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Author Topic: Traditionalist  (Read 5121 times)

RagMan

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Traditionalist
« on: October 17, 2007, 02:50:24 AM »
Today, I went into the local Honda dealer, to get prices for a friend, and got to chatting with the bored salesman. Got round to talking about my bikes, and I told him I have an Enfield, and he looked shocked, and turned to go, muttering 'ah, a traditionalist' 

It was like the presence of an Enfield in my stable, made me something not to talk to. :o

I overheard him pushing another bike - the Honda everso big crotch rocket thing - 'Oh, we never see these, used.' This he said, with a smile on his face.  I had heard the explanation as to why there were no used ones, from an insurance agent friend of mine.

Something my friend heard, whilst getting her endorsement put on her licence.  'We don't usually see people getting this endorsement - mostly they just get a permit, and renew it when it expires. '  So rare, indeed, was the adding of the endorsement, that the office had difficulty in getting it right. . .

Armed with that little snippet, I called my friend, the insurance agent.  'Oh, Yes, ' he said, when I told him of the comments I had heard. ' We void nearly every policy where a powerful sport bike is involved in a wreck -  the rider is usually not licensed. The dealer will finance a bike, for them, without checking to see if they have a motorcycle endorsement.'

I think, I would rather be a traditionalist, than not. It seems, we traditionalists are more responsible.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

dave48

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 08:24:57 AM »
Apologies for language difference, but what are "endorsements" and "permits"? Here in UK an "endorsement" is the common term for a record of convictions for driving offences, noted on your Driving Licence.
I'm guessing that a "permit" is what we call a licence? Is an "endorsement" an addition that allows a m'cycle?
Sounds as if your insurance requirements are rather different also!

RagMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 01:45:03 PM »
Endorsement is the extra qualification on a license, like motorcycle, or lorry etc.

Permit, is provisional license. 
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

luoma

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 03:31:46 PM »
Sounds like the salesman's idea of a traditionalist is someone who rides for the sheer enjoyment of motorcycling, rather than buy an overpowered race bike as a fashion accessory. Whenever I hear or read of a motorcycle fatality, it is usually some guy, first-time rider, who purchased a crotch rocket because his friends have one and he thinks he'll look cool on it.

I've ridden my share of fast bikes, and liked them, but even then, I rode for the joy of it. I'm glad I'm older now (and a traditionalist). I heard that when a young man rides, he picks a destination and just goes. When an old man rides, he picks a direction and just goes.

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 04:35:48 PM »
I heard that when a young man rides, he picks a destination and just goes. When an old man rides, he picks a direction and just goes.

Very true words here!

Regards, Foggy
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Fortiter Et Fideliter

RagMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 04:56:18 PM »
That is my main difference - I have never been the guy with a destination, more the guy who rides forever. The journey is always better than the arrival.  Since my teens, I have just climbed on and gone.  I very rarely get to the original idea place, usually something looks nicer, be it a rain cloud I am avoiding, or a road out of the direct sunlight. I am proud to be the traditionalist I am classified as - the Bullet is an extension of my wanderlust - It goes where ever I point it, doesn't need to be blacktop, doesn't need to be a road even. Same with all the early British bikes I have had - they didn't need the road either.  Crotch Rockets do not do well on dirt, and forget taking a cruiser - they are a pure dog to ride on gravel.  I have ridden a heavy Harley on a firm dirt road, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Around here, 90% of the roads are dirt, and they transition between dirt and hard with no warning. Often I see motorcyclists out for the ride, slamming everything on, because the good road they were riding, turned to dirt. The Bullet just hunkers down a bit, spreads her tires a little wider, and keeps on going. She may wag her tail a bit, but that is just to let me know she knows the road changed, and never more than once.

I cannot wait to get my foot mended, the new ignition fitted, a good carb tune, the disk brake fitted, and go for a ride..  I spent time a couple of days ago, in the barn, and just hung out with my bike..
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

dave48

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 06:33:30 PM »
"Around here, 90% of the roads are dirt, ...."

Can I live there, please, can I, can I, please.....???

LJRead

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 08:13:52 PM »
"I cannot wait to get ...the disc brake fitted"  Traditionalist?

RagMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2007, 08:36:37 PM »
Yes, traditionalist.. I have the tradition of enjoying stopping. I am not, and never have been someone who can restore a vehicle to it's design parameter - it may have a seat I don't like, or the power may be wrong, or the tires suck..  With my Bullet, the front brake is worthless - it stops, but it takes one heck of a long time doing it - the disk brake is a good system, safer than drum, and does nothing to detract from my enjoyment of my bike.

Some folk like to ride around bereft the benefit of modern ideas..  Fine by me, go for it, just don't mind if I don't agree - the disk brake makes the bike even safer, just as changing the ignition to a fool proof electronic - I was, until recently, dead set against electronic ignitions. It is strange how long term pain will change your mind.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

deejay

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2007, 11:49:20 PM »
Yes, traditionalist.. I have the tradition of enjoying stopping. I am not, and never have been someone who can restore a vehicle to it's design parameter - it may have a seat I don't like, or the power may be wrong, or the tires suck..  With my Bullet, the front brake is worthless - it stops, but it takes one heck of a long time doing it - the disk brake is a good system, safer than drum, and does nothing to detract from my enjoyment of my bike.

