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Author Topic: Run in yet?  (Read 2206 times)

hocko

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Run in yet?
« on: December 01, 2009, 11:22:02 PM »
Hi again all,
Just a quick question, I've just clocked up 1600km (1000 miles) on the G5. Is this considered "Run in". I'm not about to go out and flog the guts out of it, just need to feel that  I can run at highway speeds (60 - 70 mph)  for about 120 miles each way without worrying about causing any damage. Your opinions are all very welcome.

Cheers  :)

Vince

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 11:34:52 PM »
     It is BARELY broken in. There is no magic mileage that is absolute for break in. that mileage is not a switch: at 999 miles you take it easy then at 1,000 miles you can go full tilt. It doesn't work this way. You have made a good start. From now to about 2,000 miles you can work up the speeds and go a little longer each time. After that you will probably be OK, but I would have concerns about any single cylinder from any manufacturer that would be used to drone along at those speeds for that distance.  Occasional use like this would be fine, but as a daily commute this would accelerate engine wear. I could not tell from your post which use you contemplated. Either way you need to work up to it for a while longer.

hocko

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2009, 12:10:14 AM »
Thanks Vince,

It is normally used as a round town commute week days, varying between 30 - 50 mph on  a daily basis, but only for about 10 miles per day maximum. The 120 mile trip probably once or twice a month, I understand what your saying regarding singles at speed, but the trouble is that to leave town you are straight onto the highway 60 mph limit. There are no back roads unfortunately.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Cheers. :)

JMHAZ

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2009, 01:55:20 PM »
This brings up a good subject for discussion.

My G5 owner's manual offered the standard run-in advice - under 40 mph for the first 300 miles; under 50 mph for the next 300 miles; no full throttle, etc. - advice which I followed religiously.

However, in Kevin's report from India last year, he mentioned a "plateau honing method" for the cylinder walls, reported to virtually eliminate the need for a standard break-in period, and went on to describe UCE bikes taken right off the assembly line and run hard on the track for demonstration purposes.

Obviously there can be little harm in using caution during en engine's first few hundred miles, but I wonder if the old-fashioned break-in period is still really needed, or if the company is simply being conservative in its advice to new owners.

Morrissey

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 03:54:52 PM »
I have always erred on the side of caution when breaking in my bikes.  I usually take the manufacturer's suggested break in period and add 50% just to be safe.  If I had an Enfield I would especially take the break in period seriously.  These are not modern machines, they need a little more care and attention to keep them at their best.

PhilJ

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 10:22:51 PM »
Not true Morressey, the new UCE is every bit a modern made bike, it just looks old. If I ever get one it will be ridden just like those described by Kevin and his bike mag trip to India.

There essentially made like your cars. When was the last time you broke one of them in?

Vince

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 10:37:49 PM »
     The G5 owners manual has break in instructions on pages 44 & 45. I always recommend following the instructions. Go to my website-
http://www.vincesmc.com/myths.html#engine for a more in depth discussion..
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 10:43:48 PM by Vince »

Marto

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 11:56:53 PM »
G Day Hocko.

Great to hear your enjoying the Deluxe. My Classic has just over 2000kms on it now and I basically ride it at highway speeds without question. Its getting better wth  the more k's I put on it.
It used to be really smooth at 80-90kph, now that sweet patch is around 100-105kph. Anything over this speed and the donk really sounds busy. I have occasionally pushed it thru to 130, but its an uncomfortable speed anyway.
The bikes are only 500's remember and to achieve great longevity, you need to be sensible with their use.
I sure I won't get any speeding tickets on mine, and thats why I bought it. Excellent carefree cruising, great looks and bulk character.

REpozer

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 02:22:16 AM »
    The G5 owners manual has break in instructions on pages 44 & 45. I always recommend following the instructions. Go to my website-
http://www.vincesmc.com/myths.html#engine for a more in depth discussion..
If you live near Olympia,Washington, I heard there was a good RE dealer that enjoys engine warranty work, ....so ride it like you stole it. ;)
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REA # 84 ( the first time)

hocko

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2009, 11:22:29 PM »
Hi Marto,

Where abouts are you, I'm in North Qld.

Cheers  :)

oldfart

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 08:56:56 PM »
I'm brand new to all this but it seems to me if I'm going to buy a bike ofr close to $7k  I damn well better be able to ride it at highway sppeeds or any other sppedd for the matter a lot sooner than what the break-in instructions are in the manual.  I think the important thing is not to abuse the bike and to make sure you varyyour speedds work through all the gear but most importantly ride it the way you intend to use it and do the maintenance as staed in the manual.  The UCE and AVLs for that matter are moderna bikes in every sense of the word except for looks so ride them and break them in as they were modern bikes.  As far as the RE dealship near Olpympia is concerned they don't have any nwe REs on the floor and very few old REs around not to sure how much advice I'd be taking from, someone who doesn't have any moderrn REs to let you demo or to sell you.  Just my humble opinion.

REpozer

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 09:28:10 PM »
I'm brand new to all this but it seems to me if I'm going to buy a bike ofr close to $7k  I damn well better be able to ride it at highway sppeeds or any other sppedd for the matter a lot sooner than what the break-in instructions are in the manual.  I think the important thing is not to abuse the bike and to make sure you varyyour speedds work through all the gear but most importantly ride it the way you intend to use it and do the maintenance as staed in the manual.  The UCE and AVLs for that matter are moderna bikes in every sense of the word except for looks so ride them and break them in as they were modern bikes.  As far as the RE dealship near Olpympia is concerned they don't have any nwe REs on the floor and very few old REs around not to sure how much advice I'd be taking from, someone who doesn't have any moderrn REs to let you demo or to sell you.  Just my humble opinion.
Referring to Vince. I am not sure why he doesn't have any G/C5's as you say.Probably a waiting list and or economy reason's ,he will probably chime in. More about Vince ,he is a the only dealer that regularly post with allot of very helpful info.The other guys are probably busy making money.

Now ,I have visited Vince's shop back in Christmas of 2007( he might even remember me) the place was loaded with RE's. Yep, I almost bought the bike I believe Birdmove now rides.(getting scary isn't it?) (I had no way of getting home).
Vince was very helpful and informative.I have no doubt with his knowledge. He  is a real RE enthusiast and stays in the know,though CMW, and who knows he might have a 1-888 number direct to India.

Now all that being said I have given Vince a load of bull more than once on this forum, but he has earned it  though longevity, and always in fun.
Careful about labling, oh I purchase in Alaska due to shipping reasons.

So take it easy on Vince.
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Marto

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2009, 09:45:58 PM »
G Day Hocko...Marto is my nickname...Greg from ScooterShed. This forum is a great site for feedback eh!

hocko

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2009, 10:01:22 PM »
Hi Greg, yep great site alright, especially as it has this model specific forum. I've gained a lot out of it, pity ther'e a day behind us  ;)

Cheers

oldfart

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2009, 11:24:08 PM »
Referring to Vince. I am not sure why he doesn't have any G/C5's as you say.Probably a waiting list and or economy reason's ,he will probably chime in. More about Vince ,he is a the only dealer that regularly post with allot of very helpful info.The other guys are probably busy making money.

Now ,I have visited Vince's shop back in Christmas of 2007( he might even remember me) the place was loaded with RE's. Yep, I almost bought the bike I believe Birdmove now rides.(getting scary isn't it?) (I had no way of getting home).
Vince was very helpful and informative.I have no doubt with his knowledge. He  is a real RE enthusiast and stays in the know,though CMW, and who knows he might have a 1-888 number direct to India.

Now all that being said I have given Vince a load of bull more than once on this forum, but he has earned it  though longevity, and always in fun.
Careful about labling, oh I purchase in Alaska due to shipping reasons.

So take it easy on Vince.

Sorry didn't mean to pick on Vince(don't know the guy) only was in the shop once a couple months ago, made the drive down only to find no new bikes and only a 2005 sitting on his floor...gorgeous bike if I was a a tinkier I would have gotten it.

  I can certianly understand ay dealer saying follow the manual and you can't go wrong so his advice isn't bad but I also know that the breakin advice in the RE manual is the same as the breakin advice in my Kaw eliminator 125  manual and my grandvista 250 manual and if I followed it I won't be able to go the speed limit on most of the streets around my house with any of my new bikes yet.

I actually called the Kawasaki factory to ask them about the breakin period and they said the manual was overly cautious and that the best way to breakin the bike was vary spppeds, shift through all the gears and not to spend too much time on either ned of the sppedo, ride it the way you planned on riding and DO THE MAINTENANCE.  I seems to be working on all 3 new bikes.  It is also the same advice the the dealer in Bellingham gave me when I bought the C5.  Actually rode it home which put 136 miles on it the very first day.

So again my apologies to Vince but I think the manual is way to cautious for the new REs

REpozer

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2009, 11:34:14 PM »
I didn't mean to come across too ruff, my apologies.

I wonder why Vince has a low inventory?Like I said two years ago he had I a long row of bikes.
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
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oldfart

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 12:38:13 AM »
I didn't mean to come across too ruff, my apologies.

I wonder why Vince has a low inventory?Like I said two years ago he had I a long row of bikes.

no need to apologize you weren't too ruff.  I was surprised and disappointed that he didn't have any bikes..it was a fifty mile trip for us but I was even more surprised when I said I wanted the bike for my son and he said he won't recommend it for a teenager since they required a lot of maintenance.  Now I thought the whole idea of the new UCE was to make the bike relatively maintenance free and do away with having to tinker with them all the time as it is with the older models.  Maintenance on the new REs is less than it is on the eiminator got my son to larn on if you don't count that really annoying oil filter arrangement they have where yo uhave to keep all those orings and washers inline while you try to put that damn spring loaded oil filter cap back on..what idoit came up with that design..

REpozer

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 02:59:56 AM »
Oldfart,
That would be a let down to drive that far and not see any bikes. I wonder what happened? I sometimes wish, I waited on to  a G5, over the AVL ( I've had few problems).
Looks like REM kept tradition in keeping with the Brit style oil filer we,vie all come to love. :)
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

kodai

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 04:19:56 AM »
       re wants break in for their reasons. Everyone will their own way. You may or not pay the price for doing it your way.  I'm not going to say RE is an old mans bike, But  for a teen.  I think Vince was right ..

oldfart

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 05:00:32 AM »
       re wants break in for their reasons. Everyone will their own way. You may or not pay the price for doing it your way.  I'm not going to say RE is an old mans bike, But  for a teen.  I think Vince was right ..

So I need a futher explantation why a C5 classic is not a bike for a 17 y/o who likes classic styling.  He had his choice between one of the new triumphs bonnies,  the moto guzzi V7 classic, and one of the new UCE Ryal Enfields...after riding all of them he stuck with his original choice of the C5 RE...not sure why you would say a UCE RE is not a good choice for a teen...Vince for some reason seemed to think the new UCE would be too maintenance intensive for a teen.

The Garbone

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 02:52:12 PM »
I have a guess why he would say such a thing.. Keeping in mind I am not a dealer and can only postulate on these things..

I imagine that if these bikes are moving as fast off the floor and that some dealers probably have to decide to keep a bike in stock and not just sell to the next guy  that walks in the door if it appears the it might just flog the machine,  have warranty claims that the dealer would have to work on and the customer ends up having a bad  experience with the brand.    

I have an older style RE and for them you do have to be fairly handy,  I imagine the newer bikes are better, but I would hazard to guess the still not a Honda.  
Gary
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67' Ford Mustang
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95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
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* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Vince

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2009, 07:06:24 PM »
      Before this goes any farther I would like to address a couple of statements. Concerning the break in-"Break it in like you are going to use it"- I addressed this in the article I linked to in my previous posts. Can you push it? Sure, if you don't mind shorter engine life. In 35 years in this industry I have seen improper break in cost as much as 99% of engine life. Even if you only extend life 5% that is a $300 savings on the price of the bike. It is more savings when you consider savings in maintenance you won't need. For the sake of a dubiously better break in you are throwing money away.  You  (the editorial you) do not have the training or access to the the information the engineers have. Their way is safe, proven, and effective. Would you tell your doctor you have cancer and tell him how to treat you? What would you need him for? I often have people tell me what is wrong with their bikes and tell me how to fix them. In these cases I ALWAYS have them sign a disclaimer that the only guarantee is that I will have their money. Customers that trust me to do my job get a properly diagnosed repair with a guarantee on the work. When you have the services of a pro you should take advantage of it.
     Oldfart, I am sorry for any misunderstanding. I specifically said that the AVL engined bike would require more attention than a 17 year old would be able to provide. I am on my third teenager. I know what they are like. You didn't care for adhering to the break in procedure of the EFI. I have had one of the very lowest warranty repair frequencies, if not the lowest, of any dealer because of my practices. This includes stressing break in and matching the bike to the rider. It may come as a shock, but I don't make money on warranty repairs. The labor rate is less. I make no parts sales, and it takes time from other lucrative repairs. It cost the customer time,  sometimes time off of work, gas money, and aggravation. Most of the warranty issues I deal with are from customers that know better than me what to do for break in and maintenance. These are also the folks that get mad at me the most. I would rather have happy customers.
     Now this next bit might be better off as a new thread, but here goes. It concerns bike inventory. Shockingly, I don't own these bikes. These are financed through a flooring company. This company will advance funds so I can put bikes on my floor. It cost me 1 1/2% per month. The last flooring bill I paid amounted to over $1,200. Each Enfield cost me over $70 a month to sit there. I flat ran out of money. Enfields were the only bright sales spot in this recession, but they couldn't support the rest of the load. To delete the flooring I had to delete the line of credit. Everything had to go back. Some of the fall out from that even hurt Kevin Mahoney, for which I am horribly sorry. I now have one new G5 on the floor for a demo, but I will have to order bikes for sale. Oldfart timed his visit just right to catch me in the middle of this transition. As some of you know, I moved this year for a variety of reasons. One was to save over $3,000 a month in rent. Other reasons have to do with a re-organization to survive the recession. These involve a re-emphasis on service. My service department has seen me through thick and thin. Bike sales go away in times like this. If I had not taken these measures I would not have survived. GREAT NEWS!!! The doors are open. I will be able to fulfill my obligations to family, customers and employees.
     I am sorry if this does not fulfill anyone's vision of what my dealership should be. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, this store is my identity. I have literally given my life to this industry. I did what I had to do to.  I am still here and will still be here. I appreciate the folks that believe in me.
     

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2009, 12:16:49 AM »
You know Vince, I remember you posting how you moved to a less prime but more economical and functional place and I thought to myself what a good move that was.
Someone will always find the shop with a good reputation and sometimes that gives the impression of being more service oriented than interest in retailing farkles. I'd rather shop the old Harley shop on a backroad anyday than one of the new Mega Mall Harley dealers.
I buy a lot of things on line, and check the reputation of the vendor. An attractive website exhudes confidence. For all I know, the guy could be some schmoe like Uncle Ernie, sitting in his cellar in his underwear in front of the computer, but if he can supply the product and service at a good price, I'll shop there again. It's a lot like a delivery Pizza shop. If 99% of its' business is delivery, it can be on a one way street going the wrong way, as long as the phone works and the product is good, it will do business.
The increase in internet awareness and use, combined with the recession, has made businesses either adapt or fail. In Real Estate it has changed too. Buyers and sellers used to drop into an office, where they would be greeted by a receptionist and then handed off to a duty agent. Agents would go in to use the phones, computers and fax. One of the staples of business was to get on the phone and go through the phone book blindly callind as many people as you could. "Hello, are you or anyone you know interested in buying or selling property" "Okay, thank you?." It was a numbers game. Call 100 people, get one lead. Call 200, get two leads, etc. I never did it because I realized-call 100 people, piss off 99.
One big name franchise in town had a tajmah Hall building, multi stories, along with 8 offices spread around town. They rented the plants, and paid someone to come in and water them. They paid for a receptionist. They had a huge rent/mortgage. The cleaning crew would come in several times a week.. They didn't realize it at first, but people called or used the internet, they didn't walk in anymore. Next thing you knew, this big company went bankrupt.
Our crappy little office was $3000/month rent. Utilities were another 1K. The overhead was passed on to the agents. One day the broker and I sat down and I told her-No one walks in anymore. All us agents have cell phones with long distance, we all have computers, we all have fax machines. Dump this white elephant, let us operate from home, and pass the savings along to the agents. It's been 6 months now, and we are surviving, while several other companies are out of business. Innovate, or die. Business will never be the same, and it will get tougher. If I lived in your area, i would buy a bike from you, even if it cost more, and I would order it and wait if I had to, because of your reputation. Your move will pay out many times over.
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oldfart

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2009, 04:58:47 AM »
First and foremost let me once again apologize if it seemed like I was picking on Vince or in some way putting him or his shop down that was not my intent.  Actually my first impressions of Vince's shop and Vince were very good..he seemed like one of those old timer's that took great pride in his work and his knowledge of his product and he truly in my mind was wanting to be as helpful as possible but was also trying to sell me something he had available.  Now with that said when I go to any dealership I do expect to be able to look, feel, and in the case of a vehicle test drive the product.  If I am inter5ested in buying a C5 I don't want to demo a G5 or a military or one of the AVLs I want to test ride a C5 to see if it fits me and if I like the controls and the ride, the sound..all those things that you consider and in this case was the bike a good fit for my son.  A dealership without product is not a dealership, the day I went in my impressions from what I saw was this probably one hell of a great repair shop with people I would trust my bike to.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I am brand new to this, my son and I just starting riding in July.  Since then I have purchased 4 new vehicles a Kawasaki eliminator 125 for my son and I to learn, Kymco Agility 125(sometimes I just don't want to deal with shifting and I needed to be able to keep up with my son on his Kawasaki 125), traded in the Agility 125 for a Kymco GrandVista 250 because I had the need for speed LOL and then finally 2 weeks ago purchased my son's C5.  So when I walked into Vince's dealership I was a serious buyer and expected to find product to test ride if there is no product in my mind there is no dealership, one might as well go online and buy it sight unseen.

So in conclusion, would I buy a bike from Vince? Only if he has it on hand so I could take it for a spin, would I take any of my bikes to Vince’s shop to repair?  Based on what I saw you bet I would.  Please get bikes in as soon as you can again it would be nice to do business with a reputable shop that is closer than 150 miles from home.

Cabo Cruz

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Re: Run in yet?
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2009, 10:01:25 PM »
Br. Vince, that was a very educational and inspirational post... I wish you and yours (in your personal and professional families):

A Very Merry Christmas and a Very Joyous and Prosperous New Year!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla