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Author Topic: Engine Problems  (Read 8400 times)

Sam

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2007, 06:53:05 PM »
I doubt the loctite will work here; high temperatures degrade it. Perhaps the machinist is knurling the seat so it'll stay put.

I've been following this with some interest; it reminds me of the guy on one of the Ural boards who went through 4 engines; two outright replacements, and two re-builds. Some was surely random chance (older Urals are examples of Russian "just good enough" philosophy; crappy materials and shoddy workmanship, but a design robust enough to tolerate it. For that matter, so are newer ones, but they cost more), and some may have been helped along by a mismatch between perception and reality. Once he got good at repairs, the problems needing repair went away, I think because he started understanding the machine.

There's a whole list of suggestions here, none of which you have really responded to--see Foggy's post earlier. High performance parts aren't going to fix basic problems, and you have basic problems.

Have you checked the jetting by doing a clean ignition cut under full load? I would expect that you'd be running at least a 120 main jet, probably richer; better look. Lean jetting makes heat, heat kills engines. That's happening to you.

Are you dead sure about the valve lash, secure adjusting nuts, etc? A little loose is likely OK; a little tight, and it probably won't start, but check it, it's easy.

Are you dead sure about the timing? advanced timing makes heat, melts pistons.

These three things are fundamental. Unless the mixture, timing, and valve adjustment are reasonably close, it's not going to work right, and if pushed hard, will break.

While I disagree with some on the subject of motorcycle-specific oil (absolutely no evidence that car oil is a problem in motorcycles, not even in wet clutch applications), using bike-market-specific oil surely won't hurt, but it needs to stay inside the engine. Fix the breather thing, either by re-fitting the original, or corking off the cam chest vent and fitting either a hose or better, duckbill to the crankcase breather (crankcase breather is the one on the left, non-kick starter, side). Then the oil will stay inside the engine. If it doesn't and you're pumping oil from the crankcase, you have bigger problems, like no ring seal or a bad scavenging-side pump (which could also explain some of the top end problems; the scavenging side feeds oil to the top end).  Check that you're getting oil out of the crankcase and up to the top end by loosening the fittings one at a time and setting oily hands.

If you can't do these things, find a lawnmower mechanic (I wish I was there--we could sort this out in an afternoon, then go for a ride), or get Snidel's manual, sold by our host. If your indy's mechanics don't understand Enfields, I wouldn't let them put air in somebody else's lawnower tires. There's not a lot of difference between a pre-Twinkie HD and an Enfield, except that the Enfield's simpler.

<Insert cryptic saying by obscure author here>

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2007, 01:07:34 AM »
Good points Sam.

Two simple checks to see if both sides of the oil pump is working.  When idling, loosen a banjo bolt at the oil line to the rocker box - oil should start to flow out under some pressure.  Retighten this one, than check the other banjo bolt for the same oil flow.  Tighten this one.  Now loosen the oil feed plug bolt in the center of the timing chest cover - the one centered above the oil pump assy and used to drain the timing chest during oil changes.  Loosen this very slowly - oil should start to flow under some pressure.  Retighten and get out the shop rags.

On an oil change remove all three plug bolts under the engine.  One on bottom of oil reservoir and two on bottom of crankcase.  Check the screens on the two crankcase plugs making sure they are clean and not clogged or gunked up.  Handle the screens gently and don't distort them.  Each screen is for one side each of the oil pump flow path.

Soak the new oil filter in new oil before re-installing.

Very important to remember to put 200 ml of oil in the the timing chest.  I use the front pushrod tappet drain opening (it's bigger).  This is looking at the tappet cavity with the cover off.  I swiped my wife's turkey baster to do this...

Always check the oil level before each ride.  Most of us here are of the opinion that the oil level should be in the center of the dipstick range - not to the full mark.  And dipstick fully screwed in.

You probably already do this - but hate to see a bike with a lot of major problems - covering bases.

Regards, Foggy
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Fortiter Et Fideliter

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2007, 08:51:07 AM »
Well I got the head back from the machinist this afternoon. The machinist said the engine probably overheated causing the aluminium and steel to expand at different rates which is how the valve seat came loose.  He claims it is as good as new and was even able to resurrect the exhaust valve for now and relapped it in.  I spent the whole afternoon putting her back together and just started her up.  Started on the first kick.  IT'S ALIVE!!!!  IT'S ALIVE!!!!  Just goes to show what a though design the RE really is.

I've checked and rechecked everything on the bike now.  Timing, oil pump, torques, tappets, carb., ect. pretty much everything.  everything seems fine.  I'm going to keep her off the freeway until the performance parts come in.  Glad to be thumping again and thanks for everyones help.  I keep you all updated on the performance mods as soon as I do them.

Also I dug the oil catch can for my breather lines out of storage but I don't remember how it was originally mounted.  Does anyone have a photo of this mounted so I could see how it goes back on.  Thanks

Aloha.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 09:15:07 AM by Ofcalipka »
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2007, 01:05:15 PM »
How in the world did all of you find roads to break in your REs as per factory suggestions. Even on the backroads here in KY you will get run over by the rednecks (I is one) driving pick-up trucks if putting along at 35-40 mph all the time. As I have stated before, my bike got the quick and dirty break-in. I always break my bikes in that way and never have any trouble. The rings seal better and the bikes usually run better than they should, my RE would run an indicated 90 mph while it was stock and gets almost unbelievable gas mileage. What makes this motor supposedly so delicate. I know it is an old design but all the bearings are made out of modern metals so it should be as robust as any other engine. Please don't confuse a hard break-in with mechanical abuse. I didn't, and don't, rev the crap out of it all the time. It doesn't like to be shifted rapidly (damn left hand shift) so I don't fly through the gears very often. More of a "put her in high and ride" kind of rider. Comments, suggestions, flames, and down right insults welcomed in reply.....Dew.
If it hurts, you're not dead yet!!!!!

LotusSevenMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2007, 01:16:18 PM »
Think modern oils have helped a lot. True about modern materials, but are the working processes that create the bike modern or ancient?

I know two lads who bought Suzuki GS550's about a week apart in 1978. One ran his in very carefully while the other ran his in very, very hard.
The careful one was a very mechanically quiet bike that was pretty good acceleration wise, but the thrashed one was a lot noisier but always but always faster. Coincidence? Maybe but I have found that too with R/C racing engines so you pays yer money and takes yer choice!!!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

dewjantim

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2007, 02:31:01 PM »
Abuse and a fast break-in are two seperate things. I don't abuse my bikes, just a little hard running on occasion. I do break them in fast, going at faster speeds and slower speeds also. Never really had a bike overheat and have had only one major catathrophe. My SR500 (high mileage) lost the top of the valve and it screwed up my cylinder, head, and piston. Can you believe it, Yamaha wouldn't cover it under warranty after only 29 years! ! ! !  Clearly it was the fault of the manufacturer, or maybe I ran it low on oil......Dew.
If it hurts, you're not dead yet!!!!!

LotusSevenMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2007, 04:52:36 PM »
Yamaha wouldn't cover it after ONLY 29 years? Disgusting  ;D ;D ;D

What's it coming to when they won't honour a 29 year old bikes obvious failings  ::)
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2007, 01:21:49 AM »
Just came back from a 50 mile ride around the North Shore and back.  She's purring like a kitten for now.  Still can't wait to get all the performance parts in.  Get her purring like a tiger then.

Aloha.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

LotusSevenMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2007, 07:03:31 PM »
A saying I use for racing bikes (and cars etc) is that the last 10% of power (increase) costs an additional 90% of grief!!!  :o
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2007, 10:52:52 AM »
I went another 50 miles on Matilda today.  Average speed of about 45 mph.  Still no real problems as of yet. 

Here are some Motorcycle Murphy's laws for you all:  (Seemed pertinant to my dilemma here.)  Enjoy
1) A motorcycle cannot fall over without a crowd.

2) The odds of a motorcycle falling over are directly
proportional to the size of the audience, and the owners ego.
The newness, and expense, of the bike may also factor into it.

3) Motorcycles are to yellow bugs as aircraft carriers once
were to kamikaze pilots.

4) You will not feel the need to go to the restroom until after
your have put on your rain suit.

5) The fact that your keys are in your pants pocket will only
be apparent after you have put your gloves on.

6) Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.

7) The only part you really need will also be the only one on
permanent backorder.

8) Nothing is harder to start than a used motorcycle being
shown to a prospective buyer.

9) You will never have a flat tire on the road unless you
leave the flat repair kit at home.

10) Universal kit accessories are so named because they fit
no bike in this universe.

As Always,
Aloha.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

RagMan

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2007, 11:52:29 AM »
That is so true. When alone I can do some pretty amazing things with the bike - get a crowd, and it all goes south fast. :)
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2007, 09:55:29 AM »
Here are some more Murphy’s Laws/Rules of Vintage Vehicle Restoration I thought might be pertinent to my last post and the RE as well.  I found these very true when restoring my 1952 Willys-Overland and found myself reminiscing over these during my recent troubles with Matilda here.  Enjoy.

1)When you have finally located the rare and elusive wing-ding-thing for your restoration at a reasonable price and it will be so far away or it will be of such a size and weight that shipping will effectively triple the cost making it completely unaffordable.

2)Friends who promised to lend a hand suddenly become strangers.

3)As soon as you bring your project home, your spouse (who formerly approved the purchase) looks upon it with a jaundiced eye and announces that it makes the driveway look "cluttered."

4)No matter how well you protect your "baby" from the weather, some rain will get in.

5)As soon as you have a few extra bucks to spend on your project a major household appliance will self-destruct.

6)Sandblasting media does more scattered on a linoleum or hardwood floor than it ever will on your project at 150 psi.

7)Jehova's Witnesses on bicycles will stop at your house while you are up to your armpits in 50-year-old grease.  You will inform them that as long as they are willing to help, you will listen to anything they have to say.  They will leave without saying a word and never return.

8)It frequently costs as much (and is better) to buy a specialized tool and do a task yourself as it is to pay to have the job done.  Besides, you get to keep the tool.

9)Wherever and whenever you order parts for your project there will always be one less in stock than the total number that you need.

10)A restorer's eyes are always bigger than his wallet.

11)A restorer's heart is always bigger than his head.

12)Never pay more for "potential" or for "sentimental value."  Never violate this rule.

13)At some time your spouse will give your child a tool "to help daddy" work on the project.  The child will invariably chip away with it on an exposed, painted surface.  Your spouse will do nothing to stop this and will look lovingly at your offspring, clasp her hands to her bosom and exclaim, "Isn't that CUTE!"  Count to ten while formulating an appropriate response.

14)Someone will come to you and describe what you recognize to be a rare project vehicle that just came up for sale on some obscure county road but (a) "just came up for sale" means they saw it there three years ago, or (b) they can't quite remember which county road it was on because they had never been on it before or (c) any combination thereof.  Before you do anything try to determine if this conversation is divine guidance or is simply the work of Satan.

15)A project that is disassembled takes up ten to fifteen times more space than an assembled one.

16)Many projects are worth more in parts, than all together.  Personally, I think this is some kind of cruel joke.

17)Invariably, many restored parts of your project will find their way into your house.  This is not a bad thing and can give you hours of personal satisfaction as you gaze upon them.

18)Restorations take on a life of their own.....and in fact, some have very sharp teeth.

19)The more time you have, the less money your restoration will cost.  Conversely, lots of money can make a restoration short (and sweet).

20)Any restoration effort will cost at least four times more than you figured.  Any restoration effort will take at least eight times longer than you figured.

"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

sohalz

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2007, 10:19:57 PM »
I have 1996 500cc bike that has 10,000 miles on it. I opened up the gearbox to replace the "pawl" in 2003 but have not completed the repair yet.(Personal reasons)
Finally I have come around & am thinking about riding the bike again.
I am thinking since it has been in-operational so long do I need to replace the whole
-Transmission or
-the whole Engine

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Ofcalipka

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2007, 12:18:03 AM »
If there wasn't anything wrong with it before than there shouldn't be anything wrong with it now just finish changing the pawl.  I would however overhaul the carb if it has been sitting for more than a year as well as do a full service and change out all your fluids, gas and oil that is, and spark plug.
"There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." - Steven Wright

2005 Royal Enfeild Bullet 500 Military,
2006 HD Springer softail 1450,
1980 Puch Maxi,
1995 Ural 650
1978 Peugeot 103 SP
2000 BMW R 1150 RT P

Wahiawa,  HI

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Engine Problems
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2007, 01:45:06 AM »
Ofcalipke is right. Get rid of the olds fluids in the engine, primary case and transmsiioin. oil up the cable, drop a teaspoon of oil in the cylinder, adjust the primary chain, clutch etc, clean the carb, install a fuel filter and new battery, adust the valves and you will also want to check the petrol tank for rust. Bikes of that Vintage did not have lined tanks and were prone to rust. It is not too tough to deal with, but check it. Kick it and ride it like you stole it.