel starvation/ECU problems but I am only guessing. Perhaps blocked fuel filter or doggy fuel pump. Its now in the lap of the gods.
Must say I am very much "browned off" with this situation at the moment- this being a new bike and all that.
Will have to wait and see what the dealer comes up with.

r80rt · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:38:36 PM »

Oh man, I'm sorry about that, I hope it's something simple and easy.

ace.cafe · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:09:00 PM »

Sounds like something relatively minor to me.
The bike did whatever it could do. It lit the MIL light, and if you knew the indicator sequence for the light, it might have told you what the fault was.
Not that you could fix it on the road, anyway, but it might have told you where the fault was.

Thankfully, the warrantee is in place, and this type of thing is exactly why they have warrantees.
I hope you get the bike back soon.
Theoretically, if the dealer knows the MIL sequence, and has a part on hand, he should be able to get it right back on the road in no time.

doomed1 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2009, 03:25:18 PM »

hmm, rough break. hope mine takes well to the one month break in i'm going to have to put the bike through (it'll get the real test after around late august with a trip up to Vermont from Jersey).

about how long should i run it before breaking it in?

geoffbaker · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2009, 03:54:06 PM »

Doesn't the manual somewhere list the MIL codes? I would think it should... what's the point in having user-accessible diagnostics if they don't let you know what they are?

Marrtyn · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2009, 04:20:24 AM »

Quote from: geoffbaker on May 30, 2009, 03:54:06 PM

Doesn't the manual somewhere list the MIL codes? I would think it should... what's the point in having user-accessible diagnostics if they don't let you know what they are?

Hi Geoff
This is the most annoying thing about the whole episode. I thought a sequential flashing red light may have hinted at the problem. But the thing is there was no flashing light in the end just a poor old (new) engine turning over but not firing up. It was as though it was starved of fuel or no spark. My opinion is that it was fuel starvation.
Problem page in handbook says for "engine starts, but runs irregularly & stops" = faulty fuel supply , check pump, filter blocked. If the oil strainer previously found was anything to go on, I'm suspecting crud in the pump/filter. This would obviously be from the manufacturer. Will have to waite and see what the dealer finds.
I'm as sick as the proverbial parrot.
Regards

REpozer · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2009, 11:35:11 AM »

Computer controll engine, is not an end all for trouble shooting. You will not get a "light' for a verity of possible malfunctions ie bad TCI, fuel pump not pumping, oil leaks, loose wires.You still need to go back to basics, then check codes. Oh this works for cars too.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2009, 01:36:34 PM »

Quote from: REpozer on May 31, 2009, 11:35:11 AM

Computer controll engine, is not an end all for trouble shooting. You will not get a "light' for a verity of possible malfunctions IE bad TCI, fuel pump not pumping, oil leaks, loose wires.You still need to go back to basics, then check codes. Oh this works for cars too.

Can't denie what you are saying REpozer. BUT, the last paragraph of the sales brochure quotes
"with the next generation of Royal Enfields you can experience pure motorcycling as it was intended, with the added reassurance of reliability, but authentic, 500cc single."
This is a new bike remember.

r80rt · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2009, 01:49:17 PM »

Hang in there Marrtyn, It sucks to have a new bike down for repairs. I'm sorry it had to be your bike, but finding the problem will improve the breed for the rest of us. I hope you are back in the saddle soon.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:29:30 PM »

In order for the self diagnostic system to be of any use it must first be deployed. The procedure for that is to find the "test pin" wire and ground it out. This wire is just a short piece of wire from the ECU with a female plug on the end. You can put an alligator clip on it and then ground it. When that is done the MIL will start blinking in code to tell you what has failed. I thought the codes were published in the owners manual but I COULD VERY WELL BE MISTAKEN and I do not have one in front of me. I have posted the codes below however.
However REpozer makes a very important point. The diagnostic feature is only part of the solution. Very simple basic theory also needs to be taken into account. For example you report no fuel pump noise. That would cause me to look at the fuses and connections before I did anything else. The other thing that could cause that trouble would be the roll-over sensor which cuts off fuel flow. However these are pretty simple "Bullet proof" devices and it is not the most likely culprit. Of course the fuel pump itself could be bad which is easy to test. I am not aware of any failed pumps worldwide, but that may not mean anything if yours has failed. For the filter to have plugged a very large amount of stuff would have to be in the fuel. The filter is quite tall and has a lot of surface area. You would also most likely still hear the pump running. One clue is that you did get a MIL indication. This means that a code was tripped which should be quite easy to sort out.
It will be interest to see what the outcome is. Of course what is of academic interest to me is a huge pain in the a** to you. Please keep us all posted. I have posted the codes below

