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Author Topic: Starter Issues?...  (Read 1639 times)

rnewton75

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Starter Issues?...
« on: June 05, 2010, 05:17:16 PM »
Hi all,
A while back in November I had the Starter Relay go out (the circuit was just stuck closed) on my 2009 G5.  I finally got a chance to get it to the shop, it was covered under warranty, and I picked it up today.  When I picked it up, I was told that my battery was dead and needed to be replaced.  Since my company purchases batteries wholesale I declined the offer for the dealer to install a new one.  I hit the starter and the relay clicked, the dealer told me that the battery only had 3-4volts.  I kick started the bike and rode home (about 40 miles).  When I got home I tried the starter thinking that I had charged the battery a little on the way home.  Nothing.  The relay clicked in the same way.  I then checked the hot wire going to the starter and there is no voltage there at all when you hit the starter button and hear the relay complete the circuit.  When you put a meter on the battery itself it reads 12.25v  When the relay closes there is no current passed between the studs on the relay either.  Does this sound right to you?

Also, the relay is totally different than the factory one (see the photo below) could it be the wrong one? 

Also, is the Exide battery in the photo the stock battery for this bike?  I don't remember what my factory battery looked like (which was fine when I took it in) but I remember there wasn't a name on it that I had ever heard of...

Does any of this make sense to any one?

I also spent $220 at the same time on a new chain (only 9 months old), should that have been covered under warranty?  If the battery in indeed bad should that be covered under the warranty too?

I REALLY like my dealer, I would just like a second opinion here.

still LOVE the bike,
Thanks.

r80rt

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2010, 05:51:56 PM »
The battery in the picture is exactly like the battery in my C5 if that helps.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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rnewton75

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2010, 05:59:53 PM »
Thanks r80rt,

For some reason I was thinking the battery had a black top cap.  I must have been thinking about another bike.

I would never imagine my dealer would intentially switch out battries.  I trust them completely.  They just have many bikes in their shop and I could easily see the wrong battery being grabbed off the bench.

Thanks for the response.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 06:58:02 PM by rnewton75 »

singhg5

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2010, 07:19:43 PM »
Hello RNewton:

RE G5 does come with Exide battery that is in your picture.  But I have changed the battery to Yuasa YTX14 AHL BS 12 volts because Yuasa is sealed battery and better for starting.

First check that the battery fluids are within the Max and Min levels.  If low add deionised or distilled water.  Then CHARGE your battery FULLY by an electric Tender charger for a few hours.  Its voltage would read approximately 12.4 volts after its is fully charged.  Then try it again in your bike.  If it does not start, you may need to go back to dealer and show you why electric start does not work with fully charged battery. 

I have posted a picture of my G5 - battery and starter relay.  It is hard to tell if your starter relay is correct type. 

1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

rnewton75

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2010, 07:43:59 PM »
Thanks Singhg5,

The relay in your photo is the same one I had on mine.  It was round and held in place by that rubber strap.  Could the problem be that my battery even at 12+volts doesn't have the amperage to close the relay circuit?  Especially since it's a different relay?

Thanks again.

singhg5

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2010, 07:56:35 PM »
Thanks Singhg5,

The relay in your photo is the same one I had on mine.  It was round and held in place by that rubber strap.  Could the problem be that my battery even at 12+volts doesn't have the amperage to close the relay circuit?  Especially since it's a different relay?

Thanks again.

Its quite possible that your battery does not have enough juice right now.  I had Exide battery too and it needed more care and charging than Yuasa that I have now.  Batteries lose charge in a few days, if not charged.  And running for an hour or so (40 miles) may not be enough.  By eliminating one by one you will be able to nail the root cause of the problem.
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2010, 11:38:33 AM »
I have just "aquired" a similar problem.
On a longish run the last weakend I was giving my G5 a little bit of stick.(after about 50 miles). For some idiot reason, I then stalled the bike at a junction, but on trying to start the bike on the elec. starter, there was nothing there, apart from some "chatering", which I assumed was from the relay. I started the bike with the kicker.
Now I was thinking that, because I was hammering the bike, that the extra vibrations that I hav'nt really had before had loosend up some of those pesky connectioms, that seem to be always comming adrift on these machines.
 My battery and relay appear to be same as your ones.I hav'nt had the time as yet to sort out my problem, but I have no reason to think that the battery is "caput" -but it will be checked,as will all the other connections/relays etc.

john hut

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2010, 10:04:09 AM »
I have a similar problem with my 2009 Electra Deluxe (C5)
   I returned it to my dealers who diagnosed afaulty starter  solenoid
and has put an order in for one under warranty.
I,m still waiting after about two months.
  the bike had only done 1200 miles.
   What happens with the Classics (G5) with no kick start ??
               John Hut
John Electra Deluxe Efi

Chris-G5

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 11:59:03 AM »
I have a similar problem with my 2009 Electra Deluxe (C5)
   I returned it to my dealers who diagnosed afaulty starter  solenoid
and has put an order in for one under warranty.
I,m still waiting after about two months.
  the bike had only done 1200 miles.
   What happens with the Classics (G5) with no kick start ??
               John Hut
You got the C5 and G5/E5 mixed up.  :)

REAZ

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2010, 12:32:41 PM »
I'm still waiting after about two months.
John, there is a solution which would eliminate further downtime. Most Chinese scooters use the same starter solenoid which can be used as an emergency replacement part on your bike. I ran into the same problem and I had to put the bike back on the road in 24 hours, so waiting for parts was not an option. I went into the closest scooter shop and got a $15 solenoid which worked perfect. This is how it looks:

If you want something more robust and reliable, you can install an aftermarket starter solenoid. Marine engine parts are designed to deal with harsh environment, so they should perform better in the long run than the scooter solenoid.
The installation requires a bit more involvement but it is really not a big deal. I have retrofitted multiple bikes with marine engine solenoids.

