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Author Topic: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE  (Read 4923 times)

chinoy

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Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« on: January 20, 2010, 07:05:08 AM »
How fast have you gone on your C5/G5 and if you could add the following info.

a. Speed in Kmph /mph
b. Road surface best you can describe it.
c. How did the bike feel.

My instability at speed (100 Kmph) is starting to bug me.
Only thing left to try is new Tyres.

At the rev limit and some roughf number crunching the UCE should be doing 150 Kmph at its rev limiter.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:10:35 AM by chinoy »

portisheadric

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 10:21:41 AM »
I suffered instability with my lean burn if I exceeded an indicated 65mph.
Replacing the part worn rear tyre immediately solved the problem; but only after initially trying wheel balancing, headstock adjustment, wheel alignment, wheel bearings and checking for play in the forks, fork clamps, wheel spindle nuts and swinging arm bushes.

From memory I changed from the OEM Avon RoadRider to a Dunlop TT100.

Rusty

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 11:45:46 AM »
85 mph here on my C5, road surface was flat and good (motorway), no tailwind.

Engine felt fine revving that high, bike felt unstable though and would wobble without provocation.

t120rbullet

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 12:54:51 PM »
Around 85 MPH on my G5 passing a truck on a 2 lane blacktop.
Bike felt fine even though 85 is way past the bikes design envelope.
Too short and too light to be a uber high speed bike. If you want to go fast there are better bikes to do it on.
CJ
 
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2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 01:29:07 PM »
Around 85 MPH on my G5 passing a truck on a 2 lane blacktop.
Bike felt fine even though 85 is way past the bikes design envelope.
Too short and too light to be a uber high speed bike. If you want to go fast there are better bikes to do it on.
CJ
 
Im sorry to say this but this kind of response does miff me a bit.
Its a 500cc bike for crying out.
I want to do 100 Kmph. Without feeling like the bike is going to throw me.
Is that being un-resonable ?

Its not like Im asking to do even 65 MPH. Or 70 or 80 or 90 or 100.
60 MPH and Id be happy.
Is that really too much to ask for.
Does it really warrant a wise crack like there are better bikes to do it on ?

What are you implying ? 60 MPH too fast ? or that I dont know there are other bikes out there ?
Ok sorry Im stupid.
Please tell me what speed I should ride the bike at. Ill stick to that number.

The reason for this post is to see if its just me or this bike. Or do others feel it too.
If everybody says it cant do 60MPH. Then thats cool with me.

Did take it to the dealer. They test rode it and said its fine.
SO that door is closed for now.

Did own a Thunderbird AVL 350 which would do 135 Kmph and be rock steady.
The only problem was geting on the gas while in a corner would lift the front wheel / make it light but in a straight line it was stable.

My first Bullet a 1965 350 STD bullet was so steady at 100 Kmph.
That I could carry a pillow and lie on the bike. We would do stuff like stand on the seat and it would keep its line. Even over pot holes. (I was 14 when I had it).
Actually my dad was in the armed forces. And ever station he would command Id pick up one of the bullets from the MT section and ride it. Every single STD 350 was the same. Rock stable at 100 Kmph. In fact it took a lot of effort to get it to change its line.

What changed in the UCE.






ace.cafe

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 01:55:47 PM »


What changed in the UCE.


The whole frame and suspension are different.
Most of the comments that I've heard from people seemed to be positive about better handling.

I think you'll have to go to the basics, like making sure that the head bearing is adjusted and working right, and that the forks are straight and clamped into the fork clamp evenly, and there is the same amount of damping fluid in each leg, and that the bearings are not wobbling, and stuff like that. Just set it up from scratch.

Then look at the rear end, and make sure that the wheel is aligned properly in the swing-arm. It is common that the chain adjusting plates need to have different positions on the plate notches, to get the rear wheel aligned with the front wheel.
Check your rear wheel bearing for play also.
And check your spokes and wheels for run-out. Maybe they aren't true.

If that doesn't do it, try a lower adjustment on the rear shocks, so the bike  sits lower in the back, and changes the trail geometry. That usually improves straight-line stability. You might even try a shorter set of rear shocks, if you can find some to try out.

I know that this is all very basic stuff, but sometimes you have to go back to a "zero starting poiint", and work it out from there.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 01:59:59 PM by ace.cafe »
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t120rbullet

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 08:55:13 PM »
Im sorry to say this but this kind of response does miff me a bit.
Its a 500cc bike for crying out.
I want to do 100 Kmph. Without feeling like the bike is going to throw me.
Is that being un-resonable ?

