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Author Topic: What do you think this is?  (Read 2543 times)

Rusty

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What do you think this is?
« on: August 15, 2009, 11:53:29 AM »
Thought I'd give the not so old girl an oil & filter change having done 500 miles since the recall trauma.

The gauze filter was stuffed with what looked like hair and gasket goo. The magnetic drain plugs were covered in the usual swarf and the main one was accompanied by this.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp296/Rusty854/C5/IMG_3644.jpg
http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp296/Rusty854/C5/IMG_3645.jpg

It looks too roughly finished to be a bearing surface although one side is marked, maybe part of a tab washer?

My engine internals are trying to escape through the oil drain hole, what do you think I should do, leave it or have a word with my dealer?

Edit: The scale is in cm/mm and no the tape measure didn't come out of the engine ;D.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 12:03:55 PM by Rusty »

ace.cafe

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 12:26:20 PM »
I have no earthly idea what that is.

However, it would cause me some concern, and I think a question to the dealer might be in order.
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Ice

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 03:14:30 PM »
 That aint right. I would definitely be concerned.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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r80rt

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 03:26:53 PM »
It don't look good, but it's not neccessarily bad, I'd have it checked out by your dealer as soon as possible to be sure.
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Marrtyn

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 11:25:35 AM »
Sure is curios.
Is it steel or is it alloy?-- and do  any of the edges look to have a broken finish to them?

1Blackwolf1

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 12:37:30 PM »
  Whatever it is I would suspect it to be bad.  I'd call the dealer quick and ask him if he left something behind.  Will.
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2009, 02:53:28 PM »
That's part of the cage on the drive side roller bearing.
Bet ya a buck it's a NBC bearing.
CJ
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 06:25:05 PM by t120rbullet »
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ERC

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2009, 04:51:31 PM »
Looks like CJ is correct. Not good.   ERC
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Rusty

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 04:53:36 AM »
That's part of the cage on the drive side roller bearing.
Bet ya a buck it's a NBC bearing.
CJ

Blimey, thanks T120. I didnít expect it to be so readily identifiable but it does look the same as those fragments in your picture.

I think I remember a post about main bearings but could you just give a brief account of the origins of your picture? Was it from a UCE having the gearbox recall work done? I need to make sure Iíve got my facts right.

t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 05:58:48 AM »
Blimey, thanks T120. I didnít expect it to be so readily identifiable but it does look the same as those fragments in your picture.

I think I remember a post about main bearings but could you just give a brief account of the origins of your picture? Was it from a UCE having the gearbox recall work done? I need to make sure Iíve got my facts right.


Yes the pic of the bearing was of of a REcall engine.
One or 2 of those little pieces came out with each oil change before the REcall.
No sounds, ran good, no other damage done.
Replaced both of the drive side bearings and all is well.
CJ
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Rusty

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 04:26:23 AM »
Iíve given the fragment to my dealer whoíll be passing it on to Watsonian for comment. Iíve also e-mailed both with pics of the fragment and T120ís broken main bearing.

In my opinion there can only be one outcome, even if the origins are inconclusive from the photos (and I think they are pretty conclusive) another engine strip is on the cards to find out where itís come from. :'(

What say you? Fortunately I have the warranty to fall back on but if it was your bike in three years time would you leave it or investigate?

ScooterBob

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 07:44:35 AM »
CJ - You are right on the money with this - To date, I've changed about 25 of the suspected main bearings, but have yet to see, up close and personal, a failed one ..... Fortunately for us, the RE boys designed the drive side of the engine with TWO dump truck wheel bearings, so if one is woogley, you can still get it home! hahaha! Gotta love an Enfield!
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 09:18:15 AM »
CJ - You are right on the money with this - To date, I've changed about 25 of the suspected main bearings, but have yet to see, up close and personal, a failed one .....

Now you have.

And you are right. Other than finding those little "tabs" of metal when changing the oil there were no indications of a problem whatsoever. The ball bearing next to it took the whole load without a whimper.
If it weren't for the REcall the bike would have probably still been on the road and all the tabs would have come out with the oil changes by now.
CJ

P.S. You coming to the Rally on the River next month?








 


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ScooterBob

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 02:28:13 PM »
CJ - I gots it in mah head that I NEEDS to be there .....  ;D I think there is gonna be a rebellion if a couple of us DON'T get a little break! hahahaha!! After the last little suare' , you know I'm all about a good camp fire, some gREat friends and a little Scotch! I'm told that the little event is an even BETTER time than the last one .... although I can hardly believe it ....  ::)
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REpozer

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 02:30:09 PM »
If in fact, Rusty,
You are able to ascertain a part number off the foreign debris,
you will be able to positively identify the culprit.
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Rusty

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 04:04:04 PM »
And you are right. Other than finding those little "tabs" of metal when changing the oil there were no indications of a problem whatsoever. The ball bearing next to it took the whole load without a whimper.
If it weren't for the REcall the bike would have probably still been on the road and all the tabs would have come out with the oil changes by now.

And mine might have to be still on the road. First comments from my dealer are  that "there's nothing to worry about". Haven't heard from the importers yet but their choice will be to agree there's a problem and incur the cost of an engine strip...or...suggest there's nothing to worry about. What do you think it'll be?

I'll reserve judgement until I hear from the importers but I'll be staggered if they're happy to allow fragments like that circulate the engine and gearbox. I think that's taking Enfield quirks beyond the limit.

Kevin, if a customer came to you with this what would you do?

REpozer

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 04:34:13 PM »
Rule of thumb, most machines.

In the drain pan, plug, fine particles,and sometimes hair like slivers are fine.Things do wear.

But if the pieces become big enough to merritt trying to read a part number, this is cause for concern.

If the part is of concern, the engine will eventually become a house of cards.
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 07:36:19 PM »
And mine might have to be still on the road. First comments from my dealer are  that "there's nothing to worry about". Haven't heard from the importers yet but their choice will be to agree there's a problem and incur the cost of an engine strip...or...suggest there's nothing to worry about. What do you think it'll be?

I'll reserve judgement until I hear from the importers but I'll be staggered if they're happy to allow fragments like that circulate the engine and gearbox. I think that's taking Enfield quirks beyond the limit.

Kevin, if a customer came to you with this what would you do?

Nothing to worry about?  My ass.
Just because it's running OK don't mean it's going to last forever like that.  It would be to their advantage to fix it now rather than later. It's a simple case of pay now or pay more later.

I can't speak for Kevin, but following this whole REcall thing makes me glad I'm on his side of the pond!
CJ

 
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r80rt

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2009, 07:43:58 PM »
I can't speak for Kevin, but following this whole REcall thing makes me glad I'm on his side of the pond!
CJ

 No kidding, I got a new main bearing when they did the tranny upgrade. Eveything was fine in my engine, but I feel better with the upgrades.
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2009, 07:53:31 PM »
CJ - I gots it in mah head that I NEEDS to be there .....  ;D I think there is gonna be a rebellion if a couple of us DON'T get a little break! hahahaha!! After the last little suare' , you know I'm all about a good camp fire, some gREat friends and a little Scotch! I'm told that the little event is an even BETTER time than the last one .... although I can hardly believe it ....  ::)

It truly is a great time for all the reasons you state.
A good campfire? You ain't seen nutten yet! They have professional stokers just to keep you warm till the wee hours.
Yup, I'm ready.
CJ
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ScooterBob

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 08:14:33 AM »
I can't speak for Kevin, but following this whole REcall thing makes me glad I'm on his side of the pond!
CJ

 No kidding, I got a new main bearing when they did the tranny upgrade. Eveything was fine in my engine, but I feel better with the upgrades.

