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Author Topic: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??  (Read 7594 times)

rajactech

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is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« on: February 05, 2010, 12:29:02 PM »
Have any one tried this ever before...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 01:15:15 PM by rajactech »
-Raja

1980 RE STD 350

ace.cafe

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 01:52:49 PM »
No, turbochargers don't work well on Bullets.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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rajactech

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 02:03:22 PM »
No, turbochargers don't work well on Bullets.
Have you tried to it before??? if so please share your experience...
-Raja

1980 RE STD 350

ace.cafe

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 03:11:27 PM »
Have you tried to it before??? if so please share your experience...

Low-revving single cylinder engines can't "spool up"  a turbo, because there's to much time between exhaust pulses. It doesn't operate the turbo properly.

Secondly, even if you could get the turbo to work somehow, the Bullet cannot withstand the added compression of turbocharging in its hemi chamber, on pump fuel.
It would need to be alcohol or nitro-methane, or something like that.
And there's no way to run an intercooler, either.
Nor is there any way to deal with the ignition timing regulation needed.

And if you somehow managed to get over all  those obstacles, the bottom end of the engine would blow up from the stress that the turbo would put on it.



Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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rajactech

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 03:22:27 PM »
Low-revving single cylinder engines can't "spool up"  a turbo, because there's to much time between exhaust pulses. It doesn't operate the turbo properly.

Secondly, even if you could get the turbo to work somehow, the Bullet cannot withstand the added compression of turbocharging in its hemi chamber, on pump fuel.
It would need to be alcohol or nitro-methane, or something like that.
And there's no way to run an intercooler, either.
Nor is there any way to deal with the ignition timing regulation needed.

And if you somehow managed to get over all  those obstacles, the bottom end of the engine would blow up from the stress that the turbo would put on it.



 
Thanks for the info,and you are really great  :o
-Raja

1980 RE STD 350

rajactech

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 01:10:46 PM »
Ace,can we add turbo to the diesel bike???
-Raja

1980 RE STD 350

Ice

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 04:43:40 AM »
 Turbo charging any single cylinder engine would be difficult and extremely expensive.
The single exhaust pulse does not efficiently spin a turbo. To my knowledge there is no turbo of the right capacity for a Bullet.

A belt or gear driven supercharger would be more effective but just as expensive IMHO

 It will take a lot of research and development at considerable cost as there are many technical obstacles to be overcome. The host engine would require many new parts made specifically for the purpose. Again, to my knowledge there is no super charger of the right capacity for a Bullet.

 In theory it could be done though.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

rajactech

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2010, 09:28:10 AM »
Turbo charging any single cylinder engine would be difficult and extremely expensive.
The single exhaust pulse does not efficiently spin a turbo. To my knowledge there is no turbo of the right capacity for a Bullet.

A belt or gear driven supercharger would be more effective but just as expensive IMHO

 It will take a lot of research and development at considerable cost as there are many technical obstacles to be overcome. The host engine would require many new parts made specifically for the purpose. Again, to my knowledge there is no super charger of the right capacity for a Bullet.

 In theory it could be done though.
Thanks for the  info :)
-Raja

1980 RE STD 350

1Blackwolf1

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 12:35:05 AM »
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 06:33:08 AM »


I own a supercharger fitted on an XS Yamaha 650 twin drag bike in the seventies and like to put it on a single engine.

my original project was to fit it on a TT600R Yamaha power unit which I've mounted on a Cagiva Mito frame and rolling chassis (a Supermono racer I used also on the road for some years) but after sold my funny Cagiva/Yamaha I am considering to use on a crashed Bullet I'm searchin' .now.

For your reference, look at my ex-Cagiva TT600R: 

http://www.motociclismo.it/edisport/moto/motociclismor2.nsf/gd/Special--McDeeb-Supermono-1-Minimalismo

The text is not in English (sorry) but to see more pictures of the bike, click several times on the black characters on the right/ lower part of the text  (like "caratteriistiche tecniche" ans so on, and some shot will open.

About the supercharger (turbo as already told by experts doesn't work on a single engine) I must make a different airbox for the blower , sized right for the Bullet power unit but now I have a few time for this projetc...which cannot be easily suitable for road use, in my opinion.

Cheers

Fabrizio

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 08:18:33 AM »


I've found the link to see more of my ex supermono:

http://www.motociclismo.it/foto-moto/index.php?album=moto-scooter%2FSpecial--McDeeb-Supermono---prova-in-pista

A new "insane" idea is raising in my mind: to put a supercharged Bullet engine in a modern frame and make a retro-tech bike.

I still own another Cagiva Mito rolling chassis...mumble mumble


luoma

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 12:38:39 AM »
Not sure what the point would be of blowing a bullit, but have a look at an interesting turbo-type concept at www.mindblowerchopper.com

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 01:00:35 AM »


The doubt on a blower Bullett is about the real possibility for this engine to riesist to the higher mechanical stresses...my idea to make it is more for "explore" new roads as for true road purpose.

The doubt about spending 535 USD for an electric fan is less important  ;D

(it's the same of installing an air conditioner in your igloo at the North Pole   ;))

I and my mate maked something similar with  an old 50cc moped (a Ciao manufactured by Piaggio, the same factory of Vespa) in the seventies. Without advantage but lot of peoples on E-Bay is offering these "miracle" electric turbos....

If these "things" work, it means that Porsche and KKK and all trubo manufacturers are stupid and the same for all carsproducers which spend a lot of money for true turbos and supercahrgers...

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

single

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 02:46:52 AM »
I ordered one of those.I never got it but I was asked to pay for it again.Hey,why not? I was dumb enough to pay for it once.

Darth Sid

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 10:42:56 PM »
It's been done in Punjab, India. The link below leads to a thread on another forum about a 535cc overbored to 700cc and turbocharged. The guy claims wheelspins in 2nd gear but extreme turbo-lag.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/69024-presenting-rr700-prostreet-turbo-ultimate-bullet-mod-job.html

I hope this is ok. Administrators, please tell me/remove this post if this is against rules or anything on those lines. I'm not promoting anything here, just pointing to some interesting info.
"If it ain't broke to bits, don't fix it!"

1979 Enfield India Bullet 350 "Old Faithful"

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 11:16:34 PM »


Thanks for the interesting thread Sid,

I am not warm about choppers due to its ugly handling but it sems a well done job!  :)

About mounting a turbocharger on a single engine, a 700 cc displacement can make the turbo lag a bit lower but cannot solve the problem of "pulse" .

A supercharger "jointed" to the engine through a properly sized  "air box" could be better.

Some years ago, a tuner called Ivory maked a Yamaha XT 660cc with supercharger which worked realy well, allowing a small batch production of 20 bikes but is quite difficult to find information about its work on the web.

In the old period (about the fifties) the famous italian brand MOTO GUZZI used both a single 250cc ad a V twin 500 cc (similar lay-out to a Ducati engine) coupled to a supercharger.

The 250 scored some landspeed world records and won several races , it demonstraing the good function of supercharged also with a single engine of medium capacity (if fitted with a pressure-chamber between the intake manifold and the blower).

On the opposite, I think the "funny" show-bike with turbo a good object to look but with 40 HP "only" is surely slower as an "atmospheric" tuned Bullet....


A blower Bullet can work well but it need to improve all the internals to resist to the big torque given by  the blowing action.

I hope my English is clear enough... ;)  I know engines (and blowers) but don't use my English language since 2002   :-[ :-[

Cheers
Fabrizio "McDeeb" Di Bella

Ice

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 06:11:36 AM »
Don Pistone,

  Your English is fine.
 My Italian ?,,,,is so bad it would make your ears bleed to hear it.

Ciao,
Ice
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 06:26:49 AM »


Hi Ice ,

if you think my English as "fine"....you probably like my Chinese, too !   :D :D :D

When I travelled a lot for work ,  after spending a nice period in L.A.
 I improved it , while staying some months in  Taipei (Taiwan) i was able only to use the local language to find good food...and girls (not so bad as I supposed).

I still remember some nice places in California and funny engines I had the chance to use there...

My favourite was a Pontiac Trans -Am  and the terrific Cobra of a friend of mine who lived ten years not far from Hollywood.

Now both us  are came back to Italy but frequently remember our "american period" with some nostalgia and I like to go there again in future.

Ciao America !     

Fabrizio

ace.cafe

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 02:28:34 PM »

Thanks for the interesting thread Sid,

I am not warm about choppers due to its ugly handling but it sems a well done job!  :)

About mounting a turbocharger on a single engine, a 700 cc displacement can make the turbo lag a bit lower but cannot solve the problem of "pulse" .

A supercharger "jointed" to the engine through a properly sized  "air box" could be better.

Some years ago, a tuner called Ivory maked a Yamaha XT 660cc with supercharger which worked realy well, allowing a small batch production of 20 bikes but is quite difficult to find information about its work on the web.

In the old period (about the fifties) the famous italian brand MOTO GUZZI used both a single 250cc ad a V twin 500 cc (similar lay-out to a Ducati engine) coupled to a supercharger.

The 250 scored some landspeed world records and won several races , it demonstraing the good function of supercharged also with a single engine of medium capacity (if fitted with a pressure-chamber between the intake manifold and the blower).

On the opposite, I think the "funny" show-bike with turbo a good object to look but with 40 HP "only" is surely slower as an "atmospheric" tuned Bullet....


A blower Bullet can work well but it need to improve all the internals to resist to the big torque given by  the blowing action.

I hope my English is clear enough... ;)  I know engines (and blowers) but don't use my English language since 2002   :-[ :-[

Cheers
Fabrizio "McDeeb" Di Bella

I've theorized that on an AVL, if a person restored the idler gears back into the timing chest, which were used on the Iron-Barrel model to drive the distributor, that the supercharger could be driven by that, and located under the carburetor area on the AVL.

That would be a drive system that is very close to the carburetor, and gear-driven directly off the crank at half-speed.
Might be a nice place to start.
A small supercharger might fit in there.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 04:35:59 PM »


If we live not so far, my proposal will be probably to make it together!   ;)

I have some supercharger but mostly are a bit too large for a Bullet...one could be useful...mumble mumble

Darth Sid

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 09:08:00 PM »
Pistone, I'm with you on the chopper part. I like the exotic ones for their looks but would probably never ride one for the reason you mentioned.

The discrete pulses of the Bullet's exhaust clearly don't help drive a turbo efficiently but it sure seems like an interesting job.

Won't adding an airbox between a supercharger and the intake cause some condensation of the fuel in the (somewhat) compressed air-fuel mixture?

Ace, now that's a mind stirring idea. One of those that make one go, "Why didn't I think of that?" Whether one actually goes ahead with it is a different matter but the thought wouldn't hurt.
"If it ain't broke to bits, don't fix it!"

1979 Enfield India Bullet 350 "Old Faithful"

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2010, 09:04:25 AM »
I think a Bullet engine could be great for a old school bobber (and we are going to work on it) but consider that kind of bike don't need a so powerful engine, then a big bore conversion with orthodox methods can be enough,..

About the mixture/box , it works to allow a "smoother" function of the supercharged engine also on my ex-Yamaha XS blower unit....also if "smooth" is not the proper word for a supercharged bike  ;D ;D

Some years ago, while testing ithis kit on a old Bonnie on public roads, the bigger trouble was the rear tyre "funny" slippering since I entered the third gear, while a long and dark rubber thread remained on the ground...luckily the clutch destruction helped kill me to stay alive  :-[

About a supercharged Bullet, I think is right also considering the engine age : the blower was tipical of the drag bikes golden age while turbo come in the late seventies and eighties.

I was in contact fro a long time with Tony Brown, son of the famous world recordman George, with his famous Super Nero, based on a Vincent twin coupled with a Shorrock blower, and he gave me lots of suggest about superchargin' on motorcycles.


George took 21 world records on the standing quarter mile  as on the mile land speed while Tony "only" seven titles, also driving his dad's bike after his premature death : he is a real gentleman who doesn't like to speak a lot but his knowledge about blowers is terrific.

He don't like turbos...as me!  ;)

Chhers
Fabrizio

Darth Sid

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2010, 06:44:36 PM »
Why do you prefer the supercharger to the turbo? It uses some energy to operate, doesn't it? I will agree with you that it would more suited to the Bullet than a turbo considering its design.
"If it ain't broke to bits, don't fix it!"

1979 Enfield India Bullet 350 "Old Faithful"

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2010, 10:59:56 PM »


The turbochargers make the temperature too high, it work thanks to the exhaust flow so it work worst due to the tipical "pulse" action in a single engine as the Bullet.

I hope my exposition is clear enough...  :-[

Consider that the best drag bikes use a blower instead of a turbo...

I dont like turbo on two wheels , too.
You can avoid a turbo-lag on cars but on a motorcycle this effect icould be dangerous.

Blowers start to work also at minimal revolutions, while the turbo need high rpm to give a good output.


Darth Sid

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 08:58:49 AM »
I thought you were against turbos in general. I already knew why a long stroke single's exhaust is not suitable for a turbo. However, I didn't consider the safety aspect. That can indeed be very dangerous on a motorcycle.

Also, the workaround to temperature problem of a turbo would make its design quite complex. So, I guess you're right about the supercharger being more suitable to this application. I sure won't help fuel economy, though...

There is a person in India who rebored his 150cc motorcycle to 200cc and installed a roots-type supercharger that he fabricated himself to make it go faster. He claims to have won a drag race against a Yamaha RD350! Further supports your favour of the blower.
"If it ain't broke to bits, don't fix it!"

1979 Enfield India Bullet 350 "Old Faithful"

pistone

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2010, 10:49:40 AM »


I like turbo on cars: I owned three Sierra Cosworth RS2000, one Escort Cosworth Rs, one Fiesta Turbo (a bit dangerous mighty car) and now I drive an Audi A4 1800 Turbo 20Valvles....but for motorcycles you're right: I dont' like turbo so much.

Nevertheless in my workshop now there is an old Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo which I like to drive sometimes...

But blowers are fantastic !   ;D

Gregorin

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2010, 09:39:32 PM »
I think no possibile because single cilinder.

Forced Induction

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Re: is it possible to add Turbo charger to the bullet??
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2011, 11:12:42 PM »
Wow guys. I did not imagine I would find my little project bike mentioned on this forum. Am happy to know there are some more nuts like me who want to sees a supercharged bullet.


Please see the update to the project (which is also 6 months old)


http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/thumpers-two-stroke-exotics/17262-presenting-worlds-first-supercharged-enfield-rr700-prostreet.html

As some people said, turbo does not work for a low revving single cylinder. So I took it off and ran it in naturally aspirated form for a year. In NA form, bike was about 40 bhp but with very high torque as bore has been extended from 94mm to 115mm. Acceleration is amazing.  Bike is 684cc with standard bore of 87mm.

Now, we have put on the supercharger, and have to start testing it. Sadly got no time last summer. Also I bought a new toy (ducati diavel) and got busy with that. Now hope to finish this project this winter if my tuner Ranjit has time - fingers crossed.

By the way, the bike handles very well, much better than the original bullet. Also, is only 11kg more than the new 500classic. With the good brakes and hondafireblade sourced suspension, it's very safe too. The rake is not like typical cruisers, and riding the bike in bad Mumbai traffic is easy.

I hope with the supercharger and 5psi of boost, we will take it to 60bhp, which will make me very happy.

@pistone: thanks for your comments mate. You really seem to know what u r talking about.  If it's ok with u, I shall pm u for advice when we get stuck.

Thanks all for looking and cheers

Vivek
Supercharged 654cc Royal Enfield - 1998
Ducati Diavel Black 2011
Yamaha VMAX 1996

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World first supercharged royal enfield - NOW READY
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2012, 07:20:14 PM »
Alright ladies and gentlemen, the Prostreet 700 is now ready. 684cc of supercharged vintage brit iron...a world first. Took the bike out on a 250km round trip last Sunday morning. Handled and ran really well. I am breaking the engine in so did not push it too much. Still, on the return leg, took it to 125kmph...which the bike did effortlessly.

The bike also won the 1st prize at Rider Mania 2012 held in Jan end at new Delhi. Rider mania is the worlds largest royal enfield festival. Am putting a link to some pics I put up at another forum.

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/thumpers-two-stroke-exotics/21493-rm2012-winner-best-custom-bike-worlds-1st-supercharged-enfield.html


I have ordered a TM36-68 flat slide carb which will make this babe really fly. Will try to do a dyno run once I have the new carb on.

Cheers

Supercharged 654cc Royal Enfield - 1998
Ducati Diavel Black 2011
Yamaha VMAX 1996