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Author Topic: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE  (Read 4469 times)

UncleErnie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 11:19:23 PM »
The OP never actually SAYS what the problem is, but I'm getting that it's not fast enough and that it doesn't feel right at speed...

First, quite simply- you don't have enough miles on the biie to ge fast.  The engine simply won't do it unless properly broken in.  If Vince is your dealer, I'm surprised you missed that point.  Yes- the UCE is better than the previous iterations of RE engines, but you still need a proper break-in period.  It's rather remarkable that you're diassembling the engine already!

Handling;  although a superior model of bike, it's still a Royal Enfield.  Expect to go over EVERYTHING.  Change the fork oil now.  Make sure the shock settings are symetrical.  If that ribbed tire still comes stock- change it.  Make sure the rear wheel is aligned properly.  What are your tire pressures?  I recommend 30 front and 32 rear, unless you weigh more than 200 punds or carry a passenger. 

I have a feeling your steering bearing are too tight.  With the front wheel off the ground, it should move quite easily from side to side with no "catches" or nothy feeling.  OTOH, it should not just flop from side to side, either.  If you feel like you need to push the wheel from side to side- it's too tight.  Bearings (or a stering dampener) that are too tight can make the bike feel scary at speed.
Run what ya brung

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2010, 05:10:56 AM »
I have to finally jump in here. If your bike is not handling the way you think it should GET IT FIXED. It seems foolishness to ride it if you aren't comfortable with it.
 
I think you are from India by your ip address, I did not check deeper into the board so if that is obvious excuse me. I mention it  because there are different variables in a bike made for the domestic market including which assembly line they are made on. For starters you have different tyres  than we have here, much  different. We have no idea of the kind of care that was taken setting your bike up by your dealer.

As ACE has pointed out there are many reasons it may not handle the way you think it should, all of them small in themselves,  none of them design related. A good dealer in the US will go over all of those small things and road test the bike to make sure everything is right.

TAKE IT  YOUR DEALER AND GET IT FIXED - All of the advice we can give you means nothing until someone competent looks at the bike.

I don't mean any offense here,  but for crying out loud FIX IT.

As a PS and unrelated to your situation. Even with these new bikes breakin is critical. You will feel the bike change big time from new to 500 ,miles, it does that for a reason. . Scooter Bob has literally had hundreds of these apart and has used and abused them, It is better break them in.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 05:14:24 AM by Kevin Mahoney »

jayprashanth

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2010, 05:35:03 AM »
Ron Chinoy is from India and imho. he's one of the best motorcycle tuners in the country. And he disassembling the engine so early is to see how he can tune it/blueprint it to go faster/perform better than stock. Coming to Kevin's point of the Indian motorcycles having a few variations from the export versions, it is completely right. Most Indian bullets use a cheaper brand/version of tires to keep costs low. This causes skidding especially in the case of the ribbed front which is prone to skidding on sandy/dusty surfaces. Also, the oxygen sensor is missing on the Indian versions of the UCE which is suspected to be causing plenty of issues. Sadly, the PDI done at most Indian dealers are pretty shoddy to say the least. This is frustrating for us, the Indian customers but we do our best to sort things out ourselves. About taking the motorcycle in to the dealer, more often than not they are as clueless as us. From my personal experience with RE dealers in India, I believe DIY is the way to go.

Cheers,

Jay

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 07:18:54 AM »
Yes Im in India.
Yes Im chuffed as hell with the new UCE.
And love it to bits.

Its fast.
No its the fastest Indian bike in Production from 0-100 where it counts on these roads.

Get it fixed ah how sweet that sounds.

The dealer and a senior RE guy drooped in on Sat. With some new tools for the UCE and a calender.
Seems he was under the weather with the flu.

Took him down and showed him the bike. He looked impressed with the way the bike was sounding. Zero engine noise in fact if you block off the exhaust you cant hear anything from the engine.

The handling issue was discussed.
I did show him what I thought was excessive swing arm play.
He said this was normal and not the cause for my problems.
Which was a big blow to me. Here I was sitting thinking they would shim it up and the bike would be fine.

I did tell him that ace and a few others here had suggested a 19" front.
He seemed to like that idea. And the dealer offered to get me a 19" front to try.

I think its funny that the latest UCE 350 just released is now coming with 19" front and 18" rear.
Looks like a tube light fired somewhere at the factory and they figured out the 18x18 setup was maybe not such a bright idea.

I was hoping that the smart guys here could come up with a plan to improve the handling. After all if we know a 19" front helps. Then work it backwards i.e. try to figure out if adjusting the ride height or the rake and trail would also help.

It so happens that Sat evenings is also a club get together day. So a  lot of the really smart bikers where around. And after the normal ribbing session for buying a RE. They got into going over the bike and frame.

The concesus from the boys was. Its the swing arm design.
This design was not designed to take a 500cc motor which makes 28 BHP.

If its a toss up between changing my complete front wheel, hub, rim, tyres, mud gurad etc etc vs just fixing the swing arm. Ill take the swing arm route.
Just about any swing arm from any bike 50-200cc would do a better job than whats on the bike.

Ive done some miles on torque motors like the BMW GS 1100 and the Yamaha V-Max. Both torque motors. And understand the importance of a good swing arm.

If you put the bike on the stand start it and put it into gear then whack the throttle open no load. Watch the wheel and swing arm. Then again Im not sure because when your doing 100 Kmph its not like your accelrating or putting serious load on the swinger.

Im new to bulls.
This is the first bike I have purchased brand new from the show room. IN my life.
And plan to ride this bike for as long as I can swing a leg over it.

Some of my club members have said that the situation is improved simply by replacing the front rubber. i.e. Go up a size.

I have no doubt that the bikes you guys get are better and setup by your experienced dealers quite differently  from what we get here.

Here people are so starved for cc and power that we will accept pretty much anything. As RE has the monopoly on big cc engines.

My next option is a 220cc bike that wont do even 90 Kmph with my weight on it.

There seem to be two types of RE owners
a. Those who think the Bike is perfect and you dont mess with perfection.
b. Those who love the bikes but think there is scope to improve.

The last bullet I worked on was a AVL 350. An air filter and dialing in the jeting gave us a bike which was fast to 120 Kmph and did a true 135 Kmph. on the radar. And it was stable. The only gripe was that you cant get on the throtell in a corner because the front end would lift off.

So I find it a bit odd that a 500 is struggling to do these speeds.
The AVL 350 twin spark. Looks so cool. And its so comforatble to ride.
 The only reason I bit my tongue and took the C5 was because of the CC and extra power. I would have loved a thunder bird with the UCE 500 engine in it.

Feel free to delete this post. Or lock it.
I feel guilty as hell for starting it.

My main objective is to see if this was just my bike or was it common to all.
In this country it would seem its common to all.
In the USA it would seem it depends on how talented and knowledgeable your dealer is.

We have an old guy called Munir in Bangalore. Who has been working on these bikes for over 40 years. Will pay him a visit and see what he says.

clubman

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 01:21:01 PM »
Hi Chinoy,

I'm not making a direct comparison between my bike, (which is rock steady), and yours since mine has ace bars, 19 inch wheels and Avon tyres but it does at least have the same swing arm. I know said swing arm is spindly by todays standards but it's the same diameter as on my Morini 350 of 1982, (which was at least as fast as the Enfield), and that was a great handling bike even though it was set up for very quick steering too. I think the swing arm is up to the job. I'm surprised that any play at all is deemed acceptable but if that is the opinion of a top RE guy then I'm not going to argue.

I wish you luck in sorting your problem. If you haven't done already I would definitely put Avon rubber on it.


UncleErnie

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 03:45:42 PM »
Why delete your thread- we're working here.
Re dealers;  they're NOT all covered in fairy dust with angels on high singing hallelujah here, either.
And -like I said- Royal Enfields don't come off the assembly line one identicl to the others.  When I got mine home, some critical nuts were only hand tight, the forks had very different amounhts of oil in them, etc.  So- I can believe you got the one bike that month where the swing arm may need shims.  Or a wheel bearing has already spun.  Or the steering head bearings are too tight.   They may all LOOK the same, but they're not.

Front tire; Bernie sets the road on fire with his stock ribbed tire.  I don't know how he does it- I changed mine out for a better tire almost immediately.  The only problem is- I have no more excuses when Bernie leaves me eating his dust.

PS- Long shot here, but go over your rear shocks, too.  I once had one come loose and caused the bike to feel like my tire was going flat.
Run what ya brung

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2010, 04:15:50 PM »
Thanks for support Uncle Ernie.
Trust me Im going to go thru each and every tip posted on this thread and the others.
I went to the extent of yanking out all the wires in my headlight dome just in case they where the culprit.

Ive been invited over to the dealers for them to have a look at the problem but from past experiences Im not holding my breath.

When I took the bike to them saying the engine was making too much noise
I was told this is normal. I fixed the noise issue with a blue print. Or I could have waited 3000 Kms I hear thats how long it takes for the parts to wear. Never been one to wait around for things to happen. Lifes too short.


When I took the bike to them and said it was impossible to ride it at a slow speed i.e. chug along like any real bullet should. I was told no you cant this is efi. First I was told there is nothing wrong. Thats the first responce I get every single time.

But when I insisted and took the guy for a ride and showed him what I was refering to. I was told this is EFI. Your engine is not seeing enough petrol. Open your throtell more. But then its not chugging along.
I solved this problem by modding the stock mufler. Where the exit from the first bend pipe hits a metal wall I drilled a 2nd hole. Now she chugs along just fine.

While I appreciate all the tyre recommendations. They dont help me much as we dont get any of that rubber here.

Looks like I have a 19" front in my Karma and that's that.





ace.cafe

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2010, 05:38:06 PM »
I don't think that the swing arm is the problem.
I know the UCE has a longer swing arm, but it is sufficient.

The old Bullets can take 40 hp with the stock swing arm, even with the rubber bushes in there, no problem. The test Bullet that Chumma is riding uses a stock swing arm and rubber bushes, and that is putting down 34 ft-lbs of torque, which is well in excess of what the UCE is doing.

There could be an alignment problem, or something like that, but I seriously doubt that the bike is "overpowering" that swing arm.

My opinion is that it's a problem with set-up, or there's a tire problem.
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2010, 08:16:49 AM »
Some old timers came over yesterday to check out the UCE.
Some of them are thinking of buying one.

One look at the bike and he explained to me what was probally going on.

First off the swing arm play I was refering too. Seems its normal. On all bullets because the swing arm does have rubber bushes which will flex.

Second thing he said was looks like somebody asked for extra wide rubber on the rear.
So how would RE fit that extra wide rubber in ? In the old days we would crimp the swing arm tubes to fit the wider rubber.

Well they did the simplest thing possible. They made the swing arm longer.
Just so that they could fit the wider rubber in.

The loic at the time would have been a longer swing arm should help straight line stability. What they didnt take into consideration was stiffness of the swing arm.

His idea is get an old bullet swing arm. Plug it on. If required use a thinner rear you will find it handles just as well as any other bullet.
Or
Figure out how to get the same stiffness of the shorter swing arm. On this one.

They nicknamed it the UCE= Under Construction Engine.
Jokes aside they all loved it and are planing on buying one.

Ace you quoted an example of some guy making a lot of power.
What you didnt mention was if the said bike is a UCE or an old bullet.


ace.cafe

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2010, 01:53:38 PM »

Ace you quoted an example of some guy making a lot of power.
What you didnt mention was if the said bike is a UCE or an old bullet.



Older Bullet. Iron Barrel 535.
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chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2010, 06:19:49 AM »
Cool thanks for clarifying that.

Arjun

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 10:22:58 AM »
Hi Chinoy,

I recently brought a RE Classic 500 in Hyderabad, India. For what its worth, I have not had any issues driving it at 100 kmph. My bike is completely stock, including the "Desi" tyres. However, I agree with what some of the others have pointed out, which is that you have to definitely break in the bike before taking it to 100. I experienced significant vibrations when I was trying to ride the bike at 100 before the 500km servicing. However, as the miles tag on the engine seems to be getting smoother and settling in. In  fact, today, I took it out for a 150km trip and my odo read 813, when I hit the highway initially the vibrations still felt harsh at 100 therefore I went easy on the engine by pulling the throttle in and letting it catch its breath and then letting her have it again after 10 or so kms. After about 60 kms of doing this I could feel a noticeable difference in the performance. While coming back I was cruising at 100 without noticing and touched 110 with minimal vibration. I deliberately did not push the engine, but I feel that after another 500kms the 110-120 mark should not be an issue.

That said, it seems like you have a lot of experience riding, which I don't, therefore what you consider "smooth" running at that speed could be relative to my expectations. All I can say is that in my experience the engine performance has definitely obeyed the breaking in laws. My friendly suggestion is that dont expect her to handcuff you and ride you like a cowgirl on steroids yet, first court her gently and show her a good time.

Peace.

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2010, 08:07:54 AM »
People are already claiming 130 and 140 Kmph on the C5. In India.

Arjun

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2010, 10:47:52 AM »
I meant cruising at 120 as RE claims 

chinoy

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Re: Honest answers only Please. Top Speed done on the UCE
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2010, 05:48:04 PM »
what road and for how long. Did you feel the bike was stable / ride-able ?
If yes thats good news for me.
It could also be the quality of the roads.