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Author Topic: Engine Problems  (Read 8219 times)

Ofcalipka

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Engine Problems
« on: October 25, 2007, 07:27:18 PM »
I've had a 2005 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Military since 2005 bought it brand new from the dealer while they were still selling them here in Hawaii and have put about 4200 miles on it since.  Since then it has been down for repair almost a year of the two years I've owned it.  The original engine blew up and had to be replaced due to a factory defect in the casting.  Oh well it happens, besides the warranty was excellent.  Now after several hundred miles on the new engine I am losing oil like crazy out of the breather hose, the tappets require adjusting every 100 miles and now after just a short ride of about 20 miles 15 of which on the freeway at about 55-60 mph the exhaust valve burned, seized, then got whacked by the piston and bent, AARGGHH.
The mechanical mods I've done were to remove all the EGR stuff as the tube from the exhaust over the engine melted the first time I rode it and I replaced the exhaust with the performance exhaust.  I then replaced the breather assembly with two lines routed up to the frame under the seat and back down by the pannier box.  I was thinking gravity would pull the oil back into the engine but sadly no.  I was thinking of trying to add a set of check valves onto these lines to act as a type of PCV but still debating and researching this.  Also I had the dealer re-jet the carb.  I am planning on replacing the valves, guides, and valve springs with the performance ones as well as putting better pushrods in and also putting the HO oil pump in the bike to help with cooling and better lube.  Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions for me so that I can enjoy the ride more than enjoying the repair.  I'm not looking to build a racing bike or reinvent the wheel here nor do I have vast financial resources at my disposal.  I just want to be able to ride the 20 or so miles into work everyday and a few extra on the weekends with my friends without having to rebuild the bike every 100 miles.  I'll be looking forward to everyones comments, suggestions, input, hate mail, and whatever.
Aloha
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

Sam

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2007, 08:50:33 PM »
The hose that comes off the left side of the engine is the breather. The one that comes off the right side is a return, not a breather; it's supposed to receive oil from the separator thing that you removed, and get it back into the tank. Oil will come out of there; lots of it. You can cork off or plug that hole with no down side.

As for the real breather, back when the design was new it had a duckbill thing that blew any oil that came out (and it's not much) onto the chain. Other bikes and cars just had a road tube or draft tube that dumped whatever came out onto the ground; this will work fine, and contrary to what you might hear, it's a net outflow so it won't suck air and crap back into the engine when it's running (really; trust those of us who remember such things), at least if you have a decent length of tubing; it's crankcase pumping from the piston going up and down (which is potentially an in and out) and ring blowby, which is entirely exhale. If you put your finger over the fitting you'll feel an in-and-out pulsation as the engine breathes, that's why you want some hose length, so it's pulsing essentially clean air and not sucking in. The duckbill is much cooler, however.

If you can find a power steering booster valve or PCV valve with a 3/8 hose fitting on each end, it'll work to make it a one-way exhale, which would be nice and is what the duckbill does as well. So far I haven't found the right part yet.

Route your ONE breather, if you don't go with the duckbill, back over the top of the transmission and down just by the center stand pivot. Alternatively, you can put a short piece of tubing on and put on one of those made-for-the-purpose K&N-looking breather filters, and either fasten it to something, or just let if flop. Running it up to the fender just about guarantees that you'll collect water/oil emulsion condensed from the crankcase vapors, that'll either plug up your hose or drizzle back down into the crankcase, either one of which is not the best idea.

Third choice, get the breather kit our hosts sell, that routes the breather into the oil tank filler.

As for why your valves and piston are not good friends, I suspect that a hard-ish freeway run with only a few hundred miles on the engine could be a contributor; or could you have run out of oil? Respect that it's an antique and take it easy on break-in, for a long, long time.

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buckeye rider

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 09:00:14 PM »
Sam is right when it comes to break in.I had to adjust pushrods and top oil all the time.I now have over 7000 on my 2001-runs like a clock.

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 02:44:50 AM »
I'd think real hard about the heavy duty oil pump.

The down side of the HO pump is extremely high oil pressure on a cold engine start.  If the engine is blipped or you have a backfire it is possible to strip the bevel teeth on the oil pump shaft.

At normal operating temps this engine does not require much oil pressure.  The main roller and ball bearings are splash lubricated.  As is the connecting rod small end.  The bushed main lower connecting rod and rocker arm assemblies require the pressure feed.

The HO pump lowers the cylinder head temperature by increasing oil pressure across the board, i.e. faster oil pass through in the cylinder head rocker box. In my experience oil volume being pumped is more important than oil pressure.  And the higher heat being passed to the oil means shortened oil change intervals - the oil breaks down quicker.

My two cents worth - unless the engine has a major hop up by increasing the bore, compression ratio, hot cams, aftermarket crankshaft, etc., I'd leave the stock pump alone.

I baby my Bullet Sixty-5 and use the best oil I can find.  I don't worry about cylinder head temps.  The factory engineers know the operating parameters for average street service.

I have peace of mind that the oil pump bevel spline won't let go, as I'm thumping along 55 MPH and 50 miles from home.

Just my and Murphy's perspective.

Regards, Foggy
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2007, 03:03:28 AM »
I have to agree with most of what has been said here. About the only way to burn an exhaust valve (especially on a 2005 or newer) is to overheat it or to have the valve adjusted too tightly. If it seized in the guide I would suspect lack of oil flow or overheating. Overheating is generally caused by driving one too fast during the first 1-2 thousand miles, a lean running condition or an overadvanced ignition. Lugging the engine doesn't help either, but usually you lose your piston when that happens.
 The performance exhaust may contribute to a lean condition if the shop didn't enrichen the mixture enough, easy to check by looking at your spark plug. Make sure your return pump is pumping oil to the head. If your rocker blocks are galled find out why. Most of all drive the darn thing within it's limits. When it is new or freshly rebuilt the RE engine is fine up to about 40mph. After that they can product more heat than they can dissapate and the results is never good news. I wouldn't drive mine over 40 for a full 500 miles, then not over 50 until I got to 1,000 and then not over 55 in general. There are plenty who have gotten away with being more aggressive, but they are just plain lucky, When you get your bike fixed, put on the breather system that these fellows have mentioned and drive the bike slow

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 10:35:24 AM »
Thank you for your input.  Just to let you know I have followed the break in according to the manual to the letter on this RE on both motors and I treat it as gently as I can.  I didn't ride it on the freeway until after the first oil change and when I do ride on the freeway it is only for about 25-30 miles at most and I keep it at 55 mph for a top speed sometimes go up to really brief 60 MPH spurts when passing.  My RE is not the only one in Hawaii that is doing this.  The dealer has the one other one they sold here in the shop for almost a year now and that one has only 200 miles on it and it won't run at all.  The only other one on my island I know of the guy bought so he could take it apart to see how it works and I have yet to see it anywhere on the road here.  I think the dealer out here just doesn't know what they are doing with these bikes at all.  They have 3 '05 bullets in the show room still yet from the original 7 they brought in in '05.  I saw them today the chrome is starting to pit and they have yet to have any miles put on them.  The other bikes went to the neighbor islands and haven't been heard from since.

I'm going to dig up the original breather assembly and put it back on and try that again.  Before it would overflow with oil but I'll try it again anyways.  As far as checking the spark plug it looks new with only normal signs of use as does the piston, except for the mark on it from where it hit the exhaust valve.  I'll put some more deep thought before I install the HO oil pump.

Any further ideas or suggestions would be very appreciated.

Aloha
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

Vince

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 04:00:16 PM »
Kevin is exactly right. The Enfield was designed in an era of English country lanes. Modern American freeways were never even imagined. You must NOT ride on the freeway!!! Almost all the serious problems I see are induced by riding at extended high or steady speeds. Break it in slowly, exactly according to the book. Then , whether you ride in the city or the country, KEEP THE SPEED DOWN. These are satisfying mounts if you respect them for what they are. Ride the way it was designed to be ridden and you,ll have reliable, economical fun.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2007, 04:18:42 PM »
The man that owned the Hawaii dealership died a year or two ago. This was most unfortunate for both his family and his customers. One has to wonder why a customer would even stand for having his bike in a dealership for a year waiting for repair. I know I wouldn't!! Parts are easy to get and readily available so you have to wonder why they don't just get on it and fix it.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 08:35:50 AM »
The man who brought these motorcycles in to Hawaii was the only mechanic at his shop willing to work on them as his regular mechanics do not like the RE's as they are into Harley's and Kawasaki's and claim they don't understand the RE's design.  I was only really bringing the bike into the dealer as I had warranty at the time.  I prefer doing my own repairs anyways which I am only just starting to do now. 

In response to not bringing the RE onto the freeway at all.  I don't understand why the RE's design will not allow it to sustain 50-55 MPH for distances of about 15-20 miles.  I don't travel more than that far ever at this speed.  I own two vehicles a 1952 Willys Overland (a 3 speed) and a 1957 Cadillac Sedan Deville and and thanks to my car club have worked on and driven over 20 different vehicles built in the 40's and 50's and never had problems with sustaining at least 50-55 mph with no ill effects on the motor.  I have several friends, grant it their bikes are Honda's not RE's, but they are only 250 cc motors and they suffer no problems with daily freeway driving at speeds higher than I go and much harder abuse than I am willing to do to my bike.  It also seems to me that if the Indians can climb the himalayas with an RE then it should be able to handle a short jaunt on the freeway too.

I have riden various motorcycles for almost 10 years now and have never tried to set any sort of land speed record yet.  I do not believe I am riding this bike hard.  I am not full throttling it through the gears to freeway speeds.  I am gradually accelerating up to about 50-55 mph after using as much of the side streets as I can.  Most days over here traffic is at astand still on the freeway anyways and I'm lucky if the whole trip is at 50-55 mph.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here with my rant as I love riding my Enfield and hope to have many more years of riding on it.  However if all it is able to do for speed is 35-40 mph at a top speed this should have been disclosed when I purchased it. 

My original question has still only partly answered.  Does anyone think I am on the right track with the performance mods and should I add anything to the list of mechanical parts for my engine on my bike.  Keep in mind I do have limited funds and am not try to build a race bike just one that can make it the 20 miles into work and 20 mile back every day.

I ordered the following parts: 
The Kibblewhite performance valves, guides, and performance springs,  the performance lightweight steel pushrods, gaskets, and the HO oil pump, which I am now debating whether or not to use. 

The mods I had the dealer do:
Performance exhaust, rejet the carb, remove the EGR assembly, redo the breather which I am going to put back to stock soon.

Looking forward to eveyons input,
As always Aloha.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 10:10:53 AM »
Something is seriously not right if you cannot maintain 50 - 55 mph - my Bullet will happily trundle around at GPS verified 60 all day long. So far, the only mods on my bike are Breather hose, Transmission bushes, and a larger front sprocket.
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deejay

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 01:52:31 PM »
larger front sprocket.

Thats the probably difference right there.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 02:11:12 PM »
So you would recommend the 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket as another mod from OEM.  I considered this but didn't think that one extra tooth would make any noticeable difference.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 02:27:28 PM »
Yep, I recommend that little mod to anyone who doesn't need to crawl in first. I have the very largest you can get, and it sure makes a difference - It is either 18 tooth, or 19 tooth, I forget which. It is too big for the space, the result of which is the left gear shift shaft contacts the primary chain when I change down.. Momentary noise.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

krodaddy

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2007, 03:20:20 PM »
My 01 bullet is very happy at 52mph indicated on my garmin gps. Only mods are K&N filter and jetting.  Bear in mind that when I first acquired it with only 650 miles it really didn't feel good above 40-45. After 2000 miles of break in, it really smoothed out and ran better. Brakes got better, transmission shifted better, engine didn't feel so tight, and the suspension seems to have softened up a little. ( pretty stiff when I got it ) Has over 5000 miles on it now and I would not hesitate to ride it anywhere. ( at 52 mph  ;D )
Krodaddy

Eamon

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2007, 05:12:10 PM »
In response to not bringing the RE onto the freeway at all.  I don't understand why the RE's design will not allow it to sustain 50-55 MPH for distances of about 15-20 miles.  I don't travel more than that far ever at this speed. 

Didn't you mention in your first post that you were doing these speeds with just a few hundred miles on the rebuild?  If so, it's my understanding that according to proper break-in procedures, this is too early to be running extended miles at that speed.  According to my manual, maximum speed for the first 300 miles is about 40 mph and from 300 to 600 miles it's still roughly 45 mph.  Even then, it's my understanding that you start easing it into the higher speeds gradually over the next 1000 miles or so.  After that, it seems that (with a properly tuned engine) they will more or less do 50-55 all day (depending on load, hills, etc.) as long as you keep it at that speed and under.

Eamon
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http://www.sterlingloons.com

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 05:47:15 PM »
Okay,

It seems as though the impression is I did not break in my RE properly.  This is the details of how I broke it in.  Please tell me what I did wrong.

Upon purchasing the bike new from the dealer I first read the operators manual that came with the bike.  I then drove it about 1000 miles not exceeding 35 MPH.  During this time the EGR tube melted so I had the dealer remove it entirely.  At 500 miles I had the oil changed and 500 mile maintenance done at the dealer.  I have always used starting at this oil change Penzoil 20W-50 oil.  I drove it another 500 miles not exceeding 45 MPH.  During this time the valves gave up and had to be replaced by the dealer.  I got it back drove it at 35 MPH for another 50 miles and then started the 45 top speed again.  After this I gradually began to take it on short trips on the freeway not exceeding 55 MPH ever.  During this run I again had to have the valves rebuilt for some unknown reason.  When I got to about 2100 miles on the bike the piston broke apart while I was traveling at about 35 MPH on a level roadway sending bits of metal thoughout the inner workings of the bike pretty much destroying the whole engine and for some unknown reason the transmission was stuck in a false neutral between 4th and 5th gear.  I took it to the dealer who changed out the whole motor as he felt the original one was beyond repair.

About 6-7 months later the new engine and transmission were finally installed and I had the dealer install the performance silencer and re-jet the carb at this time.  He also did the modification to the breather I mentioned before at this time as well.  This time I rode about 1500 miles not exceeding 35 MPH again changing oil at 500 and 1500 miles.  I then began to ride it not exceeding 45 MPH for another 500 miles during which time the head had to be rebuilt again.  I got it back from the dealer and drove about 10 miles not exceeding 35 before the valves gave up again and it needed another replacement of the valves.  After driving it around for about a week the front bolt on the fuel tank worked its way off somehow and the rear brackets then snapped off from the stress leaving me riding suddenly without a fuel tank after going over a bump in the road.  I got it back drove it for 50 miles or so at 35 then another 500 or so miles at 45 before again attempting the freeway.  During this 45 MPH max run the performance silencers baffle fell apart for no apparent reason leaving me with a large chrome rattle so I reinstalled the OEM silencer on the bike until I could afford a replacement.  At about 4200 miles on the odemeter again the engine burned up its valves after I drove it the 20 miles into work about 15 of which were at speeds of 45-55.

So where did I go wrong?

I now no longer have any warranty for the bike and am going to finally try fixing it myself and am hoping the the performance parts will hold up better than the OEM one's have.  Maybe its just the Hawaii roads out here that are eating this bike up or maybe Murphy has a special interest in me with the RE, I just don't know. 

Anyways, what I want to know is do you all think the performance modifications I have described before are enough, to little, or should I take Matilda here down to the Army's artillery range and post the video of what happens on youtube?

That last option is not really where I want to go but it would be more entertaining than waiting for a tow wagon on the side of the road again.

Aloha
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 08:21:29 PM »
Sounds like you got a whole lemon tree.  I do not know why two engines would have problems, unless your neighbors have been putting sand in your oil.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
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Jefferson County, WA

luoma

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 10:24:26 PM »
I don't know why your bike shop mechanics claim they don't understand the RE engine. Anyone who understands a lawnmower motor can pretty much understand the RE. Today's modern bikes are so complicated that if a mechanic can't work on an Enfield, I wouldn't let him touch anything of mine.

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2007, 02:28:50 AM »
Mods sound good to me, but I would add that bigger front sprocket. Be sure and use the HD oil pump also. I haven't heard of any failures caused by people using them. I broke my RE in easily also.......yup.....60+ mph from day one. Adjusted valves, points, carb several times up to 1500 mile mark. Bike now has almost 6000 miles and it might be ready for a valve adjustment. Lots of loose nuts and bolts and had to check oil after every all day run. It runs great and starts on first kick (usually). My usual cruising speed is 60-65 mph (indicated) on the big road and 45-55 on the backroads. It will run 70-80 for bursts of 5-10 miles. Will also keep up with 650-750 Bonnies with no problem. All you doubters can show up at the Blue Ridge Ride next May and see, hahaha. Sounds like your bike either got hot from being jetted to lean (REs like it rich) or you ran it low on oil causing the valve failure. Also, make sure the timing is correct. That can burn a bike up in no time. Don't give up on your RE, good luck......Dew.
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Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2007, 03:06:28 AM »
She might be a whole lemon tree but you can't make lemonaid without a whole bunch of lemons.  MMM, that sugary tart goodness.

Also I don't think there was sabotage as I have seen no evidence of such yet either.  I don't think anyone would try something stupid like that as most people who know me also know that I have a .303 Enfield #1 mk 4 (SMLE) security system to go along with my bike.  Just wish I could find one of those old WW2 mounts for it to put on Matilda.  He he he.  Hmm, maybe thats whats wrong with the bike, its missing this essential part.

As far as the mechanics, well, I think that they just do not want to work on RE cause they are into Harley's and the like.  Dominic was the only one into the RE's God bless him and he is greatly missed now.

Dew, thanks for the input  I'll also try to richen up the carb a little more with the performance mods and I think I will get that sprocket after next payday.  Any tips on how to lap the HO oil pump in.  I never did that before got a good idea but won't turn down the advice and wisdom of those who already know what to do.

"Wisdom doesn't automatically come with old age. Nothing does - except wrinkles. It's true, some wines improve with age. But only if the grapes were good in the first place." - Abigail Van Buren

Aloha
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2007, 03:17:17 AM »
Sounds like a carb main jet problem.

And I have to ask - was your Pennz 20W50 oil for a car?  Only use oil formulated for air cooled motorcycles.  I would look for 10W50.  My dealer does not recommend the Harley blends using 20W50 oils in an RE.

Reading the spark plug after a hot shut down (don't let it idle - hit the kill switch while pulling over) the plug porcelain should be a medium coffee tan in color.  Reading plugs is a great indicator of carb jetting.  White slate gray porcelain - it's too lean.  Dark chocolate and damp - it's too rich.  The Champion website had an excellent picture chart on reading plugs.  I haven't checked it in awhile.

Too rich a mixture never hurts a 4 stroke engine unless the oil is flushed off the rings and cylinder bore.  Too lean a mixture can be suicide for any engine.

Wrong ignition timing and carb jetting can cause detonation in the advance or high heat in the retard.  And the sound of detonation could be masked by the engine sounds and wind at highway speeds - until the piston goes.

It also sounds like the threads on the pushrod adjusters could be stripped or aren't locked securely with the jam nuts.  The valve lash appears to be going out of whack while the engine is running from what you said.  Or the lash is improperly set.  Kind of hard to tell without being there with you.

And watch all the nuts and bolts on any motorcycle.

Good luck!

Regards, Foggy
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deejay

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2007, 03:18:41 AM »
look on the bright side... you LIVE in Hawaii.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2007, 03:40:32 AM »
Well you are all welcome to come on over for a ride as I seem to be the lone RE rider in Hawaii.  However I think that might possibly be the most expensive rally ever.  Mind it now the ride would be amazing and beautiful.  Nothing quite like the 50 or so mile round island ride of never ending beaches and bikinis.  Yet another reason I don't go fast and have a sore neck.  And yes the entire round robin ride can be done without touching the freeway or exceeding 45.  Hopefully in few months they will have this interisland ferry nonsense sorted out and I can start riding to the neighbor islands as well. 
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2007, 07:55:53 PM »
You can use fine grit sandpaper to lap those oil pumps, even though they may not need it. Maybe RE#1 could give us some input on this. Bought my HD pumps a while back and have been buying go-fast stuff for a few years when it was on sale. Just a few more goodies and I will be ready to turn my RE into a 30+ hp (I hope) monster. So I haven't installed the pumps yet.....Dew.
If it hurts, you're not dead yet!!!!!

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2007, 08:44:51 PM »
Quote
I have a .303 Enfield #1 mk 4 (SMLE) security system to go along with my bike.  Just wish I could find one of those old WW2 mounts for it to put on Matilda.  He he he.  Hmm, maybe thats whats wrong with the bike, its missing this essential part
Three Lee-Enfiields here, but no RE to put them on (yet). Let me know if you find a mount. I'll need one, too. :D
Columbus, OH
2008 Black Classic ES "Last One"
1050 miles on the clock
OH! ... IO!

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2007, 09:29:19 PM »
I never thought of putting my Enfield 303s onto the bike.. good idea.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
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scoTTy

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2007, 12:55:15 AM »
i don't get it Man.. My o7 pUrrS

 soRRy Ure havN problems... with yUrs.. hope U get them ironed out.  :(

 I finally was able to start mine with the kick starter.. the rest of the time I was just circulating the oil..:P  which is probabaly a good thing  ;D

 I like the thumb switch better.... 8)

there I stand in mid air thinking.. i should have used the decompression release :o

 we need pictures of U on uRe Enfield.. crUzN the isLanD   
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:00:21 AM by scotty »

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2007, 02:41:04 AM »
I took the head down to my machinist today and he told me that it wasn't the valve that was bent after all.  What I hadn't noticed maybe because I was so upset about it breaking down again.  Was that the valve seat had worked its way loose somehow and was now jammed in crooked.  He is going to try and put it back in right and see if it looks like it will work.  Doesn't appear damaged just not in right. 

Anyone have any idea's as to how this could have happened?

One of my friends has a 42 Harley WLA and he has a leather holster mounted on the right side of the forks for a tommy gun.  I wonder if the British had something similar for the Enfield rifle.  Sounds like a topic for another post.

Scotty, I have posted some pictures of my RE around the island here.  I'll post more when I have more.  Glad to hear you got yours to start with the kick.  Mine has always kicked real easy when it runs.
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2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 03:46:42 AM »
Valve seats can come out - butr WARNING be very careful and suspicious of using the old one. The seats are an interference fit into the head. If it came out once what is to prevent it from coming out again. Locktite makes some stuff that is supposed to pretty good at locking things together (high strength stuff like sleeves) and I have no idea if this is a proper use for it or not.
  Common practice is to get a new valve seat with a slightly larger outside diameter and flycut the head slightly larger so you can control the interference fit. This is how out HP heads are done. You don't want this to happen again.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 04:35:19 AM »
Since several parts I ordered are on back order.  I figured to try and just get it running for now if possible and put all the parts in one time when they come in.  If the machinist I use says its good to go I'll reinstall the head and ride it slow until all my parts come in.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

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Sam

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2007, 06:53:05 PM »
I doubt the loctite will work here; high temperatures degrade it. Perhaps the machinist is knurling the seat so it'll stay put.

I've been following this with some interest; it reminds me of the guy on one of the Ural boards who went through 4 engines; two outright replacements, and two re-builds. Some was surely random chance (older Urals are examples of Russian "just good enough" philosophy; crappy materials and shoddy workmanship, but a design robust enough to tolerate it. For that matter, so are newer ones, but they cost more), and some may have been helped along by a mismatch between perception and reality. Once he got good at repairs, the problems needing repair went away, I think because he started understanding the machine.

There's a whole list of suggestions here, none of which you have really responded to--see Foggy's post earlier. High performance parts aren't going to fix basic problems, and you have basic problems.

Have you checked the jetting by doing a clean ignition cut under full load? I would expect that you'd be running at least a 120 main jet, probably richer; better look. Lean jetting makes heat, heat kills engines. That's happening to you.

Are you dead sure about the valve lash, secure adjusting nuts, etc? A little loose is likely OK; a little tight, and it probably won't start, but check it, it's easy.

Are you dead sure about the timing? advanced timing makes heat, melts pistons.

These three things are fundamental. Unless the mixture, timing, and valve adjustment are reasonably close, it's not going to work right, and if pushed hard, will break.

While I disagree with some on the subject of motorcycle-specific oil (absolutely no evidence that car oil is a problem in motorcycles, not even in wet clutch applications), using bike-market-specific oil surely won't hurt, but it needs to stay inside the engine. Fix the breather thing, either by re-fitting the original, or corking off the cam chest vent and fitting either a hose or better, duckbill to the crankcase breather (crankcase breather is the one on the left, non-kick starter, side). Then the oil will stay inside the engine. If it doesn't and you're pumping oil from the crankcase, you have bigger problems, like no ring seal or a bad scavenging-side pump (which could also explain some of the top end problems; the scavenging side feeds oil to the top end).  Check that you're getting oil out of the crankcase and up to the top end by loosening the fittings one at a time and setting oily hands.

If you can't do these things, find a lawnmower mechanic (I wish I was there--we could sort this out in an afternoon, then go for a ride), or get Snidel's manual, sold by our host. If your indy's mechanics don't understand Enfields, I wouldn't let them put air in somebody else's lawnower tires. There's not a lot of difference between a pre-Twinkie HD and an Enfield, except that the Enfield's simpler.

<Insert cryptic saying by obscure author here>

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2007, 01:07:34 AM »
Good points Sam.

Two simple checks to see if both sides of the oil pump is working.  When idling, loosen a banjo bolt at the oil line to the rocker box - oil should start to flow out under some pressure.  Retighten this one, than check the other banjo bolt for the same oil flow.  Tighten this one.  Now loosen the oil feed plug bolt in the center of the timing chest cover - the one centered above the oil pump assy and used to drain the timing chest during oil changes.  Loosen this very slowly - oil should start to flow under some pressure.  Retighten and get out the shop rags.

On an oil change remove all three plug bolts under the engine.  One on bottom of oil reservoir and two on bottom of crankcase.  Check the screens on the two crankcase plugs making sure they are clean and not clogged or gunked up.  Handle the screens gently and don't distort them.  Each screen is for one side each of the oil pump flow path.

Soak the new oil filter in new oil before re-installing.

Very important to remember to put 200 ml of oil in the the timing chest.  I use the front pushrod tappet drain opening (it's bigger).  This is looking at the tappet cavity with the cover off.  I swiped my wife's turkey baster to do this...

Always check the oil level before each ride.  Most of us here are of the opinion that the oil level should be in the center of the dipstick range - not to the full mark.  And dipstick fully screwed in.

You probably already do this - but hate to see a bike with a lot of major problems - covering bases.

Regards, Foggy
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Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2007, 08:51:07 AM »
Well I got the head back from the machinist this afternoon. The machinist said the engine probably overheated causing the aluminium and steel to expand at different rates which is how the valve seat came loose.  He claims it is as good as new and was even able to resurrect the exhaust valve for now and relapped it in.  I spent the whole afternoon putting her back together and just started her up.  Started on the first kick.  IT'S ALIVE!!!!  IT'S ALIVE!!!!  Just goes to show what a though design the RE really is.

I've checked and rechecked everything on the bike now.  Timing, oil pump, torques, tappets, carb., ect. pretty much everything.  everything seems fine.  I'm going to keep her off the freeway until the performance parts come in.  Glad to be thumping again and thanks for everyones help.  I keep you all updated on the performance mods as soon as I do them.

Also I dug the oil catch can for my breather lines out of storage but I don't remember how it was originally mounted.  Does anyone have a photo of this mounted so I could see how it goes back on.  Thanks

Aloha.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 09:15:07 AM by Ofcalipka »
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2007, 01:05:15 PM »
How in the world did all of you find roads to break in your REs as per factory suggestions. Even on the backroads here in KY you will get run over by the rednecks (I is one) driving pick-up trucks if putting along at 35-40 mph all the time. As I have stated before, my bike got the quick and dirty break-in. I always break my bikes in that way and never have any trouble. The rings seal better and the bikes usually run better than they should, my RE would run an indicated 90 mph while it was stock and gets almost unbelievable gas mileage. What makes this motor supposedly so delicate. I know it is an old design but all the bearings are made out of modern metals so it should be as robust as any other engine. Please don't confuse a hard break-in with mechanical abuse. I didn't, and don't, rev the crap out of it all the time. It doesn't like to be shifted rapidly (damn left hand shift) so I don't fly through the gears very often. More of a "put her in high and ride" kind of rider. Comments, suggestions, flames, and down right insults welcomed in reply.....Dew.
If it hurts, you're not dead yet!!!!!

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2007, 01:16:18 PM »
Think modern oils have helped a lot. True about modern materials, but are the working processes that create the bike modern or ancient?

I know two lads who bought Suzuki GS550's about a week apart in 1978. One ran his in very carefully while the other ran his in very, very hard.
The careful one was a very mechanically quiet bike that was pretty good acceleration wise, but the thrashed one was a lot noisier but always but always faster. Coincidence? Maybe but I have found that too with R/C racing engines so you pays yer money and takes yer choice!!!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2007, 02:31:01 PM »
Abuse and a fast break-in are two seperate things. I don't abuse my bikes, just a little hard running on occasion. I do break them in fast, going at faster speeds and slower speeds also. Never really had a bike overheat and have had only one major catathrophe. My SR500 (high mileage) lost the top of the valve and it screwed up my cylinder, head, and piston. Can you believe it, Yamaha wouldn't cover it under warranty after only 29 years! ! ! !  Clearly it was the fault of the manufacturer, or maybe I ran it low on oil......Dew.
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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2007, 04:52:36 PM »
Yamaha wouldn't cover it after ONLY 29 years? Disgusting  ;D ;D ;D

What's it coming to when they won't honour a 29 year old bikes obvious failings  ::)
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
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Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2007, 01:21:49 AM »
Just came back from a 50 mile ride around the North Shore and back.  She's purring like a kitten for now.  Still can't wait to get all the performance parts in.  Get her purring like a tiger then.

Aloha.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

LotusSevenMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2007, 07:03:31 PM »
A saying I use for racing bikes (and cars etc) is that the last 10% of power (increase) costs an additional 90% of grief!!!  :o
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2007, 10:52:52 AM »
I went another 50 miles on Matilda today.  Average speed of about 45 mph.  Still no real problems as of yet. 

Here are some Motorcycle Murphy's laws for you all:  (Seemed pertinant to my dilemma here.)  Enjoy
1) A motorcycle cannot fall over without a crowd.

2) The odds of a motorcycle falling over are directly
proportional to the size of the audience, and the owners ego.
The newness, and expense, of the bike may also factor into it.

3) Motorcycles are to yellow bugs as aircraft carriers once
were to kamikaze pilots.

4) You will not feel the need to go to the restroom until after
your have put on your rain suit.

5) The fact that your keys are in your pants pocket will only
be apparent after you have put your gloves on.

6) Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.

7) The only part you really need will also be the only one on
permanent backorder.

8) Nothing is harder to start than a used motorcycle being
shown to a prospective buyer.

9) You will never have a flat tire on the road unless you
leave the flat repair kit at home.

10) Universal kit accessories are so named because they fit
no bike in this universe.

As Always,
Aloha.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2007, 11:52:29 AM »
That is so true. When alone I can do some pretty amazing things with the bike - get a crowd, and it all goes south fast. :)
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
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Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2007, 09:55:29 AM »
Here are some more Murphy’s Laws/Rules of Vintage Vehicle Restoration I thought might be pertinent to my last post and the RE as well.  I found these very true when restoring my 1952 Willys-Overland and found myself reminiscing over these during my recent troubles with Matilda here.  Enjoy.

1)When you have finally located the rare and elusive wing-ding-thing for your restoration at a reasonable price and it will be so far away or it will be of such a size and weight that shipping will effectively triple the cost making it completely unaffordable.

2)Friends who promised to lend a hand suddenly become strangers.

3)As soon as you bring your project home, your spouse (who formerly approved the purchase) looks upon it with a jaundiced eye and announces that it makes the driveway look "cluttered."

4)No matter how well you protect your "baby" from the weather, some rain will get in.

5)As soon as you have a few extra bucks to spend on your project a major household appliance will self-destruct.

6)Sandblasting media does more scattered on a linoleum or hardwood floor than it ever will on your project at 150 psi.

7)Jehova's Witnesses on bicycles will stop at your house while you are up to your armpits in 50-year-old grease.  You will inform them that as long as they are willing to help, you will listen to anything they have to say.  They will leave without saying a word and never return.

8)It frequently costs as much (and is better) to buy a specialized tool and do a task yourself as it is to pay to have the job done.  Besides, you get to keep the tool.

9)Wherever and whenever you order parts for your project there will always be one less in stock than the total number that you need.

10)A restorer's eyes are always bigger than his wallet.

11)A restorer's heart is always bigger than his head.

12)Never pay more for "potential" or for "sentimental value."  Never violate this rule.

13)At some time your spouse will give your child a tool "to help daddy" work on the project.  The child will invariably chip away with it on an exposed, painted surface.  Your spouse will do nothing to stop this and will look lovingly at your offspring, clasp her hands to her bosom and exclaim, "Isn't that CUTE!"  Count to ten while formulating an appropriate response.

14)Someone will come to you and describe what you recognize to be a rare project vehicle that just came up for sale on some obscure county road but (a) "just came up for sale" means they saw it there three years ago, or (b) they can't quite remember which county road it was on because they had never been on it before or (c) any combination thereof.  Before you do anything try to determine if this conversation is divine guidance or is simply the work of Satan.

15)A project that is disassembled takes up ten to fifteen times more space than an assembled one.

16)Many projects are worth more in parts, than all together.  Personally, I think this is some kind of cruel joke.

17)Invariably, many restored parts of your project will find their way into your house.  This is not a bad thing and can give you hours of personal satisfaction as you gaze upon them.

18)Restorations take on a life of their own.....and in fact, some have very sharp teeth.

19)The more time you have, the less money your restoration will cost.  Conversely, lots of money can make a restoration short (and sweet).

20)Any restoration effort will cost at least four times more than you figured.  Any restoration effort will take at least eight times longer than you figured.

"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

sohalz

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2007, 10:19:57 PM »
I have 1996 500cc bike that has 10,000 miles on it. I opened up the gearbox to replace the "pawl" in 2003 but have not completed the repair yet.(Personal reasons)
Finally I have come around & am thinking about riding the bike again.
I am thinking since it has been in-operational so long do I need to replace the whole
-Transmission or
-the whole Engine

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2007, 12:18:03 AM »
If there wasn't anything wrong with it before than there shouldn't be anything wrong with it now just finish changing the pawl.  I would however overhaul the carb if it has been sitting for more than a year as well as do a full service and change out all your fluids, gas and oil that is, and spark plug.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2007, 01:45:06 AM »
Ofcalipke is right. Get rid of the olds fluids in the engine, primary case and transmsiioin. oil up the cable, drop a teaspoon of oil in the cylinder, adjust the primary chain, clutch etc, clean the carb, install a fuel filter and new battery, adust the valves and you will also want to check the petrol tank for rust. Bikes of that Vintage did not have lined tanks and were prone to rust. It is not too tough to deal with, but check it. Kick it and ride it like you stole it.

sohalz

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2007, 09:39:06 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys, I get on to ordering the battery and other needed stuff in the cooming next weeks from Claasic Motors..

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2007, 09:18:14 AM »
Well I finally got past 500 miles since I put the head back together.  I checked the head bolts which I had tightened to 23 ft/lbs and now found the 4 bolts under the valve covers loose to the point I could unscrew them with my fingers.  I retourqed the bolts and checked the rest of the bike over and found everything else to still be within tolerances.  I guess locktite isn't very useful on these bolts at all.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

cyrusb

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2007, 08:12:02 PM »
I'm still trying to remember when people went 55 on the freeway, It's 70-80 buy me.

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2007, 12:00:56 AM »
Where I live (eastern Ky) 70 mph will get you passed by everything in sight on the interstate. Its getting so I will take the backroads, even in my car. Its scary for me to watch these people in SUVs, loaded down with kids, talking on the cell, smoking a cig, and doing 80-90 mph. They think they are driving fortresses, but I've seen those SUVs come apart after rolling down the median at 80-90 mph......Dew.
If it hurts, you're not dead yet!!!!!

indian48

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2007, 01:04:14 AM »
Re speeding in SUVs, I hear that carmakers are realizing that they may be taking the NVH elimination subject too far, and insulating the driver so much from the road, reduces the realization of the speeds one is doing. There is some thought now about dialling some of the NVH back into the cars in the design offices of performance autos. I am sure that much the same may apply to the Hayabusa etc!
If anything is worth doing, it is worth doing well