MIL BLINK CONTENT
Engine will start but not perform to its potential. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 0 SHORT 6 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 0 SHORT 9 ManifoldAbsolute Pressure (MAP) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 1 Engine oil Temperature (TE) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 7 O2 Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 5 O2 Sensor heater circuit malfunctioning

Engine will NOT Start but will crank. MIL will glow continuousLONG 1 SHORT 5 Rollover Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 3 Injector circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 7 Ignition Coil circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 1 Fuel Pump circuit malfunctioning
LONG 6 SHORT 6 Crankshaft position circuit malfunctioning
Testing Procedure using the Test pin in the vehicle

UncleErnie · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:14:34 PM »

What's a "MIL light"?

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:30:59 PM »

Sorry "Malfunction Indicator Lamp" commonly known as your "check engine light"

JMHAZ · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2009, 10:25:32 AM »

Kevin, there is no list of MIL codes in my G5 manual. Thanks for posting them; I was beginning to wonder if the user-diagnostic capability was only a rumor.

ace.cafe · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:04:27 AM »

I think threads like this are good in several ways.

Particularly because it helps people to understand that just because a product is made to be highly reliable, it doesn't mean that nothing is ever going to happen to it.
There is no brand of motorcycle that is immune to warrantee repairs, and that is why every brand has a warrantee department. Even the "vaunted" Japanese motorcycle dealer shops see warrantee failures very often.

It's always disappointing to have a breakdown, but we all know that it's a possibility, and we can only rely then on a good service experience to help us get over the impact of reality on our dreams.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #14 on:** June 02, 2009, 02:54:37 PM »

Thanks for all your concerns,Gents, and in particular thanks Kevin for the list of MIL blink codes, -no they are not in my ,manual either, but they soon will be now! I must say your level of expertise is very helpfull -I'm not quite sure were we on this side of the pond would be without this forum and all the advise given by its contributors.

The bike is not yet fixed ( my dealer has limitations on labour resources), but it is now thought that somewere in the electrics there is a loose spade connector, thereby not being able to signal to the MIL/ECU or what ever?? -hence currently no blinking red light. So at the end of day 3, still waiting patiently and slowly climbing out of this bed of self pity.
Regards

r80rt · « **Reply #15 on:** June 02, 2009, 04:22:45 PM »

Hang on, it won't be to long till you are riding again.

JamesC5 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2009, 04:33:28 AM »

Hope you get it back soon... I'm almost a month without mine.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2009, 07:32:37 AM »

Hi James
I have been following your posts throughout.
I really sympathise with you. I must say I wouldn't be very happy with what I have read about with your situation. I can't believe that they have forgotten some bits out of the gearbox. It would be inclined to ask for some reassurance that no long term damage has occurred. Not too sure what has happened, but I would imagine, reading what you have said, that at some stage, just before you lost transmission, the gears must have been running on a forever reducing tooth width!! I don't know,- only a thought, I could be wrong.
Anyway hope you soon get it back and that all will be well in the land of Enfield
Regards

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2009, 07:54:01 AM »

Not sure how it works with the Enfield. With Ural, If your bike is in the shop more than 14 days, your warranty is extended by that amount of time.

For all the excitement of the C5, I wonder how many riders are telling themselves they'd better wait a year before considering one?

UncleErnie · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:32:41 AM »

That is exactly why I have an '09 AVL;
at least I had a good idea of what I was getting into.

UK-Classics · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:30:30 PM »

Quote from: Blue Ridge Wheeltor on June 03, 2009, 07:54:01 AM

For all the excitement of the C5, I wonder how many riders are telling themselves they'd better wait a year before considering one?

Yes - I was going to put my order in but delayed after I heard about James's problems - wanted to see how WS handled the situation.

