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Author Topic: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?  (Read 2410 times)

Ducati Scotty

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Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« on: May 07, 2010, 03:38:01 AM »
I currently have a Ducati Monster 800.  It's a great bike but it's best when ridden with a little spirit, and I tend to ride with a little more spirit than is recommended on public roads.  Lazy cruises in the country are just not fun at all, it's not what the bike was made for.  I want to slow down a little and enjoy the ride.

I've always liked the REs since they were brought to the States.  The local Ducati dealership has one in and is thinking about selling them.  I saw the C5 there and it is just way cool!  I really like minimalist bikes and both the C5 and G5 fit the bill.

Reading a bit about the new UCE bikes has me encouraged.  They seem to be put together a little better, and with fuel injection and hydraulic valves what's not to like?  Ok, not hearing your valves ticking away and not having to adjust them is a little weird.  I grew up with air cooled VWs and I do all my own work on the Ducati.  I'm used to adjusting valves.

I don't mind doing regular maintenance, I actually really enjoy it.  As I said, I do all my own work on the Ducati and that's more than most bikes.  Finicky Italian machines.  I've done most of the work on all the vehicles I've owned, cars and bikes.

Before I bought the Ducati I looked at a 250 Scooter and a water cooled 250 cruiser.  Both had enough power for me but I just can't get used to sitting on a scooter with no tank between my knees.  The 250 cruiser was really nice for what it was but the steering geometry suffered for the raked out aesthetics, under 10mph the thing just falls into corners in a most unsettling manner.

So, I'm thinking of selling the Ducati next season and getting an Enfield.  The Enfield would be my only bike.  I use my bike for commuting daily whenever the weather allows; rain yes, snow no.  Right now that's 8 miles each way and not much over 50mph.  I tend to change jobs though and could end up with some freeway time.  I live near Portland, OR so 60-65 as a top cruising speed would be fine with me and it looks like the new bikes can do that.  People don't go too fast around here.  Also, I have a new son who's only a few months old.  In a few years when he's old enough I'd like to hook up a Cozy or Inder sidecar so the whole family can share in the moto adventures.

So what do you all think?  Do you think I'd like the Enfield?  Anything I'm trying to do that's a really bad idea?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Scott

hocko

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 05:05:20 AM »
DS hi,

I'm in Australia and brought a G5 last year, prior to that I was riding a Suzuki SV650 S for a few years, very similar bike to the Ducati monster, handling and power wise. I use mine to commute and the occasional run on the highway south. The little buggers seduce you !!, I've had no problems with the transition , after the run in period that is, that gets a bit hard to swallow at first, the more K's I put on the bike, the better it seems to go, 110 kph cruising is not a problem and up to 400km to a tank of fuel is pretty darn good, the Suzuki was looking for a fuel stop every 200 km's or so. Go for it mate, I don't think you'll regret it.

Cheers  ;)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 06:15:31 AM »
Yes, the SV and the Monster are close cousins.  I think the SV is a bit better in some respects: ridiculously stiff frame, more power from water cooled engine.  That's a great comparison.  Thanks!

I love that I get so much of my moto information from Austrailia.  Brad Black is a GURU of all things Ducati. http://www.bikeboy.org/  He has helped me out many times.

Scott

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 11:35:26 AM »
I rode my Bonneville faster than I should have all the tlme, I love the slower pace of the C5. Riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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ScooterBob

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 11:56:12 AM »
Paraphrasing Colin Chapman - "It's a lot more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow ...."
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

UncleErnie

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 01:21:37 PM »
Actually, you might look at an AVL with a front drum brake.  I found myself almost re-learning how to ride;  slowing down a lot and really thinking about where I'm braking, really watching a line happen and looking through turns- very educational.

BUT- I still have my W650.  Occasionally, it's nice to have some real tug, wind the engine out and get it on the pipe, drone on the freeway, etc.
Run what ya brung

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 02:58:39 PM »
I'd definitely consider an older model as a second bike, but when I have two bikes one tends to collect dust :(  Same with surf boards, kitchen knives, whatever.  Maybe it's because I'm constantly tinkering and can never leave well enough alone.

Scott

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 10:19:53 PM »
Hey Hocko, what's the wind like at 110kph?  Do you have or wish you had a windscreen?

Scott

hocko

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 01:47:31 AM »
Hey Hocko, what's the wind like at 110kph?  Do you have or wish you had a windscreen?

Scott

It's definately on the to do list, quite a bit of buffetting wind wise, wasn't used to it on the other bikes with the small fairings, I get a payout next month, so screen and a decent set of saddle bags

Cheers  ;)

boggy

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2010, 03:23:42 PM »
Ducati Scotty,
Your commute sounds just like mine.  I have an AVL and the power and speed is great for what I need.  My only issues are a few finicky gremlins that come with AVL's and the fact that it is a second hand bike.  I think the new engine will be perfect for what you need.  The AVL is great, but I could use a tad more reliability since it's a commuter.

Someone else here said it best, "Instead of 80 feeling like 40...." as I'm sure it does on your Monster, "40 feels like 80."  Often I take a peak at my speedo when I think I'm pushing the road's limit and then laugh when I'm actually riding lawfully.  They have a lot of personality at low speed. 

Also, if you liked tinkering with your Duc, you will certainly love this simple little set up.  Should be a breeze in comparison.

When I first got my AVL I wanted to test its limits and a few freeway rides were ok, but the top end power at 65+ mph wasn't super-duper.  I could get enough to get around someone, but that is where it will fall short of your Duc.  The rest of the ride though?... You'll never be bored on a backroad. 

Get ready the attention.  You think people like looking at Monsters.  Keep reading posts here.  I "spied" on these guys for a year before I finally pulled the trigger.  Creepy?  Yes.  But lots and lots of smart folks here that have been through it all.

Good luck.
Boggy
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2010, 03:35:27 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.  Yeah, it sounds like a bike that would suit me.  I think I'm trying to recreate the experience of my first moped: simple and fun thumper.  But with the ability to go on the highway if I need to ;)  I'm sure it will get attention, I've only seen one it town here, a military.

Right now I'm talking the wife into going to the shop today.  We're going to be in that part of town shopping later today.

Scott

UncleErnie

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2010, 03:51:18 PM »
Hey Boggy-

"My only issues are a few finicky gremlins that come with AVL's and the fact that it is a second hand bike.  I think the new engine will be perfect for what you need.  The AVL is great, but I could use a tad more reliability since it's a commuter."

Like what?

Run what ya brung

ace.cafe

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 04:02:25 PM »
As a former owner of mulitple Ducatis, as well as Laverda and Benelli, and former "Italo-phile", I'd say that it is not a "replacement' as much as it is an "alternative".

They are much different rides.
The main one being that the focus with the Enfield is on the ride along the way, and not so much in the "getting there", if that makes any sense.
With an Enfield, you don't "fly past" everything at high speed, so you get to notice and process what's around you during the ride. You get a different perspective.
It's not "hurried" and you have a very different experience from a ride like this.

IMO, in the modern world of motorcycling, there's too much emphasis on "rapid transit", and not enough emphasis on enjoying the ride. We don't get our biking kicks like an amusement park roller-coaster thrill ride. That's fine for what it is, but we have something different.

 Plus, there's nothing like the "thump" and feel of a single.
I spent almost all my motorcycling life on bigger Italian twins and multi-cylinder bikes. It took me a long time before I ever even tried a single, and it was a Bullet.
I never knew what I had been missing.
Now I don't even want any more twins or multis. I'm addicted to singles.
And I can tell you that I notice a very distinct similarity of riding feel between my Bullet and my old 750 Ducati Sport bevel-twin. They both pull hard with good torque and feel solid and controlled. It's that good. It's just that the Bullet has a bit less overall power and speed, but the "feel" is similar.

