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Author Topic: Mileages on the C5/G5  (Read 5773 times)

hocko

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Mileages on the C5/G5
« on: October 18, 2009, 11:46:48 PM »
Hi all,

As you people in the States have access to the new models for a lot longer than us here down under, I was wondering what sort of mileages have been ridden and what if any issues regarding reliability etc, have been encountered in that time over the distances covered. I'm only just coming up to the 1000 km mark (Aprox. 600 miles) and have it all in front of me.

Thanks for your time and imput.

Cheers  :)

r80rt

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 11:52:49 PM »
4000 miles on my C5 with no problems, It's been nothing but fun for me.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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thefieldworker

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 02:06:37 AM »
About 3,000 on the G5, no problems. Wish I had more time to ride.

csbdr

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 03:47:44 PM »
I'm about 1400 and doing great!  Only issue was a little frost in the starter button this morning kept it from working.  Panicky couple minutes!  Short time in the sun and all was well.

t120rbullet

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 05:58:15 PM »
I have got about 3,500 miles on my G5 so far.
Only problems have been an exhaust leak that has been defeating me so far (but I will win someday) and a dodgy fuel injector connector.
A small price to pay considering it was one of the first bikes off the line.
Aside from that it's been push the button and go.
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
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Leonard

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 07:08:31 PM »
I have got about 3,500 miles on my G5 so far.
Only problems have been an exhaust leak that has been defeating me so far (but I will win someday) and a dodgy fuel injector connector.
A small price to pay considering it was one of the first bikes off the line.
Aside from that it's been push the button and go.
CJ


Was the fuel injector connector the cause of the problem with it on your way back from the Rally?
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2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
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t120rbullet

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 09:38:30 PM »
Was the fuel injector connector the cause of the problem with it on your way back from the Rally?

I hope so!
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
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Chris-G5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 11:21:15 PM »
Just less than 3000 on my G5. Had a loose wire on the fuel pump connector that left me dead on the road a couple of times. These bikes seem to get better and better with milage.

hocko

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 01:19:18 AM »
Thanks for the replies, sounds encourging, the only problem that I have had was of my own doing by overfilling the oil at the first oil change (500km). More fool me for following the manual.

Cheers all  :)

JamesC5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 09:54:35 AM »
2100 on mine.

Bikes been ok, but not amazing.

Connection in the headlamp needed re-crimping, I just took the bike in for it's service and apparently the bushes on my suspension are worn already!! I ride the bike very carefully and don't offroad or anything.. so a bit suspect. The parts have been ordered so will need to get a day off to take it to get the work done.

Then yesterday I was pulling away when I heard a loud pop, look down and my air filter box is hanging open. The rubbish white metal holding the latch just shattered popping the filter open. I had to get someone to ride to a DIY store and buy duct tape which is now adorning my bike to keep it shut :(

Taking it over to the local RE place now to get the parts ordered.

The 'leather'  material on the seat came unglued on one side and I had to reglue it to the seat.

Oh and the silencer is starting to yellow like others have experienced, but I've been considering replacing that anyway.

Next time I'll wait 6 months before buying a new model methinks.
2009 Royal Enfield Bullet Classic C5
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JamesC5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 04:54:38 PM »
Well, lets see...

When we removed the piece of tape that was used to keep the air filter box closed while I was stuck out on the road, we saw the lacquer was actually pulled off. This is tape that doesn't even pull indoor paint off, incredible.

10 days later, I still can't ride, the lock is on back order with no estimate of when it will arrive, and WS will not replace the lid as "he shouldn't have put tape on it". I guess I could say the lock shouldn't have shattered after only 6 months and popping open the air filter box while on the road.

I've had enough!
2009 Royal Enfield Bullet Classic C5
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The Garbone

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 05:27:21 PM »
Well, lets see...

When we removed the piece of tape that was used to keep the air filter box closed while I was stuck out on the road, we saw the lacquer was actually pulled off. This is tape that doesn't even pull indoor paint off, incredible.

10 days later, I still can't ride, the lock is on back order with no estimate of when it will arrive, and WS will not replace the lid as "he shouldn't have put tape on it". I guess I could say the lock shouldn't have shattered after only 6 months and popping open the air filter box while on the road.

I've had enough!

Although I don't own a C5/G5 I did have a warranty on my bike the first year I owned it.  I think working with a dealer or a "Free" warranty claim is were most of my dissatisfaction came from.  Sure the bike broke but the warranty made me take less ownership of the problems. 

Your airbox issue would probably best been solved by finding a local welder and paying him a few pounds to put the tab on correctly.  Deep down we all know that an indian replacement part will be much more likely to suffer the same failure again than if a knowledgeable local craftsman had had there hand in fixing it.  Put a large zip tie around the box and ride it to a welder...
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

JamesC5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 10:17:28 AM »
Well the problem is I paid a good £1500 more than the previous bullet with the promise of modern reliability and have had bits snapping off all over the place. Getting stuck on Dartmoor with the air filter box dangling open I had to get home somehow, and now RE will not honour their warranty because I used a piece of tape to keep it closed until I got home!

I figured at worst a bit of tape may leave a blob of adhesive on the finish that would need to be cleaned off, not that the bikes lacquer would prove less durable than the tape!  If I had available zip ties or string and they cut into the lacquer with as much ease I'd still not be getting any help from RE UK, they simply expect customers to put up with the quality and fix / upgrade poor parts themselves. That is simply the opposite to what was promised with this "new" generation of RE's.
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Dannyboy

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 12:16:11 PM »
Well the problem is I paid a good £1500 more than the previous bullet with the promise of modern reliability and have had bits snapping off all over the place. Getting stuck on Dartmoor with the air filter box dangling open I had to get home somehow, and now RE will not honour their warranty because I used a piece of tape to keep it closed until I got home!

I figured at worst a bit of tape may leave a blob of adhesive on the finish that would need to be cleaned off, not that the bikes lacquer would prove less durable than the tape!  If I had available zip ties or string and they cut into the lacquer with as much ease I'd still not be getting any help from RE UK, they simply expect customers to put up with the quality and fix / upgrade poor parts themselves. That is simply the opposite to what was promised with this "new" generation of RE's.

I think you should expect better James. I have been reading posts on this forum with a view to getting one of the new bikes but I have to say that your experiences are putting me off. I think I'll wait a bit longer before taking the plunge...

The Garbone

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 03:04:12 PM »
It may be a better engine ,  but at the core its still made in India and still and Enfield...   My advice would to fix minor things yourself and only use the warranty on major failures like dropped valves or a bad bearing.  Ride it like you stole it.  Dealers make no real money on warranty and the bike will sit waiting on parts.   My coil on my bike went out last 2 nights ago,  if I had called the or brought it to dealer I would be lucky if the part got ordered yesterday, and then I would have to wait a week for it to show up and have the dealer install it. Add to that you model is new and they seem not to have spare parts built up and have to special order your box for a 2 bit latch you could have taken and got fixed in less than 30 minutes at a welder, well,  its gonna sit, and your gonna get pissed.    Ask the dealer if they will reimburse you for a weld job if you get it fixed yourself ,  unlikely but hey,  it means you can ride there ya go.

Also, there is a reason you should not put bumper stickers on your car except for the on windows,  and thats because it will damage the paint and lower resale value. They make those decals that say they won't damage paint,  but are you really going to bet money on it, because thats what your doing if you put the decal/tape on paint.   Next time use twine..
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2009, 04:14:05 PM »
This does make someone interested in the new bike, reconsider.
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The Garbone

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 04:30:01 PM »
Agreed, its why I bought an Iron lunger, I figured if I was going to deal with less than Honda reliability I might as well go all in..   
Gary
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67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

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r80rt

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 10:44:37 PM »
Don't paint all the new bikes with the same brush, mine's been an outstanding motorcycle!
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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The Garbone

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 12:00:35 AM »
Don't paint all the new bikes with the same brush, mine's been an outstanding motorcycle!

Hmmmph,  Wrap that puppy in tape and get back to us then...      ;) 

;D
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Eamon

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 12:53:21 AM »
Don't paint all the new bikes with the same brush, mine's been an outstanding motorcycle!

Yes, my brother's G5 has been a great bike as well.  I think he has over 2000 miles on it and it has really come into its own.  No troubles for him except a leaky gas cap (replaced by Vince on warranty).  I wouldn't hesitate to buy one at all if I were shopping for a bike.

Eamon
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 04:54:34 AM »
  I  do appreciate the frustration that overseas service issues may causes those of you from non-US countries. Please take these issues to someone who can actually help you. CMW or the members of this forum can't fix any issues with importers from around the world. I am pasting an excerpt from the rules and regulations we all agreed upon when we joined the forum below

If you have a complaint about a dealer, Classic Motorworks  or your Royal Enfield, please contact someone who can actually do something  about it. Our contact information  is in the sidebar on the left or you can get your dealers contact information here www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/dealerlist. Complaining on the forum will not help you fix your problem, but perhaps we can.

I don't intend to single out any particular person here and am not aiming my comments at James alone, but the purpose here is to support each other and help each other.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 03:22:47 PM by Kevin Mahoney »

Rusty

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2009, 09:26:29 AM »
Kevin, I understand your position as the US importer but I think thatís a little unfair.

As regards complaints about dealers I donít believe anybody has been unreasonable in their posting if the context has been poor after sales service. These are valid experiences of (mostly) the UK importer/dealer set up and I think RE would want to know about them if theyíre truly targeting a global market.

My own experiences have been mixed. Iím generally disappointed with level of care and skill applied to the recall mechanical work but pleased that my dealer has agreed to replace some damaged components and the stock exhaust (the cat has become loose).

Iíve always maintained that the riding experience is superb but itís clear to me that RE are still experiencing inconsistencies in build quality. Given that the C5 is a completely new design aimed at new RE customers I think theyíll be disappointed with thatÖÖprovided theyíre made aware.

Nobody is saying that all the UCE bikes are poor, thatís obviously not the case but equally not everybody is totally satisfied.

