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Author Topic: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?  (Read 811 times)

chinoy

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How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« on: April 25, 2010, 11:16:50 AM »
Has anybody run into this problem on their UCE.
You kick and you dont get any compression.

The problem relates to the Hydralic lifter either getting stuck in the fully compresed position or fully out.
Its basiclly converted into a solid lifter for what ever reason.

The only way I could figure to get the bike to start on advise from somebody at RE was to loosen the rocker block bolts. The advise was loosen up the rocker block it will start.
Then try runing the bike for 10-15 minutes and retighten the rocker bolts.

Im not sure this is the best way to free up a stuck lifter.
The only other option I have is to replace the lifter which is not easy from what I have heard.



SSR

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 03:43:06 AM »
Not experienced so far neither ever heard of stuck lifter on a UCE unless the pin which locks the lifters in place has moved(highly unlikely). How did you managed to do that anyway;) 6K rpm +?

One way to do it, you have already mentioned.

Have you checked its not the auto-decomp stuck to open on compression stroke? Just remove the rocker cover and use the kick to see which one is stuck or any valve not closing properly.

Other way to do it is by removing the RH side chamber and then remove the ex cam by carefully putting a bolt underneath the H lifter so the rod does not gets out of place at the rocker end, inspect the de-comp and fit it again.

To replace a lifter means ripping apart the whole of the engine to access the pin which locks the lifters in place.

If you need the manual, PM your address and I'll post it to you.

chinoy

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 05:56:02 AM »
The intake valve is the one not closing.
This is apparent by the flames shooting out the TB.

It would seem like this is a regular problem because the minute I mentioned it to my guy at RE he had a ready solution to it. (Im just not very confident about riding around with a loose rocker box. though)

Yes Im probably to blame. We where testing max lift the engine can take.
Such tests as with pushing the limits of any engine come with a price to pay.
I believe in doing the R&D on my own bike. So no worries there.

That pin cant be very solid though because we where cranking the engine over by hand with a small spanner so the minute the valve touched the piston we could feel it.

Anyway making good progresses so far.
Got some imported epoxy and testing different velocity and flow & swirl ideas.

thanks for the manual.




Vince

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 04:21:06 PM »
     It sounds like a bent VALVE. Before going any farther I would pull the rocker assembly off to allow the valve to fully retract. Now find TDC at compression and perform a leak down test to see if the valve is leaking past the seat. If so you have a larger repair. I have had lifters leak down, then take a while to pump up. I have not seen a lifter stick in the full up position in any engine.

SSR

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 04:23:14 PM »
Me too got a prompt reply from RE when I asked about the stuck lifter with the same answer although they had not heard of a stuck lifter till now.

I think my second idea is a no go. Thought about it later and I feel that can make the lifter even harder so only way is by loosening up the rocker plate bolts. Just don't loosen up too much, a wee bit should be ok I think. But yeah, no one would like to run around with loose rocker bolts.

Pin is anyway on the exhaust cam and as you have already mentioned the flames from TB so that confirms the inlet valve. So nothing to do with the auto-decomp. Is it possible that you might have a bent valve?


Are you on stage two/three, working on the head flow?

No problems Guru Ji, will post the manual in a day or so.


chinoy

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 08:55:22 AM »
Well this is obvioully a problem they are well aware off.And the solution they have given does work.

At first even I thought it was a bent valve.
So I placed an order for new valves.
About 200 phones calls and 50 sms latter and wiating for 3 weeks I still havent senn the spares.
Then again spares I was suposed to get when I took delivery of the bike still havent shown up.
If I speak to the RE guys they say its dispatched and with the dealer and if I speak to the dealer he says I dont know anything.

(My front mudguard and fork tube cover)

So in frustration I opened up the head. And no the valve was not bent.
There was a tiny tiny mark like somebody had presed their nail against the piston.

Anyway I pressure tested the valves and found them to be leaking ever so slowlly.
So I  laped both the valves and put it all together.

The first thing I noticed was that there was  a huge gap between the push rod and the lifter.

So kicked and cranked it till the bat went dead. It finally poped into place and the gap vanished.
But the bike would still not start till I loosend the rocker bolts.
Just like RE told me.
Ive done 100 Kms with the loose rockers and plan to tigheten them down and see if the problem has gone.
If it has not. Then I plan to file the lifter knob a wee bit and tighten down.

On the mods front
We sent the rockers for a CMM readings.
As per the CMM report rocker ratio is over 1:1.25 which is strange cause my measurements directlly on the engine give me more like 1.16

on the head I have now reduced the comp a bit by unshrouding the valves. This means I can now run pump gas. Power is down a bit but being able to run pump gas is more important to me.

On the flow we have been testing with epoxy.
i.e. adding epoxy to the short side and increasing the velocity as well as giving the port a swirl effect like the early GSxR and Honda Heads had.

So far port stuffing has not resulted in any gains anywhere.

chinoy

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 11:39:06 AM »
got a call 5 minutes ago saying that the new valves have arrived.
Will pick them up and see if they help in any way.

SSR

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 05:44:04 PM »
Thats good news, at least you got it started. Hopefully it should be alright.

Thats strange how the cam measurements are different, Could they be measuring at different points?

You are putting a lot of effort in for the head and not getting much out of it, may it's telling you to start tweaking something else. Probably there are more gains from rockers and cams to be had rather then the rest.

Whats going on with the fueling system, planning for standalone ECU or something else has already been done?

chinoy

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 09:31:23 AM »
the valves suplied are the wrong sie.
they dont even look like the orignal part.
then again most of the parts i have been picking up look nothing like the orignal part. its like new bikes get parts from one vendor and spares are from another vendor.

or the vendor has changed and for the worse.
the vales are so bad you can see the cutter marks on them.

I think i have a handle on whats going on with the engine.
and i also see why a lot of people are going to have the same problem.

as the valve seats. the valve height goes up.
so our rods are not adjustable your shafted the only fix is to shave the valve tip down or the rocker.

work on the head well we go as much as we could with the first go. stufing is not helping neither is swirl. neither is de-shrouding.

Work on rockers is in progress locally.
Work on cam is going on engine simulator. the stock cam is crap.
so its going to be very easy to come up with something better.
how much better depends on how many hundreds of man hours your willing to put into it.

Next we will be testing the new rockers.
the new cam will take time.
on the efi front ive not had time to data log the pulsar signal. thats where it has to start.


jayprashanth

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Re: How to deal with a sticky lifter ?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 03:13:53 PM »
Nice to hear so much good work going on Ron. all the best. Looking forward to see the first 100 mph UCE from your side.

Cheers,

Jay