I think you'll like it.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 04:05:30 PM by ace.cafe »
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 04:51:55 PM »
Yup, singles and twins are torquey and raw and I like that too.  Don't know if I'll ever even look at 4 cylinder bikes again.

You've definitely made a point, it is a different experience.  That's part of what I'm looking for.  When I say 'replace' it's just that I only want one bike.  Though I'd like to pretend otherwise I don't really have enough time and space to keep two.

Scott

ace.cafe

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2010, 05:34:37 PM »
I think that the UCE bridges the gap pretty well between the modern biking needs and the old school retro style.
More so than any of the earlier Bullet models in stock form.

I hot-rodded my old Bullet, because i wanted a bit more "ooomph" than the old stock Bullets had. They are pretty slow in stock form, but they do better with some low-cost mods that most of us here have done. Some people go further than others.

But the UCE has more power in stock form than the older Bullets did.  So it's more lively,  just the way it comes out of the showroom. And the manufacturing precision in the unit engine is very modern now. There are still some little cosmetic issues and some things might still loosen-up or fall off somewhere from vibration, but it's a pretty solid bike as it comes.


Most users seem to like them fine.
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UncleErnie

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2010, 10:46:39 PM »
While pulling a little red wagon piled high with repect for Mr Cafe, I must demur just a bit.  My experience is that riding an Italian bike focuses the riders attention on the bike and riding style.  It's not they Italian bike riders are in a hurry- they just like to ride fast.
Run what ya brung

ScooterBob

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2010, 11:35:34 PM »
While pulling a little red wagon piled high with repect for Mr Cafe, I must demur just a bit.  My experience is that riding an Italian bike focuses the riders attention on the bike and riding style.  It's not they Italian bike riders are in a hurry- they just like to ride fast.

Yeah - My Ducati focuses MY attention on just how freekin' wadded up I am on it - and how if I ride FASTER, I'll get home SOONER so I can ride the Enfield again and let my neck, back and my wrists heal ..... Hahahaha!! It's a super fast, great handler and sounds like thunder on the throttle and ALL the good things that you'd like about a bike - but I ride the Enfield most often because it IS all the good things that a motorcycle needs to be - with "Practical" being at the top of the list. It's kinda dumb trying to haul a few groceries on the Ducati - it seems like the thing to do with the Enfield. Yeah - I know - "Old and REsponsible" - that's ME!! Hahaha!!   ::)
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

UncleErnie

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2010, 12:04:24 AM »
I would never hurt your feelings by thinking you're responsible.
Run what ya brung

ScooterBob

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2010, 02:27:48 AM »
Heeheehee! - I appreciate that! - Most of the time I try NOT to be .... It's just too .... too ..... responsible!!   ::)
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2010, 03:08:22 AM »
Went to the RE/Ural dealer down in Salem, OR today with the wife and baby, Raceway services.  He has a half dozen or so REs in stock, some older model years.  There's a beautiful white iron barrel he's looking to move, said he'd make me a really good deal on it.  He had some that had both an O2 sensor and a kick start.  What's that?  I thought the O2 was only on the UCE engines with no kick start.  Did I see some optical illusion?

Nice fellow who runs the shop.  We had a nice chat.  My wife liked the forest green Electra or G5 that he had there.  He didn't have a C5 there but gave us a brochure that had pictures of the turquoise one.  The wife really liked that.

Then she started tallying up exactly how much I planned to spend on the bike and sidecar and how much I would get for my Ducati Monster when I sell it.  It was a good day.  I'm really glad she likes the C5, it's my favorite too.

Yeah, I do spend a lot of my attention on my riding technique on the Ducati.  It's throaty and sexy and the most fun street bike I've ever owned.  I think the Enfield is where I want to be though.  Dead simple, very minimalist, and would let me enjoy the scenery a little more.

Scott

ace.cafe

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2010, 01:14:21 PM »
While pulling a little red wagon piled high with repect for Mr Cafe, I must demur just a bit.  My experience is that riding an Italian bike focuses the riders attention on the bike and riding style.  It's not they Italian bike riders are in a hurry- they just like to ride fast.

Yes it's true.
I loved my Italian bikes. Especially the early 1970s 750 bevel-twins. They truly are a "rider's bike" and if I hadn't sold both of mine for peanuts years ago like a brain-dead idiot, I'd still have them. I'd buy another one if I could afford a vintage one now.

But I always rode mine fast, and I never really "smelled the roses" about the enjoyment of lower-speed riding until I got the Bullet.


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PhilJ

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2010, 01:41:45 PM »
Yup, me too, only on Beemers. Seemed I was always going at least 80+. I rode my Bullet over the same roads that I done for years on the Beemer and saw things that I never new was there.  :-\

luoma

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2010, 01:30:28 AM »
I love my bullet too, but I wish I could find a larger bike with the same viceral feel as my RE, only a bit more capable on bigger roads. I was thinking of a BSA A65, but worry about rleiability. After reading this thread, maybe I'll look for a Ducati. My favorite Duc was the old 250 unit single from late 60s to early 70s, damn good looking motor.

Eamon

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2010, 03:11:52 AM »
The only bike bigger than a Bullet that I'm thinking about anymore is the new Ural sT.
http://imz-ural.com/solo.aspl

I especially love the desert tan and olive versions.  $6799 base price beats anything but a Bullet too.  This bike would satisfy all my needs for a freeway capable bike that looks great and is also capable off of paved roads.

Still, I think a C5 with some K70's and a rear luggage rack would satisfy the same thing for me.  Of course I already have a Bullet that I love.  I should probably have a sidecar rig if I get another bike.  That way my dog can come too!

Eamon
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2010, 04:40:50 AM »
The Solo is cool but it's even bigger than what I have now.  I want something smaller.  Anyone else have trouble getting their feet into the Ural controls?

Scott

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2010, 11:32:16 AM »
The Solo is cool but it's even bigger than what I have now.  I want something smaller.  Anyone else have trouble getting their feet into the Ural controls?

Scott
It seems awkward at first, as does the heel-toe shifter, but after 2 days they seem natural.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2010, 03:36:50 PM »
That's true, it is a heel toe.  I'm just used to that being optional on the bikes I've seen, not mandatory because of space.  Still bigger bike than I like.  And a Ural just looks funny without a leading link front end ;)

Scott

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 10:33:27 PM »
D.S.
 Personally I would steer you towards the UCE mill or maybe a AVL lump.
 
They have the roller bearing bottom ends, steel con rods and better oil pumps.
They will handle without complaint the RPM's and heat that will kill and Iron Barrel in short order.

 Of all the bikes I've owned, my Bullet is the best balanced design of the lot.
It is the most versatile bike I have ever owned.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2010, 12:40:55 AM »
Yes, I'm definitely looking at the UCE bikes as my first choice.  I have to say the old engines are prettier but I like fuel injection, high mileage, more power, clean emmisions.  Still wavering between C5 and G5,wifey likes the C5 in Turquoise :)  

My only concern is that I'm used to doing all my own maintenance and so far I've seen no mention anywhere of a way to tap into the ECU on those bikes.  On my Ducati I have software that lets me get in to set a few things when I do a tune up and also read error codes.  Since the UCE bike has an O2 sensor there's probably not much, if anything, you need to do but there might be something like a TPS reset or MAP/MAF sensor calibration that's needed occasionally.  Or read error codes when the magic light comes on.  I'd hate if I had to go to the dealer every time I needed something like that.  I need to find an e-mail address for Pete Snidal and see if he's going to address this in his upcoming UCE manual.

For the Ducati the software tool cost me $240 with the adapter.  I just saw on my Ducati board that $800-1000 is considered common for a major service.  One service.  I've done 2 of those already.  I could never afford to own that bike if I had to take it to the shop.  And I really like getting greasy anyway :)

Scott
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 12:43:13 AM by Ducati Scotty »

Ice

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 02:52:55 AM »
 Our own forum brother Chinoy is deeply involved in and a pioneer of the world of UCE tuning.

You might PM him for advice..
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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singhg5

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2010, 05:06:08 AM »
...... .....     ....   My only concern is that I'm used to doing all my own maintenance and so far I've seen no mention anywhere of a way to tap into the ECU on those bikes.  On my Ducati I have software that lets me get in to set a few things when I do a tune up and also read error codes.   

  Since the UCE bike has an O2 sensor there's probably not much, if anything, you need to do but there might be something like a TPS reset or MAP/MAF sensor calibration that's needed occasionally.  Or read error codes when the magic light comes on.  I'd hate if I had to go to the dealer every time I needed something like that.       ............
Scott

Hello Scott:

1. Error codes list has been posted on this forum earlier and is also listed in the Service Manual for EFI that is available separately from CMW at an additional cost.

 Malfunction Indication Lamp - MIL Error Code Blinks

Engine will start but not perform to its potential. MIL will glow continuous
LONG 0 SHORT 6 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 0 SHORT 9 ManifoldAbsolute Pressure (MAP) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 1 Engine oil Temperature (TE) circuit malfunctioning
LONG 1 SHORT 7 O2 Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 5 O2 Sensor heater circuit malfunctioning

Engine will NOT Start but will crank. MIL will glow continuousLONG 1 SHORT 5 Rollover Sensor circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 3 Injector circuit malfunctioning
LONG 3 SHORT 7 Ignition Coil circuit malfunctioning
LONG 4 SHORT 1 Fuel Pump circuit malfunctioning
LONG 6 SHORT 6 Crankshaft position circuit malfunctioning
Testing Procedure using the Test pin in the vehicle


2.  TPS is easy to adjust from the throttle body - there is a large brass screw that provides variable resistance depending upon the position of the throttle. 

3.  MAP calibration ! Don' think so far any bike has needed re-calibration.  If something goes wrong with any part, just replace that part.  C5 and G5 have been on the market for over a year now in US and UK.  Even though there have been some bumps but overall it seems to be doing quite well.  I have over 6000 miles on my G5 and others have betwen 3000 to 6000 miles - Touch wood !

4. If you want to change other parameters of ECU, then you will need to change a lot of engine parts too.  Because the factory mapping of ECU is pretty well done to the limits of the rest of the engine. 

1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2010, 05:49:36 AM »
MAP and MAF sensors usually don't need calibration, but I wasn't sure.  A screw for the TPS!  How nice and easy to adjust :)  The last generation of Ducatis had a screw for idle mixture and you set the TPS with an ohm meter.  The newer ones need a computer hookup for both.  This is thought to be done to keep people from messing with the ECU and making the bike run richer than EPA/ECU wants.  The older the ECU the more you can do.  The oldest were very easy to remap.  The newest with O2 sensors, you couldn't really do anything until recently.  There are now a few devices to fake out the ECU to run a little richer and a few people who have hacked it for remapping and sometime removing the O2 sensor and running it open loop.  

Still, you need to reset the TPS for every tune up.  You'd think they could add a button or something.

I should mention that I'm not interested in changing the map or anything along those lines, just looking to be able to do my own regular maintenance.  Is there any way to connect a standard ODB computer or another device to the ECU on the RE?  I'm too impatient to count blinks of the light :)  Also, how can you clear error codes when you see them?

Thanks for the info,
Scott
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 01:42:49 PM by Ducati Scotty »

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Replace my Ducati with a Bullet?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2010, 08:29:13 PM »