You can find more pictures and instructions at www.motorcyclesalesdirect.com/RE_installation
It is good to ride
REAZ

john hut

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2010, 02:25:51 PM »
Thanks Chris  .Too many drinks at lunch time .got my C,s & G,s mixed up.Ill stick to Electra,s and classic,s

  Thanks REAS,   sounds like a simple enough solution,
  Got intouch with dealer again and he says he has the part in
just got to find time to take it in,,,No problem kicking over
and still using the bike.
John Electra Deluxe Efi

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2010, 08:51:08 AM »
Just had a check thro of my G5, and confirmed that, yes, it is the starter relay/solenoid that is chattering. Spoke to WS they are going to put one in the post for me, ASAP. They will be charging it to me but will refund/credit me the cost on return of the faulty one.(still under warranty) They are now supplying a Japanese version.

Its quicker for me to do it this way than to take the bike to my dealer and wait for them to look at it and order the part etc. I would have to pay them the labour cost!! Its only 2 nuts and one push on connecter. Simple.

They did tell me there have been one or two issues with this relay.

clubman

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 03:29:56 PM »
Hi Marrtyn,

May I ask the cost of the Japanese relay?

Thanks.  :)

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2010, 03:27:24 AM »
Hi Clubman
From WS direct to me total cost was 29.32.(this includes VAT at 4.37) No delivery cost.
Ordered late Wed., recieved Thurs. morning. Good service.
They also sent me a Warranty Clain form, to enable me to recieve credit for the cost.
Not sure as yet if I will be able to claim it though as I did not have my 2000 mls. service carried out by a dealer. Did it myself. But even if I cant, it still proberbly works out cheaper than paying for labour charge's that I would have to pay for said srvice.
Regards
M

UncleErnie

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2010, 08:14:13 AM »
"wear items" like batteries, chains, tires, etc are never covered by warranties.
If I were you, however, I would look into what I'm doing wrong that I needed a new chain after only 9 months. 
Unless you put a LOT of miles on in that time... ?
Run what ya brung

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 06:50:35 AM »
Just spent half an hour fitting the newly supplied starter relay/solenoid, YIPEE I thought as I lent over the bike to start it up,--and then GROAN. Still the same "chattering from this new relay/solenoid. So spent couple of hours searching out all those connectors etc to see if any had come adrift. Not a thing. So its back to the drawing board, with this problem for me.
I have checked with a volt meter as far as I am able (not electrically orientated), for circuits. What I do find strange is that I have a circuit across the 2 connectors on the starter relay, just with the ignition on. I would have thought  I would only have a circuit when the starter switch is depressed.
Any ideas any one,. Would be pleased to hear of any suggestions.Thanks.

Chris-G5

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2010, 08:19:37 AM »
.
I have checked with a volt meter as far as I am able (not electrically orientated), for circuits. What I do find strange is that I have a circuit across the 2 connectors on the starter relay, just with the ignition on. I would have thought  I would only have a circuit when the starter switch is depressed.
Any ideas any one,. Would be pleased to hear of any suggestions.Thanks.

Checked using volts? You will read voltage across an open switch and when the switch closes you will no longer read voltage, at least in AC not sure on DC. I'm no electrical expert either  ;D  When the switch is open one meter lead is on the incoming hot and the other is on the neutral on AC and ground on DC that is coming through the load. When the switch closes both leads are on the hot so no voltage is read.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 08:24:56 AM by Chris-G5 »

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 09:41:10 AM »
Thanks for your responce,Chris-G5, not sure what all this means but I may have got the "jist" of it!
M

Chris-G5

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2010, 05:26:42 PM »
Thanks for your responce,Chris-G5, not sure what all this means but I may have got the "jist" of it!
M

Those two connectors on the solenoid are a switch. They are normally open (no circuit between them). You read voltage across them when they are open because your reading the hot from the battery and the ground coming through the starter (load). If you put your meter on the connectors and press the start button and watch the meter, the voltage will go from 12 +/- volts to 0 volts while the button is pressed. This is because when the switch is closed the hot from the battery is passed to the starter, so both meter leads (on each connector) are on the hot which will not give any voltage.

This is one way you check if any switch is good. When the switch is open (off) you should read voltage across the switch. When the switch is closed (on), no voltage should be read. The load also has to have a complete circuit for this to work.

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2010, 11:29:44 AM »
Thanks Chris-G5, got it,--(are you a phisics teacher for the "thick").
Regards

Marrtyn

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Re: Starter Issues?...
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2010, 09:54:03 AM »
Have just proved to myself (after a suggestion from my lovely dealer) that I have  had a duff battery along. Having tried various things, I connected my battery to my car battery, and hey presto it turned the engine over.
I did earlier connect a meter across the terminals and it showed 12.5 volts, but it obviously (now) not sufficient amps. ( not bad for a battery of 14 mths old)