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Author Topic: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!  (Read 5462 times)

reuter

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My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« on: September 19, 2009, 08:37:32 PM »
I Was riding home last night about 10 15 min into my ride I was accelerating through third gear and she coughed sputtered and shut down. I pulled over tried to start her up and nothing. She would turn over but that's it. I let it sit for 15 min then she fired up again. Idled for about 5 then decided to press on. In about 5 blocks same thing just cut off moving through 2nd gear. Not to start again. Went and tried to turn her over this morning nothing. The starter turns but she doesn't catch. Gonna call the dealer and classic motorworks on Monday. WTF. I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to engines. Any thoughts on what this could be.

reuter

The Garbone

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2009, 08:47:52 PM »
Bad fuel pump or loose wire possibly..    I would lean towards a loose wire connection someplace since bike is pretty new being a single does have a bit of vibration..  Spend some time taking a gander at the harness.
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Chris-G5

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2009, 11:23:43 PM »
I had a similar problem with my G5. It cut out and died while cruising in 5th gear and would not restart. I noticed that when the run switch was turned on the fuel pump didn't come on like normal. Can you hear the fuel pump come on for a few seconds when you switch it to run? I tried to start mine for a half an hour and the fuel pump never came on. After getting it back to my house I tried it again and the fuel pump came on and the bike started right up. I was thinking the same as Garbone, bad fuel pump or loose wire. I never found a loose wire and it's been 1200 miles since then with no problem. I heard of another owner that had similar symptoms except his MIL light stayed on, and it turned out to be a loose spade connection. Good luck, hope you get it fixed soon.

reuter

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2009, 11:50:47 PM »
Thanks guys, Gonna have a look around. Let you know how it works out.

Vince

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 02:37:16 PM »
     Half the calls I get on this subject are a fuel problem.  Most of these problems are cured by adding gas. I know it sounds silly, but the easiest thing to do is add a gallon of gas.This is the first thing I would do if you brought it into my shop. A lot of people look in the tank and see gas, then drop it from their mind. This usually results in a lot of unnecessary diagnostic work. Even if you see gas, it may not be enough gas. Put some more in. Simple stuff first.

JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 02:56:44 PM »
Hmm . . .

As it happens, I came on the forum this morning to see if anyone else was having this exact problem.

I went for a ride the other day, mostly low-speed dirt-road travel (I'm still in the break-in period). After running perfectly for a couple of hours, I accidentally killed the engine on a steep climb out of a wash, and it would not restart - no fuel pump. Lights worked, starter worked, no fuel flow.

I suspected low voltage after so much low-RPM running, so I disconnected the headlight, let it sit for 15 minutes, and tried again. Nothing. Checked fuses; checked all the connections I could see, to no avail. Finally I called a friend. When he arrived an hour later, I tried again, and the fuel pump fired right up and so did the bike. I had him follow me back to pavement, and the bike died again. We wound up trailering it home. This morning I tried it again, with no luck. Voltage at the battery is 12.3, so that pretty much eliminates the low-voltage theory.

And if I put another gallon of gas in it, it would overflow. It's only four or five inches from the filler.

Hopefully, since this seems to be a recurring theme, someone will find a definite cause. Right now I won't ride alone, and most of the trips I have planned for the bike are solo.

ace.cafe

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 03:12:29 PM »
Hmm . . .

As it happens, I came on the forum this morning to see if anyone else was having this exact problem.

I went for a ride the other day, mostly low-speed dirt-road travel (I'm still in the break-in period). After running perfectly for a couple of hours, I accidentally killed the engine on a steep climb out of a wash, and it would not restart - no fuel pump. Lights worked, starter worked, no fuel flow.

I suspected low voltage after so much low-RPM running, so I disconnected the headlight, let it sit for 15 minutes, and tried again. Nothing. Checked fuses; checked all the connections I could see, to no avail. Finally I called a friend. When he arrived an hour later, I tried again, and the fuel pump fired right up and so did the bike. I had him follow me back to pavement, and the bike died again. We wound up trailering it home. This morning I tried it again, with no luck. Voltage at the battery is 12.3, so that pretty much eliminates the low-voltage theory.

And if I put another gallon of gas in it, it would overflow. It's only four or five inches from the filler.

Hopefully, since this seems to be a recurring theme, someone will find a definite cause. Right now I won't ride alone, and most of the trips I have planned for the bike are solo.

Umm, 12.3v is a low battery condition.
A fully charged battery should be near 13v.
If it's 12v, it's flat as a pancake.

It could be caused by some other reason, but your battery condition IS low.
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 04:55:52 PM »
Hmm, okay. I thought 12.3 should be sufficient. The lights work fine and the starter motor turns fine. When I test the leads to the fuel pump, though, I get NO power. At the solenoid I get 11.7 on two hot leads with the ignition on. Seems like there should be something showing at the fuel pump.

Chasfield

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2009, 05:03:03 PM »
It might only get energised when line pressure falls back. You can hear my car fuel pump kick in first thing in the morning when the ignition is turned on, then it cuts out until further fuel flow is demanded by the EFI black box.
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2009, 05:18:07 PM »
Could the ECU cut off all power to the fuel pump if it deems there is insufficient voltage for it? I guess I'll hook the battery to a charger and see if that makes a difference.

ace.cafe

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2009, 11:11:00 PM »
I really don't know the answer to the issue.
All I was commenting about is the battery conditon, which may or may not be causing the problem.

However, I can tell you that motors are alot different than running a light, because they have to pull about 3 times their normal current to get started, and that can be a problem with a low battery.

But, it could be anything from a loose wire or dirty connection, or whatever.
I really don't know.
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 01:38:10 PM »
Current status is, I put the battery on a charger and ran it to 14.1 volts. Installed, key on, lights come on, fuel pump solenoid clicks, fuel pump does not come on. Still stumped.

t120rbullet

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 01:56:02 PM »
Did you try unplugging and re-plugging the connector to the fuel pump?
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 02:40:46 PM »
Yes. In addition to the connection right at the pump, there's another quick-connect about four inches upstream, which has three wires going into it but only two, a red and a black, continuing to the pump. When I test voltage there with the key on I get nothing, which leads me to believe the problem is not the pump itself.

Vince

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 03:50:42 PM »
     Thankfully, I have not had this issue. At home the best you can do is check the gas, battery and wiring/connections. At this point I would take it to the dealer for warranty work. If you start "fixing" it you may void the warranty. How ever inconvenient this may be, It will help not only yourself, but the entire Enfield community. These kind of problems need to be logged and tracked to effect a cure.

t120rbullet

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 03:59:08 PM »
These are not things that I want to hear about as I ready myself for a 1,700 mile trip on mine.
By myself.
All alone.
In the rain.
With nothing but a Visa card and a Cell Phone to protect myself against those crazy mid-west farmers.
CJ
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 04:25:58 PM »
I agree with you, as I have several remote trips planned. However, so far I'm more curious than annoyed; I'm thinking of it as a teething problem that likely has a simple solution. But in the meantime I have a dead motorcycle! I need a shop manual.

And for perspective: My friend's brand new $12,000 BMW GS850 developed the habit of stalling on him at the worst possible times. The dealer finally figured out that the fancy fuel gauge was reading a quarter full when it was actually empty.

Chris-G5

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 07:08:18 PM »
Current status is, I put the battery on a charger and ran it to 14.1 volts. Installed, key on, lights come on, fuel pump solenoid clicks, fuel pump does not come on. Still stumped.
Thats how mine was. You could here the solenoid click but the fuel pump didn't come on. Luckily it started working again on its own and have had no problems since. Try hitting the fuel pump with a rubber mallet. It could be in a bind and that could break it loose. I have seen this problem in cars and a swift hit with a mallet to the gas tank will unbind the pump and it will work again.

JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 08:10:06 PM »
Don't think whacking the pump will work, since I'm getting no power to the connection to the pump. I'm about to pull the seat off and look under there at every other connection I can find.

In terms of taking it to the dealer; unfortunately that's a 200-mile trailer ride, one way. And a big part of the goal with this G5 as a long-term review vehicle is to see just how user-friendly it remains with the fuel injection system. So this glitch is actually a good test.

cyrusb

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2009, 08:11:01 PM »
JMHAZ, Bullet originals have allmost the same problem as the BMW you mentioned. The reserve pickup on my bullet is so high that it leaves about a gallon for reserve. When you look in the tank it looks half full.  Someday, I'll take out the petcock and cut it down. But until I learned this, all of my "Bike Shutdowns" were caused by this. The only thing I can think of is there must be huge distances between gas stations in India.

1Blackwolf1

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2009, 08:37:36 PM »
  I'll probably get whacked for this one but here we go.  Been working on fuelies for a while now gassers and diesels.  Try bleeding the fuel pressure off the line from the tank to injection module.  If there is a line or fitting to the injector (don't have an Enfield fuelie but Kawasakis that are) crack that also to see if it has air lock.  Fuel injection is great until it gets a gulp of air, believe me. 

  Your injectors normally shut-off in the fully pressurized state, the cointrol unit shuts down the impulse(more than probably) to keep the engine from flooding/floating injectors.  Of course like I say I have no experience with Enfields with fuel injection.  Just giving you an option since you are an all day journry to and from a dealer.  Will.
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r80rt

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2009, 09:58:31 PM »
These are not things that I want to hear about as I ready myself for a 1,700 mile trip on mine.
By myself.
All alone.
In the rain.
With nothing but a Visa card and a Cell Phone to protect myself against those crazy mid-west farmers.
CJ
I am very close to 3000 miles on my C5, never had any problems of any kind. Head for the rally! :D
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2009, 10:37:20 PM »
 
Quote
I'll probably get whacked for this one but here we go.  Been working on fuelies for a while now gassers and diesels.  Try bleeding the fuel pressure off the line from the tank to injection module.  If there is a line or fitting to the injector (don't have an Enfield fuelie but Kawasakis that are) crack that also to see if it has air lock.  Fuel injection is great until it gets a gulp of air, believe me. 

  Your injectors normally shut-off in the fully pressurized state, the cointrol unit shuts down the impulse(more than probably) to keep the engine from flooding/floating injectors.  Of course like I say I have no experience with Enfields with fuel injection.  Just giving you an option since you are an all day journry to and from a dealer.  Will.

Will, you won't get whacked from me. That's an interesting theory, and easy to try. Thanks.

Jonathan

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2009, 10:43:48 PM »
  Just make sure you keep your face and hands from the direct spray from the lines/fittings..remember the fuel is/could be under pressure.  Wear safety glasses and leather gloves to protect yourself.  Will.
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t120rbullet

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2009, 11:56:22 PM »
I am very close to 3000 miles on my C5, never had any problems of any kind. Head for the rally! :D

That's what I bought the G5 for.
I don't think my 99 had many more trips like that in it.
The G5 is going to be there one way or the other.
CJ
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r80rt

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2009, 12:20:36 AM »
You won't have any thing to worry about. I'll see you there on Saturday. I don't have time for the whole rally so I'll ride up Sat morning early and leave in the afternoon.
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2009, 12:27:50 AM »
Hey! No discussing bikes that are running in a stalled-bike thread.

Leonard

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 03:36:11 AM »
You won't have any thing to worry about. I'll see you there on Saturday. I don't have time for the whole rally so I'll ride up Sat morning early and leave in the afternoon.

Looking forward to meeting you AND seeing your bike.
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r80rt

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2009, 11:59:54 AM »
 I can't hardly wait to meet fellow Enfield riders and see the bikes.
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JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2009, 11:57:22 PM »
I found the problem - at least on my bike. Faulty side-stand cut-off switch.

After stripping the bike down and checking every connection, I started thinking about the things that are supposed to prevent the engine running under certain circumstances. The infamous side-stand switch came to mind immediately. I unplugged it, the fuel pump spooled right up, and the engine started instantly.

So - Any of you G5/C5 riders who experience this syndrome when you turn the key: lights come on, neutral light comes on, starter turns over fine, plenty of power from the battery, but no engine light and no sound from the fuel pump - just unplug the side-stand cut-off switch and see if that fixes it.

After taking a break while checking connections, I came back out to the shop and found that, as usual, if you start work on a motorcycle, spectators show up out of nowhere:


Vince

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 12:14:07 AM »
     Thanks for the update! Now tell me why the wired the switch into the fuel pump. They could have done it with the coil and simply inhibited spark, or cut out the electric starter. It would have been easier to diagnose. Oh well. Glad you found it. Now I hope I can remember! It gets so fuzzy.... What was the question?

r80rt

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 12:16:04 AM »
Glad you found it to be a simple fix! I'll store that for future use :D
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Chris-G5

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2009, 12:21:31 AM »
Glad you got her fixed. What kind of tortoise do you have there?

JMHAZ

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2009, 12:30:52 AM »
Desert tortoise, a youngster. We live about 40 miles outside Tucson in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2009, 09:45:29 AM »
  Good you're going again.  Don't know why the engineers made it that these won't start with the side stand down.  Most other bikes make the engine stall if you select first gear with the stand down.  Maybe they can correct that in the future, but hey at least now you know.  Will.
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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2009, 02:16:34 PM »
I've removed the side stand switch from my AVL, along with the clutch lever switch. The clutch lever switch wasn't working properly and I thought the side stand switch was unnecessary. I think they were added to the bike to solve a problem that never existed.

My tortoises have never shown much interest in bikes.

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2009, 02:22:44 PM »
I've removed the side stand switch from my AVL, along with the clutch lever switch. The clutch lever switch wasn't working properly and I thought the side stand switch was unnecessary. I think they were added to the bike to solve a problem that never existed.

My tortoises have never shown much interest in bikes.

Royal Enfields have a clutch lever switch?

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2009, 04:28:12 PM »
  Good you're going again.  Don't know why the engineers made it that these won't start with the side stand down.  Most other bikes make the engine stall if you select first gear with the stand down.  Maybe they can correct that in the future, but hey at least now you know.  Will.
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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2009, 05:33:26 PM »
Royal Enfields have a clutch lever switch?

Yep - allows the e-start to work with the bike in gear (or an unplugged neutral indicator light as mine came from the dealer...).

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan
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Kruiser

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2009, 06:10:19 PM »
Yep - allows the e-start to work with the bike in gear (or an unplugged neutral indicator light as mine came from the dealer...).

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan

Oh ok. I was going to say mine starts without pulling in the clutch when the bike in neutral.

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2009, 08:42:44 PM »
Br. JMHAZ, that's good news and great information for the C/G5 owners!!!  By the way, your Bullet-admiring-turtle simply has good taste!!!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

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ace.cafe

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2009, 08:52:36 PM »
     All of these safety features are driven by a legal system driven amok by the idea that the consumer is not responsible for himself.

Agreed.
If I had any of that stuff on my bike, it would be yanked-off there by morning.
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chinoy

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2009, 04:58:47 PM »
Facing same problem on my bike.
I think you saved me a lot of time.
Thanks

Hint bike dies out in the middle of no where.
Then when you hit the starter button nothing happens. Then you pull the clutch in and out a few times and it starts working.
Cuts out while riding sometimes.

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2009, 01:24:38 AM »
If I had any of that stuff on my bike, it would be yanked-off there by morning.
I can see your point, but clutch and side stand cutout switches have been around since the advent of mass production electronic ignition - for more than 30 years.

In that time, while they've unquestionably caused some consternation as described in this thread, they've inarguably saved untold thousands of dollars in vehicle damage (and immeasurable 'pride' damage) not to mention the odd broken wrist or ankle.

Features such as these cutout switches really are a testament to the customer service efforts of major manufacturers.  It isn't easy to balance such decades old innovations against a more traditional approach to motorcycling, that involves greater personal responsibility (until something goes haywire with one's own, of course - then it's sure-as-sh!t someone else's fault).  From my point of view, it tells me Royal Enfield are stepping up and playing with the big boys.

Because these features are so cheap and (arguably) offer a pr oven benefit to some product owners, from a legal standpoint, it's suicide not to include these on the bike.

After all, of the pool of potential Royal Enfield buyers, there are more than experienced, knowledgeable riders such as yourself.

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

ace.cafe

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2009, 03:03:09 AM »
Well, to each his own, I suppose.

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Ice

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2009, 07:02:55 AM »
Self inflicted wound should be painful.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

chinoy

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2009, 04:50:35 AM »
Just a quick update.
Indian customers do not get a side stand switch. Its just the clutch s/w.
I tried pulling mine off but if you do that the bike wont start.
Which means Ive got to short a few wires to by-pass it.
So just plugged it back on.
At least now I know whats causing it. So if it cuts or the starter button feels dead. I just pump the clutch a few times and it fires up. My Fuel sensor is still shot. And Im still waiting for the up turned exhaust to land up at the dealer.
The stock Exhaust is absurdly restrictive. And this is with a single cat con.



ScooterBob

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2009, 08:54:30 PM »
Agreed.
If I had any of that stuff on my bike, it would be yanked-off there by morning.

This is one of the reasons that Old Brit bikes appeal to me - They are NOT made for some soft-handed mamby-pamby whose only requisite for owning a motorcycle is the ability to write a big check. You CAN start it in gear, you CAN ride off with the sidestand down, you CAN let the clutch out and take off because there is no neutral light .... It takes a MOTORCYCLIST to operate one! I had some gnarly skate punk walk up to me on the Norton in a parking lot when I was starting it and say "Cool, dood - That's one of those old bikes that you have to pump up before ride it ....." I about bit the end of my tongue off to keep from laughing at the youngster .....
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

Ice

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2009, 12:20:41 AM »
" I about bit the end of my tongue off to keep from laughing at the youngster .....
I keep a rotary dial phone for power outages.
Neighbor kid said "hat phone is kewl,,,, how do you work it ?"
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

UncleErnie

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2009, 05:30:18 PM »
Perspective, I guess.
I laughed when someone pointed at the bicycle pedal on my kicker and asked what that paddle was for.  Yet- I can't do much with one of these picture boxes besides answer e-mail and read forums. 
Run what ya brung

ScooterBob

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Re: My C5 Engine stalled now it wont start !!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2009, 05:40:54 PM »
Perspective, I guess.
I laughed when someone pointed at the bicycle pedal on my kicker and asked what that paddle was for.  Yet- I can't do much with one of these picture boxes besides answer e-mail and read forums. 

I'm right there with ya on that, Ernie. The computer is a tool to me - not a toy. I use what I have to get it DONE .... then get away. Posting here is the closest that I'll come to "recreation" - that and I'm hopelessly addicted to the oh-so-cute-pictures on LOLcats .... Perspective indeed!
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!