If you want a forum full of only positive comments then thatís fine, itís your forum. I think youíd have to accept though that its value in terms of being a useful reference point for potential new customers is diminished.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 03:21:51 PM »
Rusty,
You make some good points and I am being a bit defensive as I re-read my post.
 If you look around the forum you will see that there are lots of less than wonderful comments. We do not normally edit these. However complaining about specific dealers etc. is not productive nor does it follow the rules. It does not help anything or anyone. Perhaps I take service issues too personally but the rules are there for a reason. We make lots of mistakes and can be legitimately be criticized at times but I think an owners experience in the US may be quite different than an owners experience in other countries.
  Getting bad service in this country is my concern and something I want to know about. The only effective way to do that is to contact us directly. I cannot do anything about service related issues elsewhere nor can anyone from this board. If you have an issue with a specific dealer importer etc. that issue needs to be taken up with them.
   Having said all that, most issues stem from communication issues. I remember when the recall came about James seemed to suffer from a lack of clear communication from his UK dealer. I think the experience was quite the opposite here. To be fair we have no way of knowing what his dealer was or wasn't told.
  On the subject of warranty, Royal Enfield  is very generous in it's application of it's warranty policy. Most if not all decisions are made at the importer level. There are some hard and fast rules about abuse, racing, modifications etc. but in the gray areas it is usually a local call. In the US if a dealer has a question about coverage they call us. We normally give them an answer right then and there or within a day or so. (there are times we take a couple of days if we are really busy). warranty claims are filed on-line in the US and they are normally approved or disapproved within 24 hours. If they are disapproved (probably amounts to 2 claims so far this year) there is lots of discussion and communication that goes on. The customer would be well informed about what is going on and why. We also listen to appeals. We deny so few claims (our customers are very very reasonable which helps) that it usually is not an issue.
  We do draw the line sometimes and do run into unreasonable requests and customers, but it is very very rare.
  Basically this is a CMW forum and I can control what is done in the US, but nowhere else. This is not a way to pass information along to the home office or other importers. I expect to hear complaints about service issues when they are something I can do something about.
  In short I take your points to heart, but complain where it will do some good unless you really aren't interested in a solution.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 04:11:53 PM »
A couple of points along the lines of communication

Several bikes have suffered from the discoloration of the silencer toward the back. This is a direct result of the catalytic converter. ALL  motorcycles suffer from heat discoloration on the chrome. NO ONE guarantees it. However RE has done a lot of experimenting with double wall pipes etc and have still found that it cannot be effectively controlled. A cat is hot and that is about all there is to it. However they are doing what other brands have done and that is to develop further shielding. They are designing and producing some longer shields to cover up the discoloration. When they are finished and shipped (not before the first of the year) they will be offered to all customers who have the problem free of charge.

Scooter Bob has discovered a way to repair those seats that have required re-gluing. It is a much better repair than re-gluing and is easy. I will try to post some pictures below, but we will see how that goes. The trim is stuff we bought at an auto parts store

Be careful about what you are told or assume about spare parts availability. On average (in the US) parts are readily available. We have more parts in our warehouse than the factory does. We have 0ver 10,000 square feet of parts valued at well over a million dollars. When it comes to modern day Enfields I dare say there is not a larger stock of parts anywhere else in the world. (Allan H. has more parts overall since he is huge into Vintage Enfields). Of course with nature being what it is, you can be assured that whatever part you need is out of stock. Ideally your dealer stocks parts (this is one measure of a how good a dealer is). If they don't we typically ship same day if orders are put in before about noon. I cannot speak for other countries. If we are out of a critical part and we know it is a critical situation we can usually scrounge something up pretty quickly. We strip a bike if we have to. We also have many other resources. We have agreements with suppliers all over the world to back us up. Sometimes that fails as well however. Our parts fill rate is now in the high 90%. Especially for OEM parts. Most dealers tell us that we can supply parts better than many of the major brands. There are times where we just plain have to wait for a part from the factory, but it is pretty rare. I realize that this is not a good answer if you are the guy waiting for the part, but this is the "inside" story on parts in the US.

ace.cafe

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 04:33:32 PM »
I think it's inevitable that some people are going to have some complaints about something, in any consumer product.
It's the nature of business dealings.

In all fairness, I think alot of the complaints we're seeing on this UCE forum, are from the UK, which is an entirely different sales and service network.
Aside from being the same brand of bike, there is basically nothing else related between the businesses running these operations in different countries.

So, to my way of thinking, complaining on a US forum, which is a property of the US Importer, about warrantee and service issues related to the UK importer and service network, seems a bit obtuse to me.
The US bikes have seen very good records for the most part, as attested by the owners here on this forum, and have received service and warrantee action which seems to be acceptable to the UCE riders here, and there are very few complaints, because Kevin goes above and beyond to ensure the satisfaction of the customers here. Even in the face of a very difficult and complex situation of a large recall of the early bikes.

It is not in Kevin's purview to be able to control the UK importer's service or satisfy their customers over there.
A complaint here only serves to put doubts in the minds of prospective buyers of bikes here, who may very well receive a perfect bike and laudable service if they were to purchase a bike here.

I do think it's useful when issues are brought up for owners to be mindful of, and helpful remedies suggested.
However, I also think that  bitching about how pissed off you are at WS or your dealer in the UK, or comments intended to put people off the product in general, is not helpful to people on this site, nor to the success of the marque here in the US

We see nothing but good comments and instructive helpful hints about early ownership experiences with these UCE bikes from owners here in the US.

Perhaps the Watsonian or Hitchcock's board would be a more appropriate place to whine about what's going on with the importer and dealer network in the UK.
It's a matter of using the appropriate venues for airing complaints.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 04:39:34 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 05:07:06 PM »
     I think most of us are smart enough to determine what is a service problem and what is a design/quality control problem. I think we can also differentiate between what is a UK issue and what is a USA issue.
     When i read james's posts I am more concerned with bike issues rather than service issues. I am appreciative of his posting what is actually wrong with the bike, and can dismiss the service issues. As long as I can separate the two, i am fine, and hope he keeps posting.
   As someone who is maybe considering a G5 in the future, I think censoring the complaints would be a disservice to me and potential buyers.
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 05:28:38 PM »
You should note that we have censored nothing. I agree with your point of view totally and the forum is full of such comments both good and bad. But it is not obvious to the casual observer which country a complaint originates in. Also the service issues are not my issues if they come from a different country. I too value James comments as far they concerns things that may have gone wrong and for which he is seeking some help. That is legitimate and well within the rules of the board.

