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Author Topic: Any Racers Here. Need some Advise & Help  (Read 1374 times)

chinoy

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Any Racers Here. Need some Advise & Help
« on: February 23, 2010, 10:58:12 AM »
We have just finished our last and final day of Pratice for the Hill Climb.
Its a daunting task.
Wake up each morning at 4am.
Ride for two hours to the hill.

Then Patrice and then ride back into town. I would have given up a long time ago. If it wasn't for the enthusiasm of my rider and a few of the club members.

We are out to get at least a Podium finsih at any rate in the Bullet class.

Ive tuned the motor, dialed in my AFRs, Ported the head, Everything else is stock.
We are going to keep even the saree guard and rear seat.

The only area I need help with is
a. What air pressure to run
Reason for confusion all the Petrol Bucks say I should fill 18 PSI in the front. But my owner manual says I should fill 28.
So why the change in air presure. ?
What would be the idea air pressure for a Hill Climb on Tarmac road.

b. Suspension settings.
My gut says they should be on stifest. But a lot of people are telling me I should set it up on softest.

Any inputs on the above two points would be much appricated.


« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 12:52:26 PM by chinoy »

chinoy

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 12:10:08 PM »
This is what the plan is
Front 18 PSI
Rear 28 PSI

Shock 1 from stiffest.
This data is based on going thu the results of various practice sessions.
Id still like to hear from you if you think there is a better setup.

On the track we typically drop the pressure a bit more.
Because the rubber does heat up and the air does expand. but in this case the complete run will be over in under 2 minutes.

ace.cafe

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 02:09:36 PM »
FWIW, here's my idea for it.

Soft tires lose power. They have higher rolling resistance.
The tires will  never heat up sufficiently in 2 minutes to worry about air pressures building up in any real significant way.
As long as the tires aren't breaking traction under acceleration, I'd put them as hard as they can be, and still handle well on the curves. As hard as you can get them and still handle well, is where I'd go with it.

Same thing with the suspension.
The rear suspension springs soak up torque when you give it throttle. You can see it when you watch other bikes. The rear "squats" down when you give it hard throttle.
This slows your exit from corners until the springs unload their compression, and acts as a "time delay" in getting your power to the road when exiting corners.
I'd make it as hard as you can get it, while still giving good handling on corners.

Don't "over-do" it. You don't want to compromise anything else, like handling. You don't want to "wash out" in the corners.
I just think that having rubber and air and springs absorbing your power, when you want to get it to the road, is not productive.
So, make it as hard as you can, while still keeping the best handling for the conditions of the road and the types of corners you are going to encounter..

The Bullet has low power, and you need it all for this. It doesn't have "room" to use up power in other things.  Get the power to the wheel and make it move forward in the most efficient manner.

My 2 cents.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 02:18:12 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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1Blackwolf1

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 02:58:45 PM »
  When I ran hill climbers (750 open class) I ran the tires pretty much at max inflation.  As far as rear shocks I ran those about mid asdjustment.  But I usually ran the widowmaker hillclimb so I was always more over the front for balance.

  On the Pikes Peak hillclimb I ran the rear all the way stiff..but that's more of a road race combined with a hillclimb.  Not really either type of racing exclusively.

  Have someone well you where you concentrate your weight during the run, if you are over the bars stiff is best.  If you ride on the tank mid rear adjustment is good.

  But like Ace said you want the power to the drives immediately..the less flex you can create the better off you'll be.  Make sure you readjust your drive and primary chains prior to the race..lose lots of power and increase chain slap if you don't.   And at least check the drive chain between runs.  A little snug is much better than a little loose.  Don't want to pop a chain in a hillclimb..saw a guy on an Indian do that in trials at widow maker.  Definitely not a pretty sight.

  Will.
Will Morrison
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1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.

chinoy

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 05:41:17 PM »
Ill post some videos latter its late at night and we have the final 4am run to do tommorw.
Thanks for the inputs makes sense.

My rider feedback was. That the front wheel is hopping under hard braking.
So we deduced that this is being caused by to much pressure. The tyre is not able to absorb the bumps. Hence the idea of stiffer suspension and less pressure.

I spoke to my local RE guys. He was stick to what the factory recommends
This time tommorw it should be done.
Just hope my babby doesnt hit the wall. And stays in once piece.
.It a huge even with record number of entries in each class.
So should be fun.
Ill get the videos up as soon as I can.
Ps: The Brake pedal is scraped to a wafer and both the foot pegs are shorter by an inch well mainlly the left cause on the right the brake pedal touches down reall easy and fast. If you move the brake pedal out of the picture. The next thing you will loose will be your exhaust bend pipe.
So the brake lever is more of a protection to your pipe.

