HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

Oregon Coast Trip


in
Members Rides

42 Guests, 4 Users (2 Hidden)
Roeland, IronHead
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2014, 03:30:44 AM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?  (Read 3817 times)

LotusSevenMan

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: 0
  • ...._[:]@==<
http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/best-value-electronic-ignition-p-94.html



I wonder how you time it as these instructions say under part 3:-
"Start engine and adjust the ignition timing for best performance and efficiency"

Brilliant Batman, but how?  ::)
I have a TDC finder (but no degree disc).
Anyone give me a straight forward procedure please?
Thanks!!!!!!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Kevin Mahoney

  • Administrator
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2310
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 07:29:46 PM »
You can do this by hand or use the "scientific" method.  The motion of the magnet in the distributor rotor moving past the pickup coil is what causes the spark plug to fire, so you cannot set it statically. With this ignition when you set it according to the instructions, it  will position it good enough to start. Then adjust it so it runs well and start experimenting. Essentially you want it as advanced as you can get it with no "pinging" under heavy load or kickback when kick starting. The scientific way to set it is to attach the degree wheel to the rotor of your alternator, find TDC and then fix a piece of coat hanger or something similar to the engine so that it points at zero on the degree wheel. Start the engine, rev it up and set the advance at speed around 32 degrees. Once set it should never change. This is easier said than done as it is a hassle to set up the degree wheel and pointer. The "ear" method is pretty good at the end of the day. If you have modified your engine at all we reccomend putting in the "stronger distributor spring" as the stock ignition advance unit goes to full advance at fairly low RPM. More about them is here http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/distributor-heavier-advance-spring-p-7050.html
One other thing to keep in mind is to ignore that instructions when it tells you to remove a wire from the negative side of the coil and to attach a wire from the control unit to the coil. Instead leave those coil wires alone and connect the wire from the control  unit to the wire that used to power the points. This way the kill switch remains in the system for your protection. In many countires there is no kill switch so the instructions are geared for that condition. Once you get this unit installed it has proven to be very reliable in service.

Vince

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 07:50:56 PM »

These cheap systems are crude, but work OK if you take time to dial it in. Use your TDC tool as if for points, one mark before TDC. Adjust the pulse coil so that the edge of the sensor is exactly even with the leading edge of the trigger on the rotor. This will get your timing close enough to start the bike. Warm the bike up. While running, moe the timing plate left or right until it runs best. Tighten the hold down screws. Test ride. Re-adjust as necessary. Thats as good as it gets. Good luck!











LotusSevenMan

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: 0
  • ...._[:]@==<
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2007, 02:49:35 AM »
Thanks chaps!  ;)

"Essentially you want it as advanced as you can get it with no "pinging" under heavy load or kickback when kick starting".

I understand the pinging (pinking, preignition etc due to too much advance). It is that bit about kick back I want to avoid for :- a) the ankle, but more importantly b) the sprague starter gear taking a bit of this on my 500ES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

mtrude

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2007, 06:37:09 AM »
Hello, I found this on another site,  (myenfieldbullet) its an electronic ignition kit? http://www.hobbytron.com/vk2543.html. Looks interesting, if your good at this kind of thing.

LotusSevenMan

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: 0
  • ...._[:]@==<
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2007, 12:53:15 PM »
When I had a Lotus Esprit S3 car I built an electronic ignition system from a kit that used the existing points just as a switch so the points would last forever basically. It boosted the spark and made it a far better starting car. It also had two other advatages in that if the unit were to fail (it never did but......) you could flick a switch on the unit and revert to the std points/condensor set-up for getting you home. It also had a small bulb that was used for setting up the timing built in. All in all a good system!!!!
I have another one here in kit form now but being set up for 4 cylinders it won't work for Bullets.  :(
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Kevin Mahoney

  • Administrator
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2310
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2007, 01:25:14 PM »
If the spark is too far advanced the engine may kick back when you kick start it. A painful thing. If you ignition is adjusted correctly the bike will NOT kick back. I think we are making too much of this.......If you adjust this unit per the instructions and then gradually advance the setting by load testing it you will not have any trouble. The best part is that once it is done it is done!! This is a good economical unit and the customers that have it like it. The more expensive Power Arc unit is also a very good unit. Since it is triggered optically instead of magnetically the timing is a snap. You merely install the unit, adjust the backing plate until an LED on the unit lites and you are finished. It has the added advantage of having it's own advance curve built into it.
http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/power-electronic-ignition-p-7013.html