Some folk like to ride around bereft the benefit of modern ideas..  Fine by me, go for it, just don't mind if I don't agree - the disk brake makes the bike even safer, just as changing the ignition to a fool proof electronic - I was, until recently, dead set against electronic ignitions. It is strange how long term pain will change your mind.

Hey before you swap for a disk have you tried adjusting the front drum? Mine was set up from the dealer so well that I could do stoppies on it if I wanted. I've adjusted mine once and they still work almost as well. I think there are instructions in the snidal manual for angling the pads in a way for most effective grip.


LJRead

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 01:11:36 AM »
IndianaBulleteer - You are alright, in my book, a little inconsistent maybe, but who of us isn't?

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 01:19:10 AM »
Yep, my front drum brake is as good as a single disc brake.  

And has no master or slave hydraulic cylinders to start leaking at the worst possible time.  Or pads that lock up solid after getting ready for Spring riding.  Or high pressure hoses that weather crack and need replacements so they won't burst on a panic stop.  Or accidently spilling hydraulic fluid on a beautiful painted gas tank.

All the above has happened to me over the years.  I'd rather just worry about a cable and end ferrules.

Regards, Foggy
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Fortiter Et Fideliter

RagMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 03:48:53 AM »
Stop scaring me guys, I already have the disc brake kit.. :)

Hey Dave 48 - another strange language thing.. If we get a ticket, it is a citation - and will cost money..  what you call an endorsement.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

LotusSevenMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2007, 06:29:35 AM »
IB.
Yep, an endorsement on our licence is something NOT to have in the UK.
We get points. Three points and sixty ukp (120 US Dollars) fine for speeding. Four of those and your license goes for a period of time set by the courts normally six months.
See below. Is it as bad Stateside?


 Totting Up Driving Ban
12 Penalty Points

 
The penalty points system was introduced in an attempt to provide the Courts with another method of punishing motorists apart from the original fine and driving ban option. In this way, the Court could endorse a person's driving licence with the number of points it felt appropriate, given the severity of the offence. It also allowed the introduction of a system that was able to monitor the effect the punishments were having, resulting in the potential to ban motorists who continued to commit driving offences on a regular basis.
   
How does the totting up procedure work?
The number of penalty points varies on the nature of the motoring offence. The more serious the driving offence, the higher the number of points. The minimum number of points for the most minor offences is 2 points, whilst offences such as failing to comply with a traffic light carry a non–discretionary 3 points and other offences have a range of points which allows the Magistrates to vary the punishment depending on the severity of the incident. For example, speeding ranges from 3 to 6 points. Speeding offences dealt with by Fixed Penalty Notices will have a standard 3 points whereas more serious speeding cases which are dealt with at Court can result in up to 6 points being endorsed on the convicted driver's licence. Another common offence, driving without due care, carries a range of 3–9 points, again dependent on the circumstances of the case.

Should a driver reach 12 points in a 3 year period, the Court guidelines are an automatic disqualification of 6 months should be imposed.

Totting up disqualifications can arise where:
A party has been convicted of several offences over the course of a 3 year period (or has committed the offences within a 3 year period); or


Where 2 or more offences have been committed at the same time and upon conviction the number of points endorsed on the licence amount to 12 or more. Consequently, a driver with a clean licence who commits 2 offences that both carry 6 or more points could face a totting up disqualification if convicted of both offences. 
 
 
How long does a totting up ban last for?
The mandatory period of disqualification for a totting up ban is 6 months. Some Courts do exercise discretion and there are examples of 3 months being imposed but in theory, if you reach 12 points, and cannot convince the Court that you should be allowed to keep your licence, you are off the road for 6 months.
 
How long do penalty points/offences remain on my driving licence?
Points are valid for 3 years from the date of conviction but cannot be removed from your licence until their fourth anniversary. If you amass 12 points in any 3 year period, you face disqualification.

 :(
   
 
 
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RagMan

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Re: Traditionalist
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2007, 12:54:02 PM »
I don't know the penalty system, I have never fallen foul of it. But I have a a bunch of endorsements. My license is a class A, with Motorcycles - on the back it says:

1: any vehicle: or combination of vehicles, over 26,000 pounds, except motorcycles.
2: Tank trailers, double and triple trailers.
3: Two & Three wheel motorcycles.

Being a 'HGV' license, I have stricter restrictions on alcohol in my blood - but can get less penalty for speeding. Here an HGV license  is called a CDL, class A is for articulated, (semi) trailers.

When I lived in Britain, I drove under a Forces License, so never had to do the pointless driving test there. I had friends who had to do it, and failed ten times before finally being able to drive bad enough to pass the thing.

When I traveled in Britain as a child and youth, I did not have a license, and never got caught.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA