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Author Topic: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)  (Read 1633 times)

chinoy

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Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« on: December 29, 2009, 07:24:54 AM »
Im placing an order for the service manuall but knowing Indian post and customs.
I dont expect to see it for at least a few weeks.

So if somebody could help out with some info.

1. What is the Fuell Pressure from the pump. I was told 4 Bar. But when I checked I only got 45 PSI which is normal for most EFI bikes.

2. What is the injector flow rate. in cc per min ?

3. What is the Torque settings for the engine cases. I have replaced all the crappy bolts with Allen bolts.

clubman

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 09:29:55 PM »
Could you tell me where you placed the order for the manual? I haven't managed to find one as yet. Many thanks.

Charro

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 11:48:41 PM »
I belive, 1 Bar is equal to 14.5083 psi
2014 Continental GT (on order)
2004 Triumph Sprint RS
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2001 Triumph Bonneville
2006 Triumph Scrambler
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"Tell me what kind of horse you want to ride. I'll tell you what kind of rider you are." (Old Mexican proverb)

davem

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2009, 12:12:44 AM »
Hi Clubman,
                  Watsonion Squire supply the service manual at about 27 pounds, Hope this helps.
          Regards Davem.

roydunkau

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 12:26:31 AM »
You can order the manual from Royalenfieldbooks.com,
although their web site says the next shipment is due mid January

Here is the link

http://www.royalenfieldbooks.com/efi_bullet_classic__electra_export_workshop_manua.html


Could you tell me where you placed the order for the manual? I haven't managed to find one as yet. Many thanks.

Ice

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2009, 02:42:54 AM »
Welcome aboard roydunkau.
Also thanks for the tip.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

singhg5

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 03:06:45 AM »
Im placing an order for the service manuall but knowing Indian post and customs.
I dont expect to see it for at least a few weeks.

So if somebody could help out with some info.

1. What is the Fuell Pressure from the pump. I was told 4 Bar. But when I checked I only got 45 PSI which is normal for most EFI bikes.


Hello Chinoy:

According to the service manual the fuel injection pressure is 2.9 bar, which equals 42 psi - you got 45 psi which is equal to 3.1 bar (1 bar = 14.5 psi).  So, the reading match quite well.
 
Regards   
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

clubman

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 10:29:32 AM »
Many thanks, guys, that's very helpful.   :) Have now ordered.


chinoy

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 11:50:03 AM »
any info on the fuel injector.

singhg5

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2009, 03:22:54 PM »
So if somebody could help out with some info.

1. What is the Fuell Pressure from the pump. I was told 4 Bar. But when I checked I only got 45 PSI which is normal for most EFI bikes.

2. What is the injector flow rate. in cc per min ?

Hello Chinoy (Ron),

1.  In my previous post I had mentioned about the pressure as per service manual in this thread, 2.9 bars = 42 psi.

2.  I could not find injector flow rate in manual but got thinking about it.  Here is my take on it.  The flow rate is approximately 63 cc per minute at 60 mph speed.

I have calculated this value theoretically as follows - My G5 (same engine as C5)  gives me 70 miles per gallon.  That means if I ride my bike at  a speed of 70 mph it will cover 70 miles in one hour and consume 1 US gallon of gas in that one hour.  Since US gallon is 3.78 liters, that is 3780 cc consumed in one hour.  Thus gas consumption is 3780 cc divided by 60 minutes = 63 cc per minute.  The injector must at least supply this much gas.

There are three assumptions in this calculation - First assumption is that there is no loss of gas anywhere and all of it is used to give me the distance travelled - Second assumption is that this value is at a certain rpm of engine (equivalent to 60 mph - the speed at which I got my mpg) - and the Third assumption is that there is not a significant difference in the flow rate from 60 mph to 70 mph.

At idle the flow rate must be less than that.  

Regards
Singh
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 03:46:04 PM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2010, 10:00:01 AM »
Thank you singh Ji.
I was working at it from a diffirent angle.
i.e. how much flow must I have to match the power output of my engine.
The power output of my engine depends on the mods I do to it.
My engine simulator tells me how much power any given mod will make.
Anything from a better Exhaust to a well tuned intake tract to flow velocity at the ports. To the cam I run.

Here are some number from my Excell SPread Sheet.
WHy I really need the flow rate is to know if I take control over the injector with my ECU.
Can the Injetor flow enoughf to cater to my power requirements.

There are two ways to check flow rate.
a. Hook it up to the Fuell Pump and apply a 12 Volt Supply to the Injector and see how much it flows for a few seconds and get its flow rate

b. Hook it up to a Ansu Injector Cleaner. And turn the knob to max rpm which on a 90mm stroke engine is around 6250 RPM (You should not drive your piston at more than 20 Mtr/Sec a piston can not sustain more speed than this.. Yes I know GP pistons do 25 but this is no GP piston.
On a 50mm stroke RXG engine RPMs off 13,000 RPM are safe.
My dream Bullet motor would actually have a little less stroke.
When I get the crank in my hand. Im going to see if I can de-stroke it.
Just like we increase the stroke on engines with small strokes i.e. RXG from 50 to 54, RD /RZ/ Banshee from 54 to 58.
If I can reduce the stroke by 4mm even with a stroker Pin.
It will allow me to rev that much harder. Id be a happy camper if I could hit 7000 Revs on the UCE engine. If a stroker pin allows me to do this I will go for it.

===========================================
Fuell Flow (CC per min)=HPxK/C   
K=4.6 For NA   
K= 5.6 for turbo   
C= Number of cylinders   
   
Bullet   
HP   CC/Min
25   115
26   119.6
27   124.2
28   128.8
29   133.4
30   138
31   142.6
32   147.2
33   151.8
34   156.4
35   161
36   165.6
37   170.2
38   174.8
39   179.4
40   184

====================
The objective is to make sure the injector can flow enough gas within its 80-90% duty cycle.


singhg5

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2010, 09:04:41 PM »
RE has Keihin fuel injector.  I believe it should be able to give 200 cc/min at the least, perhaps upto 300 cc/min.  If you do any test, let us know. 

Happy New Year of 2010.

Singh
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 05:16:40 AM »
Thats strange that they don't give a procedure to check injector flow rate.
Ever service manual for every engine Ive ever owned give flow figures to check for 15 seconds i.e. the Maruti 800 flows 35 cc in 15 sec.

chinoy

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2010, 08:55:32 AM »
Singh Ji
DO they have a page like this one
http://www.slideshare.net/sathitharan/bullet-maintenance-manual-01?src=related_normal&rel=2418672

Listing the Cam Durations on the G5

singhg5

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Re: Questions for guys with access to the service manuall. (C5-EFI)
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 04:00:13 AM »
Singh Ji
DO they have a page like this one
http://www.slideshare.net/sathitharan/bullet-maintenance-manual-01?src=related_normal&rel=2418672

Listing the Cam Durations on the G5

Did not find any info on cam durations in the service manual. 
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5