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Author Topic: Slipping out of gear false neutral question  (Read 2802 times)

AHS

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Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« on: June 08, 2010, 07:23:07 PM »
Search results didn't answer my questions...

I just got my Electra EFI (G5) bike back from the 500km break-in check and am a little confused.  When I turned it in, I told them that 3 or 4 times, the bike popped out of 3d and 4th gear when I roll off and then back on the throttle and that downshifting results in false neutrals kind of often.  I went to pick up the bike today and the mechanic said he couldn't duplicate falling out of gear but did experience the downshift false neutrals, said it wasn't normal.  The dealer then called the importer's master mechanic who said it's not normal but might be remedied with a few hundred more kilometers of break-in.  If I said no, they said they would do some kind of internal gearbox grinding or milling to fix it but that no new parts are required; basically sounded like accelerating the break-in with hand tools!  I'm new to this bike but my experience with this dealer has been mixed, so I'm not sure what to make of it.  On the 60km trip home, I got a three or so false neutrals and a testy neutral light.  Is it possible for these issues to go away with more break-in?  Any similar issues out there with the UCE?  I have like 20 months left on the guarantee so I don't suspect any foul play here...thanks!
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PhilJ

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 10:01:20 PM »
At this point I'd just let it be, see if it will break in. If it doesn't change for the better get with your dealer before your warranty expires. Hand work on the transmission when they don't know what is wrong? Not for me. It shouldn't that. they all, mostly, break in over time.

r80rt

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 10:19:30 PM »
I had a few false neutrals the first thousand miles or so, no big deal and they went away. :)
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REAZ

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 11:23:34 PM »
It is absolutely normal that you can find yourself between two gears (false neutral) if you don't give a positive push or pull to the shifter. Also, if you don't move the pedal to the end of its travel when shifting - particularly when up shifting - it might slip out of gear, since the dog is not fully engaged. You don't need to be hard on the shifter, just move it all the way up or down when you are shifting.
You can get the feel of this phenomenon easily: Sit on the bike with the engine off, in neutral. Pull the clutch in and the shifter up to second gear. You might need to rock the bike a bit back and forth in order to implement the shift. Let the clutch out and try to move the bike forward or backwards, to make sure that you are in gear. If you are, you'd not be able to roll it more then a few inches. Now, pull the clutch in again and as you keep rocking the bike ever so slightly, start pulling the shifter up as gently as you can, applying force gradually. Here comes the tricky part. You might want to do it with your hand rather than your foot. It is easier to modulate the force this way. When you feel that the shifter moves up - kind of slipping out of gear - STOP right there. Don't pull it all the way up! Clutch out, and see the miracle. If you turn the ignition on, the neutral light will be off, but you'd be able to roll the bike freely. Congratulations, you implemented the task properly and the bike is in false N. This is exactly what happens on the road if you are not moving the shifter positively. There is nothing wrong. This is the nature of this gearbox. Over time, as the gearbox breaks in, the whole shifter mechanism moves around easier and as you also get a better feel of handling, the chances of finding yourself between gears gets slimmer. It does not change the fact however, that if you stop moving the shifter between two gears, you’d be in false neutral.
There is no need for filing, grinding or panicking. Be patient and implement the shifting with a gentle but positive pedal movement. That’s it.
You’ll be impressed by the huge improvement you’ll experience over the first two thousand miles as you proceed with the break in. Shifter gets smoother, bike runs better, quieter, suspension improves, etc. The key again, be patient and gentle. Enjoy the ride!
It is good to ride
REAZ

r80rt

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2010, 11:33:00 PM »
Yep!
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Marrtyn

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 02:00:15 PM »
I found as time went along there were less and less false neutrals,(done about 2250 mls.), particularly early on into a ride, The strang thing is after about 4/5 hrs. in the saddle and when I'm tired I seem to get more false neutrals etc.
So to me this is sloppy riding due to tiredness!!

AHS

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 03:48:04 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, just what I'm looking for (common experiences, good advice)!  Reaz- I'll do what you suggested, get more in tune with the gear box, it's definitely a different animal than I'm used to!  ...Regardless, I'm still going to name her "Voodoo"  ;)   
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Vince

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 04:42:28 PM »
      Most likely it really does just need more break in. A lot of issues are a matter of learning to shift that particular bike. A lot of my customers that have come off Japanese and other new bikes have trouble  shifting until they acclimate. You can also ask your dealer to check torque on the front sprocket. The shaft is located in position by the nut. If loose (even a little) the transmission may not shift properly.

Ragmas

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 10:42:40 PM »
I just broke 1000 miles on my G%.  I was getting false Neutrals for a while.  I decided to shift at a different RPM than I had been.  I was getting falses down shifting when coming off the parkway.  I was too high in the RPMs and for whatever reason it would shoot past the gear I was going for.  I have since slowed down alittle more using engine and brakes and shifted when it felt easy.  Have not had a problm in a little while.  I also switched to a heel toe shifter having been spoiled by my last bike, a Dnepr that also had a semi-auto transmission.  I tend not to shift with my heel and toe on at the same time though, I use either the heel, or the toe.

Blah blah blah.  two cents for you.

Sam
2009 G-5 Military
Little Falls, NY

Chris-G5

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2010, 02:47:40 AM »
I just broke 1000 miles on my G%.  I was getting false Neutrals for a while.  I decided to shift at a different RPM than I had been.  I was getting falses down shifting when coming off the parkway.  I was too high in the RPMs and for whatever reason it would shoot past the gear I was going for.  I have since slowed down alittle more using engine and brakes and shifted when it felt easy.  Have not had a problm in a little while.  I also switched to a heel toe shifter having been spoiled by my last bike, a Dnepr that also had a semi-auto transmission.  I tend not to shift with my heel and toe on at the same time though, I use either the heel, or the toe.

Blah blah blah.  two cents for you.

Sam
Where did you get the heel/toe shifter ?

Ice

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 06:09:01 AM »
...Regardless, I'm still going to name her "Voodoo"  ;)   

 Cool name and it came about so early on in the ownership.
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Ragmas

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 11:02:40 AM »
Where did you get the heel/toe shifter ?

I got it from one of the indian parts dealers on Ebay.  I somehow got two though, so if you want one, pm me.

that is the end of my pirating this thread.

Sam
2009 G-5 Military
Little Falls, NY

AHS

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 08:03:44 PM »
What's a pirate's favorite letter?!  I wouldn't dare ;D
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veep

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 09:44:17 AM »
Similar issue with mine, too.  Usually wants to miss 4th on the upshift, but intermittently.  I have discovered that if I disengage the clutch and apply light downward pressure on the shifter I'll get 4th.  A complete depress sends it back to 3rd. It was a bit unnerving at first, but now that I know the "trick" I can deal with it.

On no occasion has she come out of any gear, accel or decel.

As of this post I'm only at 170 miles so I'm not going to worry yet.

TIA,
veep
2010 C5 Military

singhg5

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Re: Slipping out of gear false neutral question
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 03:37:23 PM »
Similar issue with mine, too.  Usually wants to miss 4th on the upshift, but intermittently.       I have discovered that if I disengage the clutch and apply light downward pressure on the shifter I'll get 4th.  A complete depress sends it back to 3rd.            It was a bit unnerving at first, but now that I know the "trick" I can deal with it.

TIA,
veep

You have a sharp observation and found a way to shift gears on your new bike.  It works !  I have also done the same - occasionally.  It will get better as you put more miles on bike and keep changing oil.

BTW, What is TIA ?  Transient Ischemic Attack ?   ;D
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