We at CMW are taking this upgrade VERY seriously. We truly want our new C5 and G5 owners to have the BEST experience that they can have. Yes - it's a little inconvenient to have your bike "downed" for this upgrade - BUT - in the long run it'll add reliability and the sting of not having the bike for a week will be LONG forgotten. We have waded through QUITE a few of these here at the CMW warehouse and the fix is truly "belts and suspenders" - it's WAY better than it has to be. That's the way we like it, though. The factory has stepped up to the plate to make the bike ever better than it was designed to be - and the CMW dealer network, as well as a couple of us here have followed that lead. It IS good to be on "this side of the pond"!
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ScooterBob

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2009, 08:19:37 AM »
It truly is a great time for all the reasons you state.
A good campfire? You ain't seen nutten yet! They have professional stokers just to keep you warm till the wee hours.
Yup, I'm ready.
CJ

"Wee hours" he says .... That'll be about eleven o'clock for MY old tired butt ..... Hahahaha!! I'm ready as well ...... the sleeping bag is all aired out and the flask is full and ready .... Heeheehee!! I can't wait ..... It'll be good to see all the rabble-rousing, no-good-for-nothing miscreant motorcyclists there .....  ;) (notice I DIDN'T say BIKERS? Those guys ARE a public hazard!! Hahaha!!)
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2009, 09:53:45 AM »
"Wee hours" he says .... That'll be about eleven o'clock for MY old tired butt .....

11PM! I don't think the band will be done playing by then.
Better grab a camping spot in the back 40 if your really planning on sleeping.
Ear Plugs help too.

And there will be "bikers" there too. The pasta pilots (guzzi riders) show up in force.
I hope enough "Enfield Enthusiasts"  show up to tip the scales.

CJ
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ScooterBob

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2009, 12:58:12 PM »
I have a full flask to help with the sleeping chores .... Hahahaha!!! And them past Pilots don't scare ME none .... they are kindred spirits if'n you ask me! They DARE to be DIFFERENT as well .... besides all that, most of them guys are old hippy-dippy doods - adn you know what THAT means ....  ;) ..... fun WILL be had by all .... Heeheehee!!!
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Ice

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2009, 03:23:31 PM »
CJ - I gots it in mah head that I NEEDS to be there .....  ;D I think there is gonna be a rebellion if a couple of us DON'T get a little break! hahahaha!! After the last little suare' , you know I'm all about a good camp fire, some gREat friends and a little Scotch! I'm told that the little event is an even BETTER time than the last one .... although I can hardly believe it ....  ::)

I like your thinking  ;)
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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soulforge

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2009, 01:47:14 AM »
That's part of the cage on the drive side roller bearing.
Bet ya a buck it's a NBC bearing.
CJ
Sorry for interupting but what is a 'NBC' bearing?
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t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2009, 05:40:48 AM »
Sorry for interupting but what is a 'NBC' bearing?

NBC is the brand name.
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Rusty

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2009, 07:10:00 AM »
Some developments

Watsonian have confirmed that it is a fragment of main bearing cage but itís left over from the old bearings which were replaced during the gearbox recall work. Thatís supposed to make me feel better. The crank and gearbox must have come out, difficult to see where this fragment could have remained hidden particularly as they would have been looking for broken main bearing cages (wouldnít they?).

Oh well, Iíve registered it as a potential fault so weíll see how things develop.

t120rbullet

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Re: What do you think this is?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2009, 02:17:12 PM »
Watsonian have confirmed that it is a fragment of main bearing cage but itís left over from the old bearings which were replaced during the gearbox recall work. Thatís supposed to make me feel better. The crank and gearbox must have come out, difficult to see where this fragment could have remained hidden particularly as they would have been looking for broken main bearing cages (wouldnít they?).

That very well could be true. There are a lot of nooks and cranny's for something like that to hide.
So I guess the dealer may have been OK telling you that was nothing to worry about but he should have gone in a little detail with you on it.
So get out there and ride that baby and change oil often.
CJ

 
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2009 Royal Enfield Black G5 Classic "G2" "SOLD"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"