LotusSevenMan

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: 0
  • ...._[:]@==<
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2007, 01:33:14 PM »
Thanks Kevin.
Alternatives always appreciated!!!  :)
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

RagMan

  • Bulleteer, Uralist &
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 819
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2007, 02:59:55 PM »
That is the alternative I need to get.. I am proof that kick backs hurt..  I thought hard about selling the bike, then decided against it. I like it too much, maybe when I have bought a ES version I may change my mind again.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

dogbone

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 12:00:03 PM »
150 miles from home, a couple o brews on your breath, engine dies... up the creek. Thats why I removed the Boyer that came with my used Enfield and replaced the good ole trustworthy points.
99 Enfield Bullet 535
a man isn't drunk,if he can lie on the floor without hanging on

gemini641

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 10:31:23 PM »
Yes, and it works just fine. As everyone has said, be REAL careful about getting it too far advanced. I kept jacking around with mine ('05 Bullet Deluxe)  until sure enough, BANG! Out went the Sprague clutch...spent most of the summer repairing it but that's because I was overly cautious about doing the work myself. I can now remove and install the primary chain case and Sprague clutch unit in my sleep.

What I finally did for timing was use the degree wheel and marked rotor at 0 at TDC and stator at 32 degrees. Started it and used a timing light to adjust the plate to exactly 32 then backed off a couple of degrees to be safe. All this was suggested to me by Larry and Matt on this forum. By the way, I suggest using a drop of epoxy or other glue to hold the little plastic mag cap that rotates. Put a drop on it just before you put it on and line up the mag spot on the rotating piece with the mag spot on the pickup. As Kevin said, this will give it a good enough setup to start the bike.

Timing is right on now and she hasn't backfired or kicked back since.

And once again, thanks to Kevin, Tait, Jim, and Tim at CMW for all their advice and speedy parts service. You guys are great!!

Tom


RagMan

  • Bulleteer, Uralist &
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 819
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 11:55:44 PM »
It would have been so nice to have had this thread around, 8 or 9 weeks ago. I am three quarters repaired, soon I will doing the physio exercises to get strength back. It would have been so nice to have had this knowledge prior to the breaking my foot. :)
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

LotusSevenMan

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: 0
  • ...._[:]@==<
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2007, 03:55:11 AM »
I have just refound in my workshop (OK, kitchen drawer!!!) a kit I bought some time back from eBay. It is an Electronize Design Total Energy Discharge ignition system. I built one seventeen years ago for a Lotus Esprit S3 and it transformed the starting. It basically uses the points as a low current switcher so they just last forever.
Now seeing one on eBay a while back I thought I'd just get it as they are no longer available. It just sat around gathering dust!!!
Now I wondered recently if it'd do for the Bullet. Built it the other night and finished it off the following day once I bought 5 x diodes that were missing! Grrrrrrrr. >:(
 
The main problem is it's a bit bulky for a bike being 4 3/4" long, 2 1/2" wide and 1.5" tall. Fine for its designed use on a car though.
The reason I fancied it was :- a) It has a switch to go from the boosted electronic ignition back to the std points set up and b) it has a built in timing LED light! Like the idea that if it fails you're not stranded. Mind you the other unit I built is still working all these years on so...........  8)
I have the Army Bullet so it might get 'lost' in an ammo box or a pannier etc. Need to try it out but it might be a good addition??????
As seen below (Double A battery is for size reference only).

Found that it will fit easily under the solo saddle and being black hardly shows so will try for it there!!!!

« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 02:25:28 PM by LotusSevenMan »
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Kevin Mahoney

  • Administrator
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2310
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2007, 07:14:17 PM »
Forever is a big concept. While you are right when you say that this device will lower the wear to the ignition points themselves (because it uses a very low amperage probably lower voltage current to trip the unit) the rubbing block of the points will still wear. If you set them exactly, then time the bike, in theory if you re-gap them to the same spot when they wear you will not have to retime the engine. This type of device was failry popular back in the day when electronic ignitions were new.

dogbone

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Karma: 0
Re: Has anyone fitted one of these budget electronic ignition systems?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2007, 11:05:39 AM »
lotus 7     I had a Knightkit cd ignition on a 65 Mustang dual point distributor. I went from points & plugs every 3ooo miles, to 6000 on the plugs and 20,ooo on the points! It worked well, and like your kit, it had a bypass.   But    I think points reliability are the best ;)
99 Enfield Bullet 535
a man isn't drunk,if he can lie on the floor without hanging on