He is also a good active member. This is good for the community in general. (Must be kind of weird for James to see us talking about him in the third person.)  We (I ) also welcome and enjoy news, thoughts and other things about the RE scene in the UK that he and other non-US members bring to the party. I have probably blown this into something it should not be by publishing my stream of consciousness. I should have been more measured and circumspect. (Not my strong suite).

Rusty

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 09:42:24 PM »
It's a matter of using the appropriate venues for airing complaints.

I agree entirely and the most appropriate venue must be the one which enjoys most exposure if RE are to benefit from balanced feedback. We would hope that the outcome of such feedback would be improved build quality.

This forum has a dedicated section for UCE bikes, I've not found another which has that so in my opinion it's the most appropriate place to relate my experiences. That's all I'm doing, it serves no purpose to simply bitch or whine.

Itís not just a US market.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2009, 09:49:27 PM »
Those who can post hopefully can also read. The very title of this blog is, I quote: "Royal Enfield U.S. Community Forum". Probably it does not require above average IQ to decipher the meaning of this title.
On a side note:
1) Our clients are HAPPY with their bikes. (Maybe this is why you cannot read their comments here)
2) We also run a motorcycle rental operation at www.AZride.com with Royal Enfield motorcycles in the fleet. They perform absolutely great.
3) If any issues come up, Kevin and his (U.S.) team go miles to solve it. I have worked only with very few people being similarly reasonable in my entire career. These guys are focused on the solution, not on their ego. A rare treasure!
4) Born and raised in Europe I believe I understand some of the cultural differences. Bashing, whining and vitriolic criticism are more common and a lot cooler in the Old Continent. PLEASE KEEP IT THERE! Thanks.~ Gabor
It is good to ride
REAZ

REpozer

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2009, 12:47:16 AM »
Hi all,

As you people in the States have access to the new models for a lot longer than us here down under, I was wondering what sort of mileages have been ridden and what if any issues regarding reliability etc, have been encountered in that time over the distances covered. I'm only just coming up to the 1000 km mark (Aprox. 600 miles) and have it all in front of me.

Thanks for your time and imput.

Cheers  :)
Our Aussie friend asked a simple and good question. I bet Hocko had no idea he was lighting a short fuse on a large powder keg.

CMW of USA encourages world wide participation, some folks in different parts of the world ( or US)will not have a necessarily great experience with RE, but still enjoy the forum.Don't be shocked if some expresses themselves or the RE in a negative way.I vie read some Indian forums that call them clunkers.( I disagree ,so what ever)

Hocko may not be aware that the UCE made its first showing, in the UK, along with its first run production wort's and logistics problems. I assume that REM made some improvements to remove some wort's before delivering  the bike to the USA. Thus we have a happier bunch or maybe Kevin is just that good or both.

Now James and Rusty shared and an honest answer to a simple question, and seemly got a slight kick in the teeth for doing so, and I hope they are not offended.
 Any informed reader can conclude that the UK has its share of RE UCE problems. And then ask "why are the US folks are happier."?

In closing I would like to share some Ole School advice" never purchase a first year production run till all the bugs are worked out" . Use that with cars , boats, airplanes, and maybe even motorcycles.
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r80rt

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2009, 01:46:14 AM »
I bought the first year production run and am very happy with it, if no one buys the first year, there may not be a second. ;)
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2009, 02:43:46 AM »
excellent point...
Oh Magoo you done it again

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2009, 10:47:10 AM »
Well I didn't mean to offend. From what I have heard and seen of the US Royal Enfield team I have no doubt that if I had purchased my bike there, I'd be a much happier person.

Indeed I usually mention dealers and Watsonian Squire and my info states I'm in the UK, so poor service and complaints about dealers should be easy to note that I'm not trying to put any blame on RE US or even RE in general.

However, the quality of my bike as a machine IS, in my opinion, sub-standard. Maybe I'm just the unlucky few, and the US C5's came out some time later than the early UK batch so maybe we early birds were just unlucky, but I've not made anything up or blown anything out of proportion on what has gone wrong.

I listed all problems with the bike as was originally asked, and I don't even really mind about things like the seat and the silencer discolouration and I state thus, but when the problems add up and as of now, I'm without the ability to ride yet again, it does make one wonder whats going on.

I tend to post here as I enjoy the people who post here and this wether by design or not, is the best source for RE outside of India. Unfortunately discussing service to anyone including directly with the official UK dealers and importers does nothing to improve their service as they seem unwilling.
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2009, 03:19:14 PM »
I apologize for being a bit blunt with a few of my previous comments.

From what I 've been reading here, if I was in a similar situation, I'd avoid any further warrantee claims, and take over the responsibility for care and repair of my own bike, as the evidence presented seem to suggest that the UK service network seems to be unsatisfactory in being as accommodating as expected.
At some point, it becomes evident that you are not going to get the service that you expected from them in a timely manner(if at all), and it becomes apparent that you must take over the responsibility for the bike's well-being yourself, so as to avoid further aggro from the UK service network.

While this might not seem to be the ideal solution, it is one solution which removes part of the aggravation, and still keeps the bike running.
That's what many of us do from day one, with our older classic models.

Perhaps it might be a good idea for the factory diagnostic and service items for the electronic ECU and EFI to be available for customers to take over their own work.
And that may already be available, but I just haven't looked into it.
That would be the first stuff I'd buy, if I were a UCE owner.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 03:30:26 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2009, 06:45:44 PM »
REM is most defiantly a hands on bike.

I have had no real problems with my AVL engine. ( I unplugged the side stand switch for no-start problem). Its not ever left me walking.

The rest have been small issues with the frame.  I am amazed with the contradictions on it. The hand work on the aluminum , the paint and other artistic stuff is amazing, then a look behind the head lamp makes me wonder if the department head of  wiring  was sick or on holiday the day my RE went in production.

Over all I am happy with CMW , my dealer and my RE motorcycle.

P.S, my seat leatherette needs some work, But its still a great ride, and a real head turner.
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2009, 12:48:08 AM »
Well I didn't mean to offend. From what I have heard and seen of the US Royal Enfield team I have no doubt that if I had purchased my bike there, I'd be a much happier person.

Indeed I usually mention dealers and Watsonian Squire and my info states I'm in the UK, so poor service and complaints about dealers should be easy to note that I'm not trying to put any blame on RE US or even RE in general.

However, the quality of my bike as a machine IS, in my opinion, sub-standard. Maybe I'm just the unlucky few, and the US C5's came out some time later than the early UK batch so maybe we early birds were just unlucky, but I've not made anything up or blown anything out of proportion on what has gone wrong.

I listed all problems with the bike as was originally asked, and I don't even really mind about things like the seat and the silencer discolouration and I state thus, but when the problems add up and as of now, I'm without the ability to ride yet again, it does make one wonder whats going on.


RE is not the only company with problems on their bikes. Ducati has had problems with their Sport Classic line, Tanks spreading, pimpling, chrome peeling, EFI issues. While I have had all of these issues on my GT1000 the Dealers and Ducati have worked to correct and or replace items to make the bike right.

Reading through this thread it seems that the dealers you have are more of a lemon than the bike.

Being from the "Land of Fruits and Nuts" (California) I have no experience with RE products but do plan to check them out when they become available here next year.

Keep the info coming,

Vince

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2009, 01:46:12 AM »
As I look at the "fix" for the seat I realized that I didn't upload a picture of the finished product. I will be back in the office on Tuesday and will try to remember to do that. They look better than factory new when trimmed like this.

I would have to agree with James last post. The issues he has experienced are very real and I think I got a bit defensive about how hard our dealers work herein the US  to service their customers.

It occurred to me today while writing the factory that the recall may have been a blessing in disguise for us in the US. It gave Scooter Bob and our dealers like Gabor and Vince a chance to go through these "early models" intimately before they got to the customers. I think this helped take care of niggling issues that may have come from the factory.

In service  so far they have been wonderful. We have had a couple of side stand switches go bad, an O2 sensor, a couple of improperly crimped connectors on the EFI system. I think Chris from this line had one of those. The only way to find them was to look from the back side and really check the connector out. Simple to fix, difficult to find.
The usual shipping damage, paint blemishes etc. We had one petrol tank with a lot of junk in it. Turned out is was from the gas in that area, but it was mysterious at first. Some issues with the solo seat covers (as mentioned below). The Brits had a couple that vibrated more than they should. They loosened up the engine/transmission  mounting bolts and then re tightened them and all was well. I may have missed some things (if I did they might be on this forum). It will be interesting to see how things progress as more miles accumulate on the fleet.

We are VERY interested in how Gabor does by having them in his rental fleet in Phoenix. So far so good. This type of use would have been unthinkable with the iron barrel bikes.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2009, 11:51:39 AM »
I've put 3,600 trouble free miles on my C5, it just keeps getting better.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 12:07:21 PM by r80rt »
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2009, 11:15:46 PM »
Who in the hell opened that can of worms, sorry fellas  :). But seriously, thanks for the input, both for and against, it's what I was looking for, just knowing what to look for in the future. I don't like nasty surprises coming out of left field. As the US and the UK have had the bikes for some time longer than we have, I'm just trying to gauge owners opinions favorable or otherwise. I already own the bike it's more of being prepared for what may lay in the future for example the possible problem with the connections to the fuel pump etc. Keep up the good work and thanks again.
James C5 your views and opinions are appreciated, and the replies from Kevin Ace.cafe, r80rt, REpozer and all others are very informative and have been taken on board.
Cheers and again thanks

From the land down under.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2009, 03:25:48 PM »
Hey Hocko, feels like a nest of Hornets eh? I just have to weigh in here since i was born,raised,and worked in the UK auto repair industry for some time.In England the after sales situation is just so different,especially compared to the US.Every where else in the world people are used to long and all encompassing warranties, thanks in no small part to the Japanese.The British have a long standing tradition of just liking or lumping it. This seems to be slowly changing but will take some time to fall into line with the rest of the world. I know this because i work on Land Rovers,shall we talk service issues?Now there is a can of worms brother.
Greetings from Robert and REnfield in Michigan.
PS. Hope this post is'nt too far off topic.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2009, 03:57:05 PM »
So I'd venture to say when it comes to Enfields it's great to be in the US of A.

Maybe things are going too far out of context.
My G5 has got almost 3,500 miles on it and the only real setback has been the broken connection on the fuel injector. Not 1 adjustment aside from the chain.
My 95 by the time it had that many miles it was on it's 3rd piston, a complete valve job and hundreds of adjustments.
And I came back for more (3 more)!
I'd say REM is winning but a Bullet is still a Bullet and as such is a owner interactive bike.