Its not like Im asking to do even 65 MPH. Or 70 or 80 or 90 or 100.
60 MPH and Id be happy.
Is that really too much to ask for.
Does it really warrant a wise crack like there are better bikes to do it on ?

What are you implying ? 60 MPH too fast ? or that I dont know there are other bikes out there ?
Ok sorry Im stupid.
Please tell me what speed I should ride the bike at. Ill stick to that number.

The reason for this post is to see if its just me or this bike. Or do others feel it too.
If everybody says it cant do 60MPH. Then thats cool with me.

Did take it to the dealer. They test rode it and said its fine.
SO that door is closed for now.

Did own a Thunderbird AVL 350 which would do 135 Kmph and be rock steady.
The only problem was geting on the gas while in a corner would lift the front wheel / make it light but in a straight line it was stable.

My first Bullet a 1965 350 STD bullet was so steady at 100 Kmph.
That I could carry a pillow and lie on the bike. We would do stuff like stand on the seat and it would keep its line. Even over pot holes. (I was 14 when I had it).
Actually my dad was in the armed forces. And ever station he would command Id pick up one of the bullets from the MT section and ride it. Every single STD 350 was the same. Rock stable at 100 Kmph. In fact it took a lot of effort to get it to change its line.

What changed in the UCE.


What's the matter? Too much coffee or are your panties all wadded up?

You asked how fast I had my bike and I told you. I tried to get across that the experience was not what I'd like do all the time on that little 500cc bike and all I said was there were better bikes for the job.

Nothing for you to start foaming at the mouth over.
CJ

 
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2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

hocko

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 10:02:09 PM »
It seems happiest at about 60mph.   I feel that the bike is a bit on the light side for over 70mph sustained cruising, passing semi's and wind can affect the handling to a degree, but ridden as it was designed to be ridden, that is comfortable highway (60) speeds, not a problem.

Cheers  :)

r80rt

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 10:29:11 PM »
I ride my C5  60-65 mph all the time, I have ridden at 75mph for a few miles on the freeway. Most of my riding is on smooth two lane blacktop. handles like a dream at 60, it's a little light and twitchy at 75. I bought it for pleasure not speed, I got no complaints.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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hocko

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 10:39:59 PM »
I ride my C5  60-65 mph all the time, I have ridden at 75mph for a few miles on the freeway. Most of my riding is on smooth two lane blacktop. handles like a dream at 60, it's a little light and twitchy at 75. I bought it for pleasure not speed, I got no complaints.

Well said, that's what I was alluding to, been there done that with the speed machines,all i'm after now is the pure pleasure of riding a simple and uncomplicated machine and it does the job very well.

Cheers  :)

singhg5

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 03:09:50 AM »
......  I want to do 100 Kmph. Without feeling like the bike is going to throw me.
Is that being un-resonable ?

Its not like Im asking to do even 65 MPH. Or 70 or 80 or 90 or 100.
60 MPH and Id be happy.

Please tell me what speed I should ride the bike at. Ill stick to that number.

The reason for this post is to see if its just me or this bike. Or do others feel it too.
If everybody says it cant do 60MPH. Then thats cool with me.

Ron Ji:
 
For me G5 is at its best at 55 - 60 mph on the speedo (that is actually 50 to 55 mph because its speedo is off as I have posted in another thread).  The motorcycle feels stable, smooth and steady at 55 mph on speedo.  As the speed goes up it starts to become a little bouncy and the handle bar starts vibrating then stabilizes a bit as I push faster (may be my grip tightens !).  At 80 mph, it feels light and not that pleasant.  The road was flat and smooth highway with no wind. 

As always ACE has good ideas.  Can it match the experience that you had with your standard 1965 350 cc ? I doubt it.  Still I love it.
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 05:33:21 AM »
 ;D
Yeah too much coffee sorry.  :-[
The wife's taken her panties back. ;)
And Ive just spent the last 3 days sitting on the floor. Taking 720 cam readings at 1/1000 of an inch.

Thanks Ace Ive noted your points. I plan to strip into the suspension. As soon as I finish putting the engine back together. Im going thru the engine with a fine tooth comb right now. Blue printing any engine has never been this much fun or as rewarding.

I thought it was called the classic because it retained all the features of the classic. i.e. basic frame / rake / trail etc.


I only hope I dont land up having to move the engine around i.e. lower / back / forward.
This bike has to be able to handle at least 130 Kmph which is the company rated top speed. Then Ill be happy.

We used to have similar issues with our land speed bikes.  We would get one of our speed monkeys onto it to do a punch thru run.
Two things would happen.
a. It would wobble like crazy and then go rock solid. or
b. It would throw the rider. And we knew we would have to go back to the drawing board  ;D

Peace out.
Ps: Some people have reported replacing the front tyre worked for them.


t120rbullet

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 12:12:43 PM »
;D

Ps: Some people have reported replacing the front tyre worked for them.


I forgot to mention that I did replace the stock Avon Speedmaster/Safety Mileage combo with a set of Avon Roadriders.
I don't know if the change affected the high speed handling though. My G5 has no bad tendency's at speed at all other than it vibrates the fillings out of my teeth over 65 MPH.
Just a thought but if your C5 has the 18" wheels you might want to find yourself a 19" wheel for the front end.  I heard that it really improves the C5's.
CJ
   
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csbdr

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 10:31:59 AM »
95mph on the c5.  Downhill, wind to my back on smooth 3 lane highway, feet on the rear pegs and chin on the speedo.  Bike was stable but very easy to induce a head-shake. FIRM grip on the bars.  Frightening on this bike, but ton may be doable with new exhaust.

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 05:56:34 AM »
Nope you wont see the ton on this bike.
The rev limiter is set at 5500.
So no matter how steep that slope or how much tail wind you catch.
The max speed on paper is 150 Kmph.

The company claims 130 Kmph.
Id really like to see the bike ride able at least at 60 MPH.

I think its time to put some pressure on RE to sort this out.
I know it can be done. Because Ive seen the test bikes do 140.
Off course this was on a Track but they can be made stable.
If RE wants.

In its present shape well its only safe to a real speed off 50-55 MPH as Singh Ji has pointed out.
Im sorry guys. Im not on any nostalgia trip. For me the bike needs to be functional first and foremost.

Ive seen more fuss made about stuff like paint in tank, and side stand switches. When this is the real issue that needs sorting.






Eamon

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2010, 07:05:45 AM »
Nope you wont see the ton on this bike.
The rev limiter is set at 5500.
So no matter how steep that slope or how much tail wind you catch.
The max speed on paper is 150 Kmph.

The company claims 130 Kmph.
Id really like to see the bike ride able at least at 60 MPH.

I think its time to put some pressure on RE to sort this out.
I know it can be done. Because Ive seen the test bikes do 140.
Off course this was on a Track but they can be made stable.
If RE wants.

In its present shape well its only safe to a real speed off 50-55 MPH as Singh Ji has pointed out.
Im sorry guys. Im not on any nostalgia trip. For me the bike needs to be functional first and foremost.

Ive seen more fuss made about stuff like paint in tank, and side stand switches. When this is the real issue that needs sorting.

Something must be setup incorrectly on your bike.  My brother's UCE Bullet is solid at 70 mph (approx. 113 kph).  It seems to me that RE has it sorted out, but possibly your dealer does not.  It is utter nonsense to suggest these bikes are only safe at 50-55 mph.  If this is the case with your bike, then it has a setup issue that certainly needs to be addressed, but that can happen with any bike.  I'm not trying to argue with you, but such sweeping statements as yours are not backed up by every UCE Bullet owner I have talked to (or the one my brother owns, which I rode).

Eamon
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2010, 08:38:46 AM »
Fair enough
I am not arguing with you either. Or with anybody.
Just asking.
Im sorry if not all my posts are happy ones.
Nobody likes an un-happy post. But if there is an issue it can be discussed right.

And all the answers Ive got so far tell me the same thing.
Your case would be the first exception.  Other people who say its ok.
Have made some change be it changing the front tyre / size etc. Which is all useful info. Or it could just be that they have really good roads in your city.

If you think there is a better way of addressing this issue.
Please guide me.

I love my bike and want to have as much fun as I can on it.
SAFELY.

holodeck

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 06:59:52 PM »
Your brothers bike is a g5, not a c5, is it not?

Eamon

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2010, 07:46:41 PM »
Your brothers bike is a g5, not a c5, is it not?

Yup, my brother's bike is indeed a G5.  The original post was referring to UCE bikes, both G5 and C5, was it not (or did I miss something)?

I have no idea how it feels at top speed (or what it's top speed even is), but the bike feels just fine at 70.  He bought it from VInce, so that may have something to do with it.   :)  Vince and his guys are meticulous about setup on new bikes.

Eamon
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holodeck

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 09:22:16 PM »
The reason I ask is because Chinoy owns a c5 and that is the bike he is having trouble with. I am interested in buying a c5 but there are several things about it that I don't like and my doubts about the puchase  are growing every day.

Corbin

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 10:09:39 PM »
Hello,

I have owned my Bullet Classic EFI since last April and have reached 85 mph with ease.  The road was flat and smooth (A Road with a speed limit of 70 mph) and I have never experienced what you are talking about.  My bike feels steady as can be even with the terrible crosswinds Ireland suffers from time to time.

May I ask how many miles you have put on your bike?  I found that with mine it took at least fifteen hundred miles before she was truely broken in and able to go past 60 mph.  Anything before this just felt uncomfortable and vibrated too much.  Maybe it just needs more time to be broken in?!?

Anyways, hope it gets resolved sooner rather than later.
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72westie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 10:17:28 PM »
I just went and checked the dyno run we didi on a bone stock UCE and the top speed shown in 5th gear was 77 MPH. I am pretty positive I ran it WFO until the rev-limiter kicked in.
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2010, 06:20:45 AM »
I fail to see what run in has got to do with the way the bike handles.
Its true Ive only done around 1000 Kms on my bike. Which is like 600 miles.
Run in is more to do with the engine and the gear box. But Ive not seen anything improve as the bike has run in.
 
77 MPH is 124 Kmph. Even the company only claims 130 Kmph.
You have to wonder when you hear guys claiming faster speeds. Guess some roads slope down more than others.

Have you changed the rear tyre on your bike ?

We are talking real speed not whats shown on the meter.

Id really like to see the Dyno numbers for your C5 if you can share them.
my email id is ronchinoy at hotmail.com

I will be putting my bike on the Dyno also but after the run in.
Because I dont want it to be said that the bike was not run in hence you didnt get the right numbers. In fact pretty much everybody who is buying a C5 in the club will be putting their bikes on the Dyno.

EAMON
Vince is like an Expert on these bikes. You can bet he would have sorted out any issues in the first week of owning it.
Can you tell us what rubber you have on the bike. Because there seems to be a pattern emerging i.e. stock rubber = trouble. Chaged rubber = no problem.
i.e. Singh Ji is on stock rubber as am I.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 06:50:48 AM by chinoy »

72westie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2010, 03:10:13 PM »
Here is the thread I had made about it. It was a customer's G5 that we ran. Rev limiter on it was at 5K, not 5500.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,5462.0.html

I can also put the graph showing the all gear run I did, which shows the 77MPH top speed. The graphs in that thread are just 4th gear power runs.
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2009 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
2010 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
http://www.bgmotorcycle.com

t120rbullet

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2010, 03:36:30 PM »

77 MPH is 124 Kmph. Even the company only claims 130 Kmph.
You have to wonder when you hear guys claiming faster speeds. Guess some roads slope down more than others.


Or some speedometers are a bit more optimistic than others.
I should have stated the speed I had my G5 up to in EMPH (Enfield miles per hour) instead of MPH. LOL
CJ
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2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Eamon

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2010, 04:38:01 PM »
EAMON
Vince is like an Expert on these bikes. You can bet he would have sorted out any issues in the first week of owning it.
Can you tell us what rubber you have on the bike. Because there seems to be a pattern emerging i.e. stock rubber = trouble. Chaged rubber = no problem.
i.e. Singh Ji is on stock rubber as am I.


Hi Chinoy,
Yeah, Vince is the man!  My brother's G5 has the 19" Avon Speedmaster (front), Safety Mileage (rear) tires that came stock on it.  I think C5's come stock here in the USA with Avon AM26 Roadriders.  What does your bike have?  I put Roadriders on my 2006 iron barrel Bullet and they seem to handle very well, but I of  course have the older style bike, so it's not a good comparison.

Eamon
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REpozer

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2010, 05:38:37 PM »
This may help. On my AVL Classic, I had a high speed wobble problem at approx 60 mph or 90 kph. My rear wheel was not lined up with the front wheel or frame.
An alignment with a string from front to rear solved this problem.
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r80rt

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2010, 09:09:57 PM »
 "Other people who say its ok.
Have made some change be it changing the front tyre / size etc. Which is all useful info. Or it could just be that they have really good roads in your city."

My C5 is bone stock except for the upswept exhaust, it's rock solid and steady at 60-65mph, it's solid and steady at 70mph,  I've ridden it at 80mph, it's just light for that speed, if your bike is unstable at 60 you need to get it back to the dealer.
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csbdr

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 03:51:43 PM »
Well, sorry you're having such issues.  For the sceptics out there, I verified my speedo with GPS.  It was dead on at 70 mph, and 3 mph optomistic at 95.   Not bad for an Enfield speedo.  Factory "top speed" , dyno, and real riding are totally different situatiuons.  I had the bike out in the twisties in the Fall at 70 mph and it was wonderfully stable.  Not a worry at all, so I also would disagree with the idea that these bikes aren't safe/stable past 50-55 mph.  That's just nonsense.

r80rt

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 04:41:25 PM »
Yep, It's nonsense.
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UncleErnie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 11:19:23 PM »
The OP never actually SAYS what the problem is, but I'm getting that it's not fast enough and that it doesn't feel right at speed...

First, quite simply- you don't have enough miles on the biie to ge fast.  The engine simply won't do it unless properly broken in.  If Vince is your dealer, I'm surprised you missed that point.  Yes- the UCE is better than the previous iterations of RE engines, but you still need a proper break-in period.  It's rather remarkable that you're diassembling the engine already!

Handling;  although a superior model of bike, it's still a Royal Enfield.  Expect to go over EVERYTHING.  Change the fork oil now.  Make sure the shock settings are symetrical.  If that ribbed tire still comes stock- change it.  Make sure the rear wheel is aligned properly.  What are your tire pressures?  I recommend 30 front and 32 rear, unless you weigh more than 200 punds or carry a passenger. 

I have a feeling your steering bearing are too tight.  With the front wheel off the ground, it should move quite easily from side to side with no "catches" or nothy feeling.  OTOH, it should not just flop from side to side, either.  If you feel like you need to push the wheel from side to side- it's too tight.  Bearings (or a stering dampener) that are too tight can make the bike feel scary at speed.
Run what ya brung

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2010, 05:10:56 AM »
I have to finally jump in here. If your bike is not handling the way you think it should GET IT FIXED. It seems foolishness to ride it if you aren't comfortable with it.
 
I think you are from India by your ip address, I did not check deeper into the board so if that is obvious excuse me. I mention it  because there are different variables in a bike made for the domestic market including which assembly line they are made on. For starters you have different tyres  than we have here, much  different. We have no idea of the kind of care that was taken setting your bike up by your dealer.

As ACE has pointed out there are many reasons it may not handle the way you think it should, all of them small in themselves,  none of them design related. A good dealer in the US will go over all of those small things and road test the bike to make sure everything is right.

TAKE IT  YOUR DEALER AND GET IT FIXED - All of the advice we can give you means nothing until someone competent looks at the bike.

I don't mean any offense here,  but for crying out loud FIX IT.

As a PS and unrelated to your situation. Even with these new bikes breakin is critical. You will feel the bike change big time from new to 500 ,miles, it does that for a reason. . Scooter Bob has literally had hundreds of these apart and has used and abused them, It is better break them in.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 05:14:24 AM by Kevin Mahoney »

jayprashanth

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2010, 05:35:03 AM »
Ron Chinoy is from India and imho. he's one of the best motorcycle tuners in the country. And he disassembling the engine so early is to see how he can tune it/blueprint it to go faster/perform better than stock. Coming to Kevin's point of the Indian motorcycles having a few variations from the export versions, it is completely right. Most Indian bullets use a cheaper brand/version of tires to keep costs low. This causes skidding especially in the case of the ribbed front which is prone to skidding on sandy/dusty surfaces. Also, the oxygen sensor is missing on the Indian versions of the UCE which is suspected to be causing plenty of issues. Sadly, the PDI done at most Indian dealers are pretty shoddy to say the least. This is frustrating for us, the Indian customers but we do our best to sort things out ourselves. About taking the motorcycle in to the dealer, more often than not they are as clueless as us. From my personal experience with RE dealers in India, I believe DIY is the way to go.

Cheers,

Jay

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 07:18:54 AM »
Yes Im in India.
Yes Im chuffed as hell with the new UCE.
And love it to bits.

Its fast.
No its the fastest Indian bike in Production from 0-100 where it counts on these roads.

Get it fixed ah how sweet that sounds.

The dealer and a senior RE guy drooped in on Sat. With some new tools for the UCE and a calender.
Seems he was under the weather with the flu.

Took him down and showed him the bike. He looked impressed with the way the bike was sounding. Zero engine noise in fact if you block off the exhaust you cant hear anything from the engine.

The handling issue was discussed.
I did show him what I thought was excessive swing arm play.
He said this was normal and not the cause for my problems.
Which was a big blow to me. Here I was sitting thinking they would shim it up and the bike would be fine.

I did tell him that ace and a few others here had suggested a 19" front.
He seemed to like that idea. And the dealer offered to get me a 19" front to try.

I think its funny that the latest UCE 350 just released is now coming with 19" front and 18" rear.
Looks like a tube light fired somewhere at the factory and they figured out the 18x18 setup was maybe not such a bright idea.

I was hoping that the smart guys here could come up with a plan to improve the handling. After all if we know a 19" front helps. Then work it backwards i.e. try to figure out if adjusting the ride height or the rake and trail would also help.

It so happens that Sat evenings is also a club get together day. So a  lot of the really smart bikers where around. And after the normal ribbing session for buying a RE. They got into going over the bike and frame.

The concesus from the boys was. Its the swing arm design.
This design was not designed to take a 500cc motor which makes 28 BHP.

If its a toss up between changing my complete front wheel, hub, rim, tyres, mud gurad etc etc vs just fixing the swing arm. Ill take the swing arm route.
Just about any swing arm from any bike 50-200cc would do a better job than whats on the bike.

Ive done some miles on torque motors like the BMW GS 1100 and the Yamaha V-Max. Both torque motors. And understand the importance of a good swing arm.

If you put the bike on the stand start it and put it into gear then whack the throttle open no load. Watch the wheel and swing arm. Then again Im not sure because when your doing 100 Kmph its not like your accelrating or putting serious load on the swinger.

Im new to bulls.
This is the first bike I have purchased brand new from the show room. IN my life.
And plan to ride this bike for as long as I can swing a leg over it.

Some of my club members have said that the situation is improved simply by replacing the front rubber. i.e. Go up a size.

I have no doubt that the bikes you guys get are better and setup by your experienced dealers quite differently  from what we get here.

Here people are so starved for cc and power that we will accept pretty much anything. As RE has the monopoly on big cc engines.

My next option is a 220cc bike that wont do even 90 Kmph with my weight on it.

There seem to be two types of RE owners
a. Those who think the Bike is perfect and you dont mess with perfection.
b. Those who love the bikes but think there is scope to improve.

The last bullet I worked on was a AVL 350. An air filter and dialing in the jeting gave us a bike which was fast to 120 Kmph and did a true 135 Kmph. on the radar. And it was stable. The only gripe was that you cant get on the throtell in a corner because the front end would lift off.

So I find it a bit odd that a 500 is struggling to do these speeds.
The AVL 350 twin spark. Looks so cool. And its so comforatble to ride.
 The only reason I bit my tongue and took the C5 was because of the CC and extra power. I would have loved a thunder bird with the UCE 500 engine in it.

Feel free to delete this post. Or lock it.
I feel guilty as hell for starting it.

My main objective is to see if this was just my bike or was it common to all.
In this country it would seem its common to all.
In the USA it would seem it depends on how talented and knowledgeable your dealer is.

We have an old guy called Munir in Bangalore. Who has been working on these bikes for over 40 years. Will pay him a visit and see what he says.

clubman

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 01:21:01 PM »
Hi Chinoy,

I'm not making a direct comparison between my bike, (which is rock steady), and yours since mine has ace bars, 19 inch wheels and Avon tyres but it does at least have the same swing arm. I know said swing arm is spindly by todays standards but it's the same diameter as on my Morini 350 of 1982, (which was at least as fast as the Enfield), and that was a great handling bike even though it was set up for very quick steering too. I think the swing arm is up to the job. I'm surprised that any play at all is deemed acceptable but if that is the opinion of a top RE guy then I'm not going to argue.

I wish you luck in sorting your problem. If you haven't done already I would definitely put Avon rubber on it.


UncleErnie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 03:45:42 PM »
Why delete your thread- we're working here.
Re dealers;  they're NOT all covered in fairy dust with angels on high singing hallelujah here, either.
And -like I said- Royal Enfields don't come off the assembly line one identicl to the others.  When I got mine home, some critical nuts were only hand tight, the forks had very different amounhts of oil in them, etc.  So- I can believe you got the one bike that month where the swing arm may need shims.  Or a wheel bearing has already spun.  Or the steering head bearings are too tight.   They may all LOOK the same, but they're not.

Front tire; Bernie sets the road on fire with his stock ribbed tire.  I don't know how he does it- I changed mine out for a better tire almost immediately.  The only problem is- I have no more excuses when Bernie leaves me eating his dust.

PS- Long shot here, but go over your rear shocks, too.  I once had one come loose and caused the bike to feel like my tire was going flat.
Run what ya brung

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2010, 04:15:50 PM »
Thanks for support Uncle Ernie.
Trust me Im going to go thru each and every tip posted on this thread and the others.
I went to the extent of yanking out all the wires in my headlight dome just in case they where the culprit.

Ive been invited over to the dealers for them to have a look at the problem but from past experiences Im not holding my breath.

When I took the bike to them saying the engine was making too much noise
I was told this is normal. I fixed the noise issue with a blue print. Or I could have waited 3000 Kms I hear thats how long it takes for the parts to wear. Never been one to wait around for things to happen. Lifes too short.


When I took the bike to them and said it was impossible to ride it at a slow speed i.e. chug along like any real bullet should. I was told no you cant this is efi. First I was told there is nothing wrong. Thats the first responce I get every single time.

But when I insisted and took the guy for a ride and showed him what I was refering to. I was told this is EFI. Your engine is not seeing enough petrol. Open your throtell more. But then its not chugging along.
I solved this problem by modding the stock mufler. Where the exit from the first bend pipe hits a metal wall I drilled a 2nd hole. Now she chugs along just fine.

While I appreciate all the tyre recommendations. They dont help me much as we dont get any of that rubber here.

Looks like I have a 19" front in my Karma and that's that.





ace.cafe

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2010, 05:38:06 PM »
I don't think that the swing arm is the problem.
I know the UCE has a longer swing arm, but it is sufficient.

The old Bullets can take 40 hp with the stock swing arm, even with the rubber bushes in there, no problem. The test Bullet that Chumma is riding uses a stock swing arm and rubber bushes, and that is putting down 34 ft-lbs of torque, which is well in excess of what the UCE is doing.

There could be an alignment problem, or something like that, but I seriously doubt that the bike is "overpowering" that swing arm.

My opinion is that it's a problem with set-up, or there's a tire problem.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2010, 08:16:49 AM »
Some old timers came over yesterday to check out the UCE.
Some of them are thinking of buying one.

One look at the bike and he explained to me what was probally going on.

First off the swing arm play I was refering too. Seems its normal. On all bullets because the swing arm does have rubber bushes which will flex.

Second thing he said was looks like somebody asked for extra wide rubber on the rear.
So how would RE fit that extra wide rubber in ? In the old days we would crimp the swing arm tubes to fit the wider rubber.

Well they did the simplest thing possible. They made the swing arm longer.
Just so that they could fit the wider rubber in.

The loic at the time would have been a longer swing arm should help straight line stability. What they didnt take into consideration was stiffness of the swing arm.

His idea is get an old bullet swing arm. Plug it on. If required use a thinner rear you will find it handles just as well as any other bullet.
Or
Figure out how to get the same stiffness of the shorter swing arm. On this one.

They nicknamed it the UCE= Under Construction Engine.
Jokes aside they all loved it and are planing on buying one.

Ace you quoted an example of some guy making a lot of power.
What you didnt mention was if the said bike is a UCE or an old bullet.


ace.cafe

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2010, 01:53:38 PM »

Ace you quoted an example of some guy making a lot of power.
What you didnt mention was if the said bike is a UCE or an old bullet.



Older Bullet. Iron Barrel 535.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2010, 06:19:49 AM »
Cool thanks for clarifying that.

Arjun

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 10:22:58 AM »
Hi Chinoy,

I recently brought a RE Classic 500 in Hyderabad, India. For what its worth, I have not had any issues driving it at 100 kmph. My bike is completely stock, including the "Desi" tyres. However, I agree with what some of the others have pointed out, which is that you have to definitely break in the bike before taking it to 100. I experienced significant vibrations when I was trying to ride the bike at 100 before the 500km servicing. However, as the miles tag on the engine seems to be getting smoother and settling in. In  fact, today, I took it out for a 150km trip and my odo read 813, when I hit the highway initially the vibrations still felt harsh at 100 therefore I went easy on the engine by pulling the throttle in and letting it catch its breath and then letting her have it again after 10 or so kms. After about 60 kms of doing this I could feel a noticeable difference in the performance. While coming back I was cruising at 100 without noticing and touched 110 with minimal vibration. I deliberately did not push the engine, but I feel that after another 500kms the 110-120 mark should not be an issue.

That said, it seems like you have a lot of experience riding, which I don't, therefore what you consider "smooth" running at that speed could be relative to my expectations. All I can say is that in my experience the engine performance has definitely obeyed the breaking in laws. My friendly suggestion is that dont expect her to handcuff you and ride you like a cowgirl on steroids yet, first court her gently and show her a good time.

Peace.

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2010, 08:07:54 AM »
People are already claiming 130 and 140 Kmph on the C5. In India.

Arjun

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2010, 10:47:52 AM »
I meant cruising at 120 as RE claims 

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2010, 05:48:04 PM »
what road and for how long. Did you feel the bike was stable / ride-able ?
If yes thats good news for me.
It could also be the quality of the roads.

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2010, 04:28:57 AM »
what road and for how long. Did you feel the bike was stable / ride-able ?
If yes thats good news for me.
It could also be the quality of the roads.

Chennai to Krishnagiri highway top speed was 122 kph sustained for about 3 minutes at a time. Vibrations from handlebar and footpegs was quite pronounced but no twitchiness in handling. Sweet spot seemed to be at 100-110 kph where the C5 felt it could sit there all day long. Huge, huge difference in touring on the C5 as compared to the cast iron 500 or the LB 500.

HMR

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2010, 09:12:28 AM »
Yeah found the same my self the sweet spot is 100-110
Its after this that I have issues.
At 100 it starts to feel un-comfortable.
By 110 its telling you very clearly I dont wish to be pushed any more.

Honestly Ive not had the balls to push it past this.
Partly because I haven't finished the run in. And partly because I dont think its safe.

Not tried it on any highway. Just regular Bangalore Ring Road.
It would seem its easier to go faster in 4th rather than trying to push 5th.



Arjun

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2010, 08:27:39 AM »
Chinoy and HMR, whats the mileage on your bikes? Chinoy, separate question, does the unswept exhaust improve performance?

Thanks in advance.

BTW regarding my previous post: I was driving on NH9 between Hyderabad to Delhi. I believe its part of the golden quad, therefore the road quality was excellent.


HMR

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2010, 04:44:14 AM »
Chinoy and HMR, whats the mileage on your bikes? Chinoy, separate question, does the unswept exhaust improve performance?

Thanks in advance.


32 kpl approx, 1200 km on the odo, with the upswept exhaust.

Chinoy, perhaps bracing the subframe could improve your bikes handling... just a thought

HMR

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2010, 12:14:45 PM »
Got busted by the cops for speading.
128 Kmph two up on the Bangalore Airport road.
Ok it was DOWNHILL  :D

First he said fine is Rs 350/- then he asked for my Licence and pappers.
I knew that would go on my record. So told him I dont have any licence and pappers with me.

He took what cash I had and told me to get lost.

It would seem type of Road plays a critical role in stablity.
This is a new road and quality is better than most.


Senadin

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2010, 02:39:00 AM »
It's been a while since the last post.

As there been any changes?

The reason i am asking is because i am contemplating buying a C5 2010 military version.

I DO know that they arent made for speed. However considering it is a 500cc, one should expect more than 110 out of a 500cc.

My concerns is that there are some stretch of highway here in Calgary were i am not sure a bike doing 100kmh would be safe. (even tho the posted limit is 100kms...)

Most folk drive 130-140

Beside this ONE thing i totally love the bike and i sure hope my financing will be approved!


Chris-G5

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2010, 03:01:08 AM »
It's been a while since the last post.

As there been any changes?

The reason i am asking is because i am contemplating buying a C5 2010 military version.

I DO know that they arent made for speed. However considering it is a 500cc, one should expect more than 110 out of a 500cc.

My concerns is that there are some stretch of highway here in Calgary were i am not sure a bike doing 100kmh would be safe. (even tho the posted limit is 100kms...)

Most folk drive 130-140

Beside this ONE thing i totally love the bike and i sure hope my financing will be approved!


I regularly cruise at 70mph (113kph) and that is about all I would recommend. I have on occasion cruised in the 75-80mph (120-129kph) but wind and hills will limit those speeds. The fastest I've had it is close to 90mph (145kph) going down a hill.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 03:08:46 AM by Chris-G5 »