Had a test ride of the guzzi classic C7 the other day - lovely bike but I've decided on a 2nd hand AVL or classic for this year - I'm sure things will get sorted out soon,

r80rt · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2009, 04:22:12 PM »

I have money down on a C5 and have no worries about it. I think RE has done their homework on these new models.

Kevin Mahoney · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:24:39 PM »

I agree with Ace that these type of threads are quite healthy. As far as warranty goes remember that these bikes have a full two year warranty as opposed to one year with all previous bikes. Another thing is that the factory literally has a team of people poised to deal with issues as they arise. I can tell you with 100% certainty that your problem has been looked at and discussed at the factory because I alerted them. I can also tell you with 100% certainty that REM will stand behind these new bikes come hell or high water. One thing that I think is unique with Royal Enfield is that it is such a small company that it is not unusual that individual issues are known at the highest levels. I guess I can really only speak for the US but we are doing our utmost to see that every last one of these new bikes delivers what it promises. We have had good luck with the G-5's to date and the C-5's which we don't have yet use the same platform so we don't expect issues. Is it possible that things will arise? Absolutely, the key is how they are handled. Hopefully you will have your bike back soon and this will be a distant memory. I can tell you that if Mike at Watsonian fixed your bike it will be done right and with great care.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:00:33 PM »

Quote from: Marrtyn on June 02, 2009, 02:54:37 PM

Thanks for all your concerns,Gents, and in particular thanks Kevin for the list of MIL blink codes, -no they are not in my ,manual either, but they soon will be now! I must say your level of expertise is very helpfull -I'm not quite sure were we on this side of the pond would be without this forum and all the advise given by its contributors.

The bike is not yet fixed ( my dealer has limitations on labour resources), but it is now thought that somewere in the electrics there is a loose spade connector, thereby not being able to signal to the MIL/ECU or what ever?? -hence currently no blinking red light. So at the end of day 3, still waiting patiently and slowly climbing out of this bed of self pity.
Regards

So folks, here we are, after 8 working days at the dealers, my bike is finally fixed, and up and running.
No it wasn't fuel starvation etc. as I thought originally. Quite simply, yes, it was an electrical fault, and simpler still, it was nothing more than a very loose spade connection, not sure were as yet, but somewere, were power wasn't communicating with the ECU/MIL. Funny it had taken 500+ miles to come loose, and I suppose you could say 8 days to find it!!! ( I do know the reason why, suffice it for me to say, service,-or lack of it)

Right, so now I am back into running in Phase II.
I must say I am feeling very sorry and upset with all the trouble that JamesC5 is going through, and now Singhg5, --and yes Watsonians and any other dealer should be communicating with there customers.
This has put a dark shadow over my head, thinking "is my gearbox next", and could I have the same pantomime.
Tomorrow I am going to ring Watsonians and see, -the thing is, will they answer the phone?

Marrtyn · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:31:39 AM »

Well as I thought, my bike is in for a recall. Just nicely got running again.
Now at just over 600 miles, and at 600 miles the bike seemed to have a new lease of life, meaning it seemed to know that running in was nearly over,(perhaps there is a built in chip that improves performance as the miles increase Ha! Ha!
Any way have been told by my dealer not to ride it

clubman · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2009, 07:06:57 AM »

Thanks, Marrtyn. Hope all goes well with your recall and you are back riding soon.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #26 on:** June 26, 2009, 08:25:29 AM »

Well it is now June 26th. Its now 16 days since the recall (as far as I'm concerned)
I haven't heared a thing from anybody, apart from 2 occasions since I made a couple of calls. Every day I look to see if my postman delivers this letter that we are expecting to receive.
Now I know that a lot of people are saying you must be patient and that these things take time, but you know, how long do you have to wait, how long will your patience last.
I think this is the trouble with us Brits., we don't jump the line, we generally don't make a fuss, -- this stiff upper lip thing,-- is it really doing us any good. Ah well sorry about the moan (one thing we(me) are good at ),-back to watching the letterbox.

JamesC5, you must be really pulling your hair out by now, its not as though they have to transport your bike, as I understand, they have it!

r80rt · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:37:06 AM »

James, post some pictures of the 125 when you get a chance, please.

JamesC5 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »

Just got back!

Pics in the gallery

J

r80rt · « **Reply #29 on:** June 27, 2009, 01:18:42 PM »

It's wonderful! I want one badly

Ice · « **Reply #30 on:** June 27, 2009, 01:49:22 PM »

Obviousley I nor any one else has a time machine to go back in time and experience motorcycling in the era of rockers and ton up boys.
The closest we can get to living that experience is right now. RE discovering all things Bullet learned and lost over the last fifty years.

My take is the UCE riders are at the tip of the new cusp much like the early first generation Bullet riders were. Gaining experience with new things UCE. A REnaissance if you will.

When others come along in the future with UCE related questions it will be you who post the replies to their posts.

For you lucky few, these truly are the good old days.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #31 on:** July 01, 2009, 09:53:19 AM »

Quote from: Marrtyn on June 26, 2009, 08:25:29 AM

Well it is now June 26th. Its now 16 days since the recall (as far as I'm concerned)
I haven't heared a thing from anybody, apart from 2 occasions since I made a couple of calls. Every day I look to see if my postman delivers this letter that we are expecting to receive.
Now I know that a lot of people are saying you must be patient and that these things take time, but you know, how long do you have to wait, how long will your patience last.
I think this is the trouble with us Brits., we don't jump the line, we generally don't make a fuss, -- this stiff upper lip thing,-- is it really doing us any good. Ah well sorry about the moan (one thing we(me) are good at ),-back to watching the letterbox.

JamesC5, you must be really pulling your hair out by now, its not as though they have to transport your bike, as I understand, they have it!

Yippee, Have finally received my letters from WS regarding to getting "cracking" with my gearbox. Have now just got to wait for my dealer to collect, and WS to ship and put right, and return --and I could be back on the road.
How long is all of this going to take? Groan!!! Still must keep positive.Therefore not long.

r80rt · « **Reply #32 on:** July 01, 2009, 04:34:15 PM »

Marrtyn, thats Great! I'm happy for you and I can't wait to start reading your posts on how good that bike is

Cabo Cruz · « **Reply #33 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:04:55 PM »

Br. Marrtyn, I'm delighted to see that you're turning the corner on this matter... congratulations!

Marrtyn · « **Reply #34 on:** July 04, 2009, 03:46:49 AM »

Thanks for your kind thoughts, Cabo and r80rt, my bike was collected on friday by the dealer, after a certain ammount of badgering.
$:-\$ How long it will sit there -who knows.??

r80rt · « **Reply #35 on:** July 04, 2009, 06:55:00 AM »

Hang in there Marrtyn, good things come to those who wait. I remember how bad it was waiting for three months to get the magneto rebuilt for my old '40 BSA, then weeks for a gear box from Holland, more weeks for a Speedometer from Scotland and a clutch from England. But when I had it together I completely forgot about the time it took and enjoyed my reward. I've owned a lot of bikes and the grin factor on the C5 is off the scale! I waited 52 years for this bike, it's worth the wait.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2009, 03:33:13 AM »

Just on my way to pick up my bike after the recall; after a total of 5 weeks, laid up!
I must say after reading other postings regarding the condition of the bikes, after the work has been done, is leaving me a mite worried.
Will report after a good look/see.

r80rt · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2009, 06:12:42 AM »

I'm betting it will be fine. can't wait to get some ride reports from you.

Marrtyn · « **Reply #38 on:** July 26, 2009, 06:40:25 AM »

THE BOYS DONE GOOD
Picked up the bike from my dealer, and found it OK. No scratches/scuffs/chips, just a slight covering of workshop dust. A good hour with a duster and a little polish on the bright work and it is back to normal.
I have not riden it far as yet (due to family commitments) but initial findings is that it is OK, and strangely sounds much quieter on tick over,- engine itself, not exhaust note,- than it was before it went in. So all in all very pleased. Thank you Watsonians.
Will report further after run in a few more miles

r80rt · « **Reply #39 on:** July 26, 2009, 07:47:26 AM »

Glad to hear it! Now put some miles on that baby.

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Author Topic: Another One Bites The Dust! (Read 3668 times)

geoffbaker