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REpozer

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2009, 04:46:30 PM »
Next few years , I would like to own a G/C-5. Just got to wear out my current Bullet. :-\
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2009, 11:06:15 AM »
Hi All
I have been off line for a week and so have missed all of the concerns/remarks about the current RE's. (particularly UK) I now feel very worried!
I have had my share of concerns with the UK side of the business, particularly with the recall. All is fine now with me and my G5. However I have put my bike into semi mothballs for the winter months, with only 1600 miles on the clock. I do wonder what is to await me next spring onwards when my mileage increases to the milages talked about with some of the other corespondents. I do think that all UK problems should be taken up with WS and there respective dealers. BUT if WS and dealers, do not communicate back to you (as in the past), what are you to do. It seems quite normal to vent your spleen on the "Rolls Royce" of forums.
How envious we are in the UK.
Maybe WS and dealers should be bombarded with emails/telephone calls, with a view in trying to force there hand. Perhaps the RE Owners Club could take an active part.
Just a thought.

ace.cafe

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2009, 02:08:21 PM »
Hi Marrtyn,

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about it.
Just enjoy your bike, and do your normal care and maintenance, and if things need fixing, you can deal with it if/when it arises.

When I first got my older Bullet, I had read tons of complaints and warnings and horror stories on the internet about how they are constantly seizing engines and blowing up con-rods, and everything falling off the bike, and poor quality. So, I rode the bike around very carefully all the time, waiting for something to break. It was scary.
After nothing broke, and it rode fine all the time, I started forgetting to worry.
Then, I enjoyed the bike.

Now, if anything does break, which is rare, I just fix it and go on.
I've ridden my bike hard, modified it beyond plain stock, and it's a reliable motorcycle.
The UCE platform is going to be even more reliable than my bike.
Yes, some things will wear or break. It's a bike.

As Bobby McFerrin sings, "Don't worry. Be happy."
Don't allow "worries" to steal your pleasures.
Enjoy the riding, and when something breaks, fix it.
That's all there is to it. It's simple.




Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2009, 01:07:38 AM »
I think some of it is just the nature of bikes.  There is so much more exposure of parts to abuse, weather, vibration, etc that things are bound to go wrong.  Even with new ones.  I've had niggling shit happen with every bike so far, even new Yamahas. This bike is no different.  It's a HELL of alot better than my Ural!!  Today for instance, the lock for the airbox vibrated apart on the highway and dropped open.  No harm done, and the bike actually sounded better :D.  I had to use the duct tape fix as well (now I have to go check my paint, dammit!) and have to order a new lock (went bye-bye on the road...)  just part of owning a bike to me. Any bike....

t120rbullet

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2009, 04:12:02 AM »
Next few years , I would like to own a G/C-5. Just got to wear out my current Bullet. :-\

I got the G5 so I wouldn't wear out my current Bullets.
CJ
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clubman

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2009, 06:43:49 PM »
I think some of it is just the nature of bikes.  There is so much more exposure of parts to abuse, weather, vibration, etc that things are bound to go wrong.  Even with new ones.  I've had niggling shit happen with every bike so far, even new Yamahas. This bike is no different.  It's a HELL of alot better than my Ural!!  Today for instance, the lock for the airbox vibrated apart on the highway and dropped open.  No harm done, and the bike actually sounded better :D.  I had to use the duct tape fix as well (now I have to go check my paint, dammit!) and have to order a new lock (went bye-bye on the road...)  just part of owning a bike to me. Any bike....

I haven't taken delivery of my Clubman yet - though watch this space! - so I'm not too familiar with this lock but I think I know what you're talking about. Is there any way of preventing this? Can anything be made more secure (with loctite or similar) without stopping the lock from turning?

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2009, 12:21:59 AM »
I haven't taken delivery of my Clubman yet - though watch this space! - so I'm not too familiar with this lock but I think I know what you're talking about. Is there any way of preventing this? Can anything be made more secure (with loctite or similar) without stopping the lock from turning?
Both of those incidents happened with a C5. The clubman is a G5/E5 which has a different airbox set-up. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen on a G5/E5. I have had no problems with the side cover locks on my G5.

Post some pics of the Clubman when you get it.

r80rt

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2009, 01:32:06 AM »
No problem with the locks on my C5.
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JamesC5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2009, 08:30:16 AM »
The problem is easily fixed, use better locks! They're made out of that white metal alloy that tends to break way too easily. Most cheap chinese bikes I've seen have the same thing happen when locks are made with this.

For a pannier or tool box ok skimp on using cheap bits but the airbox I'd have spent the extra pennies to have a box that stays closed.

I'm guessing the lacquer was put on with dirt or fingerprints on the bike prior.. I know I have someones fingerprints under the lacquer in a few spots inc my tank, which would explain it lifting so easily.

I've been riding an XJ900 chop the past week but took my bandaged C5 out last night, she's very fun to ride, but I think I may just leave her at the dealers for awhile, the bike is going into false neutral more and more and Im having to double clutch alot.
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REpozer

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2009, 09:54:30 PM »
Careful James, I feel a lambasting coming on.

Maybe you should say things like : " I've  put my C5 on a pedestal , in the mean time I am sending out parts( bits) to be gold plated"

 ;)
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clubman

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2009, 01:48:40 PM »
Both of those incidents happened with a C5. The clubman is a G5/E5 which has a different airbox set-up. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen on a G5/E5. I have had no problems with the side cover locks on my G5.

Post some pics of the Clubman when you get it.

Thanks for the info. As to the Clubman I shall be collecting it tomorrow. I didn't want to say anything right up to the confirmation that it has been registered and is ready as there have been so many delays with it. It was actually delivered to my dealer a week ago and I did go to look at it a few days ago. I must say that it looks absolutely stunning; just like the pics of course but better still in three dimensions. If the riding experience is half as good I'll be happy.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2009, 10:18:00 PM »
We need pictures of your new bike! Congratulations on it!
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2009, 10:39:08 PM »
We need pictures of your new bike! Congratulations on it!  r80rt

Amen, Br. Clubman!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

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NAME: Perla

ace.cafe

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2009, 02:04:39 PM »
I'd like to see pics of it too.
I'm a clubman bike fan!
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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2009, 04:44:27 PM »
Thanks to one and all for the good wishes and I'll definitely put pics up next week. It's already too dark for pics here and I've only just got back from my first ride on it.  ;D Well, it's good innit?  :) Anyone here in the UK will know that the weather today is hardly the best for riding any bike, never mind a brand new one. I collected it about noon when the rain had eased for an hour and the roads were drying and while I was at the dealers it started raining again. Special mention for John Parker Motorcycles (is that allowed?) for offering to deliver it by van in the evening if I preferred. But I took it and rode the short distance home and then dried it and waited. By about three the roads were dry(ish) again and I put 20 miles on it. I haven't ridden a bike for ten years so it was slightly nerve wracking but overall really easy to ride and confidence inspiring. Ride was a good mix of roads and I had it up to 50 a few times but never held it at any constant throttle opening for too long. I know the handbook says 35-40 or something but 50 was achieved on only a whiff of throttle in top. I totally love the sound which is probably even better than standard with the upswept silencer. (Exhaust is probably a better description than silencer.) Very deep and throaty. Was also impressed with the gearbox and found changes very slick and neutral easy to find. Brakes feel great though were not particularly tested and handling and suspension were fine. The biggest problem I had was using the indicator switch without looking down to locate it but that is just a matter of time for sure. Also, I found the riding position very comfortable. Overall, an excellent bike and I'm sure there is a lot more to come from it. Weather forecast for the next two days is foul and I have other things to do so probably won't use it again until next week now but I have the week off and hope to get a few more miles on it between the showers and take pics too!

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2009, 05:55:33 PM »
Clubman- Congratulations and hope the weather gets better so you can put in more ride time. Keep us informed, start your own thread about the clubman. It doesn't look like CMW sells the clubman over here, at least it's not listed in the EFI bikes.

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2009, 07:50:21 PM »
We have seen a few of the airbox locks break on this side of the pond. While not a cure, Scooter Bob has taken to using some sort of rubber lube on the mounts of the airbox to make it move more easily and putting a bit less strain on it. I believe it is the same lock as the battery box lock on a G-5. ( I could be wrong, but while looking for one for a customer I am sure that Tim-dog (our parts guru) told me that. I think the issue is specific to the use of that lock on the airbox. While battery box locks also break from time to time I think it happens less often. Definitely a warranty item. Hopefully the factory will put a fix on this. They are aware of it. If any of you have pictures of the offending part and want to e-mail them to me please do, that is always very helpful.
k m at classic motorworks dot com (take out the spaces, this keeps the bots off my back)

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2009, 10:30:33 AM »
Like the sound of the Clubman, particularly interested in the upswept Goldie style exhaust.
I think I would like one one my G5 (DL)
Don't know when these will be offered by WS as an accessory though! Will it look OK, do you think, on a G5 (DL)?

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2009, 04:15:34 PM »
Apologies for changing the subject on this thread.  :P I'll start another about the Clubman when I put up pics next week. Just to say I think the upswept exhaust would look great on the G5. According to their website Watsonian are doing them for 100GBP which is a bargain price imo and no cat to go wrong either. Trust me, the sound is terrific!

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2009, 08:21:43 AM »
Thanks to one and all for the good wishes and I'll definitely put pics up next week. It's already too dark for pics here and I've only just got back from my first ride on it.  ;D Well, it's good innit?  :) Anyone here in the UK will know that the weather today is hardly the best for riding any bike, never mind a brand new one. I collected it about noon when the rain had eased for an hour and the roads were drying and while I was at the dealers it started raining again. Special mention for John Parker Motorcycles (is that allowed?) for offering to deliver it by van in the evening if I preferred. But I took it and rode the short distance home and then dried it and waited. By about three the roads were dry(ish) again and I put 20 miles on it. I haven't ridden a bike for ten years so it was slightly nerve wracking but overall really easy to ride and confidence inspiring. Ride was a good mix of roads and I had it up to 50 a few times but never held it at any constant throttle opening for too long. I know the handbook says 35-40 or something but 50 was achieved on only a whiff of throttle in top. I totally love the sound which is probably even better than standard with the upswept silencer. (Exhaust is probably a better description than silencer.) Very deep and throaty. Was also impressed with the gearbox and found changes very slick and neutral easy to find. Brakes feel great though were not particularly tested and handling and suspension were fine. The biggest problem I had was using the indicator switch without looking down to locate it but that is just a matter of time for sure. Also, I found the riding position very comfortable. Overall, an excellent bike and I'm sure there is a lot more to come from it. Weather forecast for the next two days is foul and I have other things to do so probably won't use it again until next week now but I have the week off and hope to get a few more miles on it between the showers and take pics too!

Hi Clubman,
                   I saw that bike in the window of Parkers a couple of weeks ago and thought it looked great. When I went past on Saturday and saw it was gone I wondered if you had bought it. Let us know how you get on with it. The trials styled version they have looks good too.

