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Author Topic: Service manual for the G5/C5  (Read 3595 times)

Ragmas

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Service manual for the G5/C5
« on: June 09, 2010, 10:46:49 PM »
Is there one?

Sam
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t120rbullet

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 10:47:26 PM »
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Chris-G5

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 02:37:50 AM »
I wouldn't waste my money on it. It's pretty bad, especially for the price. IMO

Here is a parts manual for the G5

http://www.star-team.es/downloads/ElectraEFIPartsCatalogueEuropeJan09.pdf

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 03:18:57 PM »
http://www.enfield.20m.com/uce1.htm

Doesn't cover everything and says that.  Still, probably a very good book to have around.

Scott

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 05:23:13 PM »
The Snidel one is half the price as the factory and looks to have