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Author Topic: Winter Battery Blues  (Read 5833 times)

bergerac

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 06:39:10 PM »
Re the Exide MX Freedom 12MF14L-A2 on the G5. I took the battery side cover off yesterday and noticed what I thought was drops of water on the inside of cover. I thought, strange - I haven't been thru rain lately, I felt it, in a few secs - OUCH! it was acid. Took the battery out and the filler holes cap off and top and side of battery was wet with acid. Two thoughts came to mind. 1) It was originally overfilled and 2) where a vent tube normally is, there was no vent tube and the side vent hole seems blocked. I wondered if any others had a vent tube on their Exide?
 
2009 Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2010, 02:43:55 AM »
Its called Bubbling and it happens if you hit your bat with too much d/c.
Please just check your charging voltage. With the bike runing at diffirent RPMs.
Hook up a MM and blip the throtell.
When they replaced my RR unit I noticed the voltage would not cross 14 Volts.


Singh Ji
The Plug on the Indian Bikes is a Bosch R6
Its a long reach plug with two earth straps.
And the number on it is WR7DDC4,
If this is a Bosch 6 then its probably equal to a NGK 7. I say 6 because it has R6 also stamped on the Plug.
The smaller Plug is a UR5DC (Which I plan to blank off).

If I was in your shoes.
This is an air cooled motor. Which gets really really hot.
Climatic changes will help but not by much. Its more about the kind of roads you ride on. The temp spikes happen in slow moving traffic.

I would start with the safest plug I can get. And then if it fouled. I would move down a number.
This is how we solved the plug issues on the Formula racing cars when they started to act up with the stock plugs.

Also inspect your plug with a loupe 10X min look for small beads of Ali.
Look to see if the edges of the electrode are rounding off. All signs of over heating.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:17:37 AM by chinoy »

singhg5

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2010, 11:25:26 PM »
SIngh Ji.

on my C5 I found the double earth straps and a projected nose.
If on installing this on your bike your Idle RPM went up. Then it means your engine actually likes the Plug. Just back off your Idle 1/2 turn. (On the EFI you will need a screw driver with a 90 Deg bend.

Ron Ji:

I have replaced the B8ES spark plug with a projected spark plug with resistor - BPR7 ES (NGK).  I noticed that the bike starts much faster, the idle is little higher, its engine sound is crisper, fuller, and shorter bursts.  It likes to be up shifted (its gears) at a lower speed than before.  The engine responds faster to throttle changes.

Can you elaborate more on the "Just back off idle 1/2 turn...you will need a screw driver with a 90 Deg bend". 

I also want to know your and other members' opinions on the first photo below.  It is B8ES spark plug with only 40 miles on it and you see some black carbon on threads (not on the white insulation).  My question is - is it normal or was it too cold and not burning gas properly ?  During that 40 miles (done in two runs of 10 and 30 miles on two different days), the bike ran fine and no start up problems.  The second picture is the new spark plug BPR7 ES (NGK).

Thanks.

1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

singhg5

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2010, 11:38:11 PM »
Re the Exide MX Freedom 12MF14L-A2 on the G5. I took the battery side cover off yesterday and noticed what I thought was drops of water on the inside of cover. I thought, strange - I haven't been thru rain lately, I felt it, in a few secs - OUCH! it was acid.
I wondered if any others had a vent tube on their Exide?
 

Even though Exide has been making batteries for long time world wide but the (unsealed acid battery is no match for Yuasa Sealed battery.  No more OUCHs !! No fiddling with the cover !! No worries of vent tubes !! And above all its performance is better.  It is worth it.


1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2010, 12:50:03 AM »
Singh Ji
What you have observed is natrual.
You know the laws of flame front propagation.
The flame front has a speed Im too lazy to dig out my copy of Blair to give you the ball park number. If my memory is not shot its +- 30 Mtr/Sec depending on factors such as turbulance, compresion, MSV, Squish etc.

When you go from a Projected nose plug to a non projected nose plug you are in effect changing the timing of your engine. (When I first proposed this idea I was laughfed at). Nowdays everybody accepts it.

How much exactly your plug advances or retards the timing is based on the difference in the spark point. Say the difference in height between a Projected nose and a non projected nose is 2mm. Then on an engine with a 54mm stroke that is like 20 Deg.

Its a well known fact that if you take an engine with a non projected plug and replace it with a projected plug. The engine will feel like the timing has been advanced.
Advancing the timing has allmost the same effect as increasing your compresion.

When you where using the non projected plug. Your engine was runing as it would if you  had moved yoru firing point closer to TDC.

With the projected nose plug your now feeling like you have moded your engine to fire way before TDC.

Looking at the picture of your plug. All I see is a bone white plug.
Forget about the carbon on the threads. Read up on google about reading spark plugs and doing plug chops.

There is no way in hell that plug is fouled.

So in summary
a. If the orignal plug is a Projected Nose Plug. Run a projected nose Plug. The only exception being say when a bike has just been rebuilt and we do not trust the owner to run it in right. We put in a non projected plug to back off the timing.

b. If you change your timing to fire more BTDC then your RPM will go up and the bike will feel more peppy.

Pic of TB attached.
You need to turn the brass screw next to the choke with a screw driver.
Ive seen the guys at RE use a regular screw driver to do this.
This is your IDLE RPM adjuster.





clubman

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2010, 03:28:58 PM »
Hello Clubman. 
Since you are in UK, chinoy in India, I and t120 in USA,  I want to get a picture of what each of us is getting in three different continents.
I would like to know what spark plug is (was) originally in your bike.  Do you have a picture and dimensions of that ?  I am assuming you have UCE - do you ? 
Thanks.



Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this! I couldn't access my bike until the weekend but I finally got the plug out today and it is a Bosch R6 so same as standard issue in India. And yes, it's a UCE. This plug is performing with no problems at all even though the climate here right now is somewhat different to that of India.

chinoy

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2010, 12:11:21 AM »
Singh ji check out a plug called the split fire it has 4 earth straps.

If you look at the design of the UCE head with the plug stuck in one corner.
Geting the plug indexed is critical i.e. you dont want the spark facing the wall of the cylinder rather you want it pointing to the center of the cyclinder.

If you can index your plug your set. If not you will just need to get a plug with more than one earth strap. Ive not seen plugs with two earth streaps but I have seen ones with 4 straps in the US and UK.

singhg5

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2010, 09:02:39 PM »
Singh Ji
What you have observed is natrual.
You know the laws of flame front propagation.
The flame front has a speed Im too lazy to dig out my copy of Blair to give you the ball park number. If my memory is not shot its +- 30 Mtr/Sec depending on factors such as turbulance, compresion, MSV, Squish etc.

When you go from a Projected nose plug to a non projected nose plug you are in effect changing the timing of your engine. Say the difference in height between a Projected nose and a non projected nose is 2mm. Then on an engine with a 54mm stroke that is like 20 Deg.

Its a well known fact that if you take an engine with a non projected plug and replace it with a projected plug. The engine will feel like the timing has been advanced.
Advancing the timing has allmost the same effect as increasing your compresion.

With the projected nose plug your now feeling like you have moded your engine to fire way before TDC.

So in summary
a. If the orignal plug is a Projected Nose Plug. Run a projected nose Plug. The only exception being say when a bike has just been rebuilt and we do not trust the owner to run it in right. We put in a non projected plug to back off the timing.

b. If you change your timing to fire more BTDC then your RPM will go up and the bike will feel more peppy.

Pic of TB attached.
You need to turn the brass screw next to the choke with a screw driver.
Ive seen the guys at RE use a regular screw driver to do this.
This is your IDLE RPM adjuster.
Ron Ji:

Thanks for the picture and explanation

Recently I noticed that when I stop at a traffic red light, waiting for it to turn green, the idle slows down - ECU is sensing and sending signals to slow down.  After a few seconds it goes up again.  The idle gradually fluctuates a little up and then down and then up again like a wave - like some cars do.  So the question is what is the RANGE of idle that is acceptable ?  Do you have a close up video and sound recording of your bike at idle ? 
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2010, 12:24:11 AM »
Singh Ji
No I dont have a recording and its going to be a long long time before I have my engine running again.
Right now its striped to bits and i am blue printing it. And studying it. Ps: The ring size was 1.12mm. The piston pin dia is 19.96.
This is what I do with any new engine.
Run it in. Sort out basic warranty issues. Then strip. Blue print and study.
Lets just say doing the bullet is lots of fun. because you have so many things to blue print :lol:


I think you just need to set your idle RPM to match your new plugs.
You will need a tacho.
I recommend any timing light with RPM. I use the OTC Stinger it has Tacho / Bat voltage and many other cool features.
Or you can buy a contact less Tacho i.e. just hold it near the engine and it gives you the RPM.

Try different RPM settings from 900-1100.
Always do it after the engine is warmed up.


clubman

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2010, 07:25:09 AM »
Winter Battery Blues - Spark Plug Blacks

I ordered and got a spanking black super-sealed Yuasa YTX14 AHL-BS 12 volts battery.  It read 12.9 volts and beautifully fits in my black G5 as if they are made for each other.
   

I checked this out wondering if it was a gel battery but it is acid filled, albeit maintenance free. I then spent a good half hour on a lot of websites trying to find a gel battery of the same dimensions but didn't manage to. So question - does anyone know of a gel battery that would fit the G5? Thanks.  :)

PhilJ

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2010, 10:01:11 AM »
I checked this out wondering if it was a gel battery but it is acid filled, albeit maintenance free. I then spent a good half hour on a lot of websites trying to find a gel battery of the same dimensions but didn't manage to. So question - does anyone know of a gel battery that would fit the G5? Thanks.  :)
Clubman, the G5 should take the same as the classic 500ES. On my AVL Classic i'm using an Extreme power sport ETX15L. I just noticed that it has been replaced by another model. However, the battery I have is the best motorcycle battery I've ever had, and American made.
BTW, an Gel Cell battery, while good, utilizes a different charger for proper charging. Plus they have slightly lower voltages than lead acid or AGM.

You can find them at this location.

http://www.bikebatts.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_1462_1465&products_id=343&osCsid=4c3525a356856c8888c9af0bcb2626a8
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 10:16:32 AM by PhilJ »

chinoy

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Re: Winter Battery Blues
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2010, 10:57:50 AM »