Regards,

Danny.

clubman

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2009, 05:48:29 PM »
Thanks a lot, Danny. You must be local - do you go to any owners club meetings? I've said a bit more about the bike in a separate thread. I'm really loving it!  ;D

Dannyboy

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2009, 08:41:16 AM »
Hi Clubman,
                   I live in Wakering and see a few bullets around. Have still got my honda for now but I'm looking to get one of the new models in the New Year. Just can't decide which one at the moment. Your bike looks a real head turner but six months is a long time to wait. I do like the styling of the trails version too though. Good luck with your bike.

Regards,

Danny.

clubman

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2009, 08:12:14 PM »
Hi Danny,

Great and Little Wakering have had this very Clubman rumble through a couple of times so far, including this morning. Six months is a long wait; I considered taking the G5 instead at one point but now I'm glad I waited. But I like the Trial too and it's immediately available if Parkers shop floor is anything to go by. Have you had a test ride on a G5 yet? Let me know what you decide to buy.

Regards,

Clubman

hocko

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2009, 09:57:29 PM »
This isn't really helping me seeking the information I was after.  ???

Cheers

Chris-G5

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2009, 12:57:06 AM »
This isn't really helping me seeking the information I was after.  ???

Cheers
3500 miles and getting a little oil leaking, not bad though. Only other problem was the loose wire to the fuel pump that I mentioned earlier. These are great bikes and they seem to get better and better with with mileage. I put a short silencer on it, which seems to have freed it up quite a bit. I've done a couple 200 mile rides with my brother on his Harley Electra Glide and he was impressed with how well I could keep up with him. Of course he can blow me away in acceleration on open roads/ highways. We did around 80 miles on the highway at speed in the 70 to 80 mph range, and the G5 had no problems and was quite comfortable at those speeds, especially with the less restrictive exhaust. And talk about an eye catcher/conversation piece. Everywhere I go I have people literally running up to me to find out about the bike. At a popular biker bar in a parking lot full of a hundred or so Harleys and Jap. cruisers I had person after person coming up to me asking and complementing me on the Bullet. The first guy came running over saying " Wow, I've never seen one of those in person before" ;D

hocko

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2009, 01:03:53 AM »
Thanks for the imput Chris G5. I had a shorter run the other day 180 miles, nothing to report other than a confortable ride (Some of it was on an unsealed road) and great fuel ecomony. As I only have 1400km on the clock, no hyper speeds involved, cruised comfortably at 60mph with a short burst up to 70 mph. All good. On the last oil change I think I may have partially stripped the sump plug, it nips up snug but still has a bit of play, not leaking though, so I'll just leave it to 3000km the next service and slip in an additional copper washer.

Thanks again

Cheers  :)

Bullruder5775

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2009, 02:53:21 PM »
Congratulations for your new bike...

Bullruder5775

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2009, 03:02:56 PM »
I am riding 1970 RE which was gifted by my grandfather to my father and my father to me ... My Bullet is still young ant heart it will be given to my son. I own 1970 RE Bullet 350, 1978 RE 500, 2003 RE Thunder Bird , Now waiting for my C5

Ice

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2009, 03:09:51 PM »
Welcome aboard Bullruder5775

Congrats on all you bikes ;D
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

r80rt

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2009, 07:56:41 PM »
I hit 3700 miles on my C5 today, it's been trouble free all the way ;D
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
Iron Butt Association

Bullruder5775

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2009, 05:33:57 PM »
Welcome aboard Bullruder5775

Congrats on all you bikes ;D



thanks ICE

mark

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Re: Mileages on the C5/G5
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2009, 05:46:53 PM »
Well, lets see...

When we removed the piece of tape that was used to keep the air filter box closed while I was stuck out on the road, we saw the lacquer was actually pulled off. This is tape that doesn't even pull indoor paint off, incredible.

10 days later, I still can't ride, the lock is on back order with no estimate of when it will arrive, and WS will not replace the lid as "he shouldn't have put tape on it". I guess I could say the lock shouldn't have shattered after only 6 months and popping open the air filter box while on the road.

I've had enough!

Hi James,

Just read this and it disturbs me what I have read!
James you have been treated poorly and RE dealers are at telling you lies.
They are not acting within the law and fobbing you off hoping you'll just accept what they" say" as fact.

You have several routes you can go down.
Some nice,and some very powerful and nasty ones for RE dealers in the UK.

(!1) If you paid the minimum of 100 pounds on a "credit" card you can claim your money(the price of the bike) back from the credit card company.
They will want the money back from the dealer-ouch!




Forget about warranties,extended warranties,they're are not worth the paper they're written on.
Paying by credit card gives you "six "years guarantee against defective or faulty goods.Fact!.

(2) Take to to the Ombudsmen who will 100% go in your favour!
The dealer will have to cough up! another ouch!



Now if you want to be nasty!!

(3) You can ring the trading standards.
 Quoting section 14 of fit for pupose act.

It is likely your bike is not fit for the purpose it was intended.
Which means it would fail an MOT test.
Therefore illegal,and illegal to be sold in the UK.

The shit would then hit the fan for RE dealers-stock could be seized and big fines handed out! massive ouch!!

The yanks have similar protection!

The upside of this is my bikes value would shoot up,as it would be rare in the UK!!


Royal Enfield Bullet efi.
rolex explorer,datejust,airking.
omega seamaster,speedmaster,constellation,dynamic.