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Author Topic: Hello There  (Read 2144 times)

hawk89gt

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Hello There
« on: March 31, 2010, 10:31:30 AM »
Hello all, I just entered the realm of Royal Enfield owners by buying a 1959 Indian Chief,  The bike seems complete, and well cared for, but I hope to restore and bring back to original specs and detail the entire bike.

Not only is this my first RE, it's my first bike period!  I've wanted a classic bike for a long time, saw this one and decided it was the bike, and now was the time, so I took a 3200 mile round trip to pick it up in CO, and now it's in it's new home.  Needless to say, I'll have a lot of questions I'm sure. 

As it sits, I was told the motor in it is a 1965 750cc Super Meteor motor, and I also have the original 700 complete which needed some gearbox work.  Numbers are as follows:

original motor #PC 50368 gearbox #AM756  case number-(C163)
motor in bike #YB16673 gearbox #ACD111  case number-(AG72136)

So what do the experts out here think?  Anything (besides the seat and motor) not look correct?  Thoughts, ideas?

I will try to include some photos,  The first is the bike, duh?  The second and third are related to my first question about the bike.

There is oil tube that runs from the lower left side of the case and looks to go into the top of the resevoir.  I assume this is a return?  On the original motor, it is just that simple, goes from block and is attached at the top of the oil resevoir (see picture 2).  On the motor in the bike however (pic 3)  it also has a fitting where it goes into the block with a tube on it that then is just open and hangs off the back of the motor.  My problem is that while trying to start it, a good deal of oil belches out of this tube!  Doesn't seem like an intended result since oil is a pretty important thing to keep in the motor!  Should that tube be there?  Could I put the fitting from the original motor on this one with no tube?  Any idea why the difference?






RGT

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 12:40:33 PM »
That is the crankcase vent tube, if the bike had not been run in a while it may have wet-sumped(crankcase fills part way with oil) try pulling the front drain plug and see how much oil comes out, it should be very little. In a normal situation you should not have oil pushed up and out, depending on if there is a different way for that oil tank to relieve pressure you may want to keep that open tube, or get a duckbill tube and fit it in its place...nice bike.

hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 01:07:37 PM »
Thanks a bunch for the clarification.  I was just browsing through some of the manuals I have since posting the request, and had just about determined that's probably what it was, but I stilll wasn't positive.  I'll leave as-is for right now then.

1Blackwolf1

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 01:53:32 PM »
Wow, nice looking Indian.  Bet that'll draw a crowd wherever you ride it. 
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.

ERC

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 05:53:38 PM »
Nice bike the motor in the bike is a Super Constellation. The breather setup looks like something that somebody added to that motor. I think it should be the same as the original motor.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ERC

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 06:02:13 PM »
I'm wrong the 750 one does have an external breather like that and what RGT said will definitley happen like he says.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Ice

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 06:35:07 PM »
Hi hawk89gt,
 Welcome aboard and congrats ! Nice bike.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

r80rt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 08:12:46 PM »
Yeah, that's a nice bike!
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 09:55:11 PM »
Br. Hawk, I welcome you aboard and congratulate you on the purchase of your beautiful bike!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla

hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 05:24:48 AM »
Thanks all for the comments!  As I said, I am sure I will have MANY questions as I move forward with the project. 

luoma

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 08:41:17 AM »
Beautiful! While reading your post, my mind conjured up an image of a rusty/dusty barn queen, but your first photo had me drooling. Keep us posted as your restoration progresses.

Sandgroper

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2010, 02:57:03 PM »
Looks like a good buy, Hawk. I see that one of the other replies says your YB motor is from a Super Constellation. This was a short-lived US name for them, they are better known as Interceptors, and are a really good motor. There is a Yahoo group dedicated to them which wil give you lots of good advice.

One point, if you haven't already spotted it - the gearbox in the bike is a different type to the original - none of the major 'box or clutch parts are interchangeable. Hitchcock's in the UK are a really good source for parts, and have a good, fast mail order service. No, I don't work there...

csbdr

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 03:44:53 PM »
Ummmmm...restoration?  Looks like someone already did that!  ;D  Hell of a nice bike, congrats!

rotorwrench

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2010, 09:16:03 AM »
Purchasing a bike that is relatively complete saves a lot on hair pulling searches for the unobtainium that are Brockhouse Indian Enfield parts. It's not uncommon to find the older RE Indians with engines from Interceptor or Galaxy models made in the early 60s. The 750cc motors were improved for better durability and reliability that the earlier 700cc models lacked. The Royal Enfield twin motors had several configurations of crankcase breathing that were made and improved on to prevent the dreaded oil puddle that gave them the Royal Oilfield moniker. The early ones just had the duckbill rubber tube that oiled the rear chain. They then developed a dual breather set up with the tube & fitting on the left case breathing through two pensteel discs mounted in the tube housing that aimed again at the rear chain plus the single pensteel disc in a special breather bolt that is attached to the crankshaft and holds the alternator rotor in place. The breather bolt required a different approach in the later configurations since it pressured up the primary chain case so they installed the tube to the rear chain from the top of the primary to the chain and rerouted the upper case breather to the top of the oil reservoir. Later series IA Interceptors even had a large clear plastic tube attaching to the reservoir connection and going back to the rear fender to vent the oil mist completely behind the bike so as not to coat everything with oil.

From all indications you have one of the late Indian Chief models that were made from late 58 through late 1959. Indian sales group was sold to AMC in late 1959 but they kept selling the RE Indian Chief through the 1960 model year and there may even be some Chiefs titled as 1962 models out there somewhere. Due to this short production run, with all the problems associated with a buy out of the importing company, there were never any Chief model specific manuals made up by Indian Sale Corp. You have to find the Trailblazer Manuals to maintain them. The Trailblazer Parts Manual had an addendum for the 1959 models that included listings of parts for the Chief, since the Trailblazer basically went out of production when the Chief came on line. This manual addendum has no illustrations so you have to see examples of original parts or bikes to find out what parts you might be missing.  It looks like your bike has most of the hard to get stuff so you did pretty well in that respect. Most engine and drive train spares can be purchased through Hitchcock's in the UK. Phil at RE-Indian.com in Australia has reproduced a lot of stuff for the Chief models in order to restore his own bikes.

Several RE-Indian type twin owners frequent this site as well as the BritBike site so if you have questions just ask.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 01:32:30 PM by rotorwrench »

hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2010, 07:51:51 PM »
Thanks for the great reply rotorwrench.  I appreciate the time you put into your detailed answer.  I have several manuals for the motor, one is for the meteor or super constillation motor which I believe is the one in there.  As I mentioned, I also have the entire original motor which I hope to put back in eventually.

When I got it home, the battery was low on voltage, and of course I didn't have a 6v charger, since I didn't realize this at first, I kicked my leg off trying to get it started (to no avail).  Well, I got one now and got the battery charged, and got it started with about 3 kicks this evening.  It idled immediately, but I could never apply throttle to it, but I'll work on that, I still need to check the distributor and the carb settings.

Now back to the oil tube coming off the breather connection to the case.  I let it idle for over 4-5 minutes, and it continued to spit out oil the entire time.  I am convinced if I had let it run longer it would have enentually spit out every bit of oil in it!  As it was, it ran out a puddle on my painted floor well over 12" in diameter and was still coming out when I shut it off.  So here's the question, WHAT IS GOING ON?  My limited knowledge of this motor so far would lead me to believe that possibily that the oil pump for returning the oil is not working properly, but at this point it is only a guess.  Does anyone out there know how to check that the oil pump is functioning properly?  Is the fact that it seems to be wet sumping continuously indicate that?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2010, 08:14:44 PM »
Hey there Sandgroper.  Thanks for the great reply.  Since you said that it was an interceptor, I actually remember the guy I bought it from might have said that.  Thanks for the info!

rotorwrench

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 12:50:32 PM »
There might be a couple of things to consider on this problem. First could be the scavenge pump is not properly pumping back to the oil reservoir as you have already considered a possibility. The second is that the scavenge port in the bottom of the crankcase is plugged with sludge or who knows what.

You can check for oil return by looking at the standpipe that is visible in the filler cap opening. You should see oil gushing out the pipe while it's running. If no, you will have to start the process of investigation that will most likely require removal of the timing cover to see if the oil pump spindle is turning with the worm on the end of the crankshaft. If the oil pumps are OK then you will have to clear the crankcase oil sump passage to see if it is open or not. I don't think there is a drain for the bottom of the crankcase but I'm not sure on the later Interceptor motors. I'll have to check

Kerby

PS: Your YB engine number indicates the motor is a 1965 Mark I or series I (whichever you prefer) Interceptor or Galaxy model. The Galaxy or Custom Interceptor model as it is sometimes refered, for USA import market, had a single carburettor and the Interceptor model had the dual carb set up. The PC prefix motor is listed as one manufactured for AMC in 1960. If your bike is titled as a 1959 by the frame number then the motor may have been from another bike. If it is a 60 model, it may be original. Only the Royal Enfield Club in the UK can tell you for sure.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 01:13:49 PM by rotorwrench »

hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2010, 02:17:08 PM »
Wow, thanks for the great information on the motors.  The bike is indeed titled as a 1959 Royal Enfield Indian Chief, so perhaps as you say it isn't the original motor I have after all.  I will followup with the UK club to see what I can find out.  As for tthe YB engine, the seller said it was a 1965 and I actually think he mentioned Interceptor even though the ad said Super Meteor.  It does have the dual carbs on it.

Is there a registry for the motors?  How/where were you able to look up the motor numbers?

Also, thanks for the info on troubleshooting the oil issue.  That will be very helpful.  I'll start looking into that this evening if time permits.


hawk89gt

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2010, 04:31:03 PM »
Well Kerby, you pointed me in the right direction, nothing coming out of the tube under the fill cap at all! 

Next step will as you said, probably involve removing the timing cover.  I may take a look at the 700 first as I have it out and it is fairly close to the same design.  I do not see a drain on the case, so there is not much I can do to drain it out.

Time to hit the manuals, and open it up to see what I got.

Thanks again for the help.

ERC

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »
Let me know your email and I'll send you a copy of the Indian numbers..  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

rotorwrench

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2010, 06:42:14 PM »
You can check Burtons Bike Bits site for some interceptor information. Otherwise you will have to check out a list made by a member of the Royal Enfield Owners Club of North America many years ago. I think ERC has the same dope on engine numbers as I do. Frame number on your steering head will get you more information from the REOC/UK about when your bike was made and what distributor it was originally shipped out to. Most likely Brockhouse if it was a 1959 but may have been AMC.

The late 700cc oiling system is basically the same as the series I and 1A 750 Interceptors so have a good look at the old Chief motor. I have an old series I Interceptor engine case stripped down so if you need help with the passage ways in the case just let me know. Oh! I wouldn't get too worried about having the original engine for the bike if it's not. None of mine have the original engines either. My 1958 Trailblazer has a 1959 Apache motor.

Kerby
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 06:52:33 PM by rotorwrench »

Gregorin

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Re: Hello There
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 01:12:50 AM »
Ufff... ,it's old machine and I think you must bee cool to get this bike to good condition. But is very nice bike.   ;)