 I wanted to install rearsets but finally everybody decided to run it as stock looking as possible with no changes or weight reduction.
Next time we will go the whole hog with rearsets, ECU, CAM, Rockers etc.

This is our first attempt at the hill
If you go to google maps and google Nandhi Hills India you should get a good picture if your interested.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=nandhi+hills+bangalore&ie=UTF8&hq=nandhi+hills&hnear=Bengaluru,+Karnataka,+India&ll=13.369287,77.680228&spn=0.006221,0.011362&t=h&z=17&iwloc=C

motomataya

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 06:00:11 PM »
Sounds very different over there. Hill climbes here are on dirt. If you are running stock shocks you dont have damping adjustments. You cant slow anything down or make it any stiffer, you can only set the sag. On the pavement this should be about 1/3 of travel. If you can slow your shock down and the road is relativly smooth do it. If its choppy you may may want less damping.

chinoy

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 05:32:50 PM »
We won  ;D
Placed first in the bullet class.
this is with everything stock on the bike. i.e. stock saree gurad, foot rests, exhaust,
Only mods where
RDD pigy back ECU
RDD Head Mods and porting

I need to check if we have broken the record for the bullet class up the hill.
We even had a few bullets running Imported dirt bike front ends, rear end frame etc.
time up the hill 1:39 which is faster than quite a few of the chambered RD350s.
My rider got stuck in a false neutral on the last bend and lost a lot of time.
But we where still 5-6 seconds ahead of the closet competition. First outing to an event like this. First place, may be the fasted bullet ever up the hill cant complain. esp considering we ran almost stock.


Just got back in its 11pm dead tired.
my thanks to my rider Rupin Ram who is racing after a 14 year break, and my team and my gurus and all you guys.
And esp. No thanks to RE who couldnt even help us with a single gasket. How I begged to get RE to show some support to their riders like the other factory's do. But I guess they couldn't be bothered. With sales doing so well. I just hope this win gets us some respect and support from the company. Ill settle for a  gasket kit. And will even pay extra for it.

Pics and videos after I get some sleep.
Ps: Oh yeah. Another important milestone. I officially finished my Run in today. 1500 Kms on the clock lol. Bike was awesome. Rider was awesome. Got to touch 4th gear on some stretches and all this with stock gearing and sprocket. And on the stock Nylo Slip Tyres the company supplies the bike with.





ace.cafe

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 05:40:13 PM »
Congratulations, Chinoy!

That's a great way to start out, with a WIN!



Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

1Blackwolf1

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 05:41:05 PM »
  Thats' great!  Using a basic pure stock bike and winning the class, that's very hard to do the first time.  Equal credit to rider and machine.  I think it took me at least a year (and lots of events) to even place in the top 4 of open class, and highest finish was 2nd.

  Sounds like you really had no maintenance issues, but yes sponsor help is always appreciated..I think I got a set of tires from a repair shop, and a set of front springs and seals from another when I was riding.  But I was using a Norton, so there weren't any dealers.
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.

motomataya

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 06:08:19 PM »
Congratulations. Whats next for your race team?

singhg5

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 01:35:30 AM »
We won  ;D
Placed first in the bullet class.
this is with everything stock on the bike. i.e. stock saree gurad, foot rests, exhaust,
Only mods where
RDD pigy back ECU
RDD Head Mods and porting

Ron Ji: 

CONGRATULATIONS !!! Happy to hear your team won.  Looking forward to see the pictures and video of the ride. 

Singhg5. 
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2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

chinoy

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 06:45:31 AM »
Here ya go guys.
The bike my team and some pics from the event.
http://picasaweb.google.com/procastinateru/20100224#
Need to figure out how to do the videos. maybe dump them on my face book page.
Under Rohinton Chinoy.

thanks Singh Ji.
Couldnt have done it without your help esp. for the ECU Pin outs and wiring diagrams. That saved me a lot of time.
thanks to Ace and all the helpful tips  his advise on the suspension was spot on.
you guys have been more supportive than the company.

First thing on the cards figure out how to get some decent rubber.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 09:15:20 AM by chinoy »

jayprashanth

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 11:21:28 AM »

Congrats Ron. Terrific.

 Cheers,

Jay

motomataya

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 01:22:52 PM »
L0ok up dunlop K180 tires These are available in 18 and 19 inch. These are race tires for lower power bikes. In The US they are available through HD dealers if you can get talk to the right parts person who knows about them.

motomataya

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Re: Any Racers Here.
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 01:28:57 PM »
Another place to get them would be A&A racing in california. We get our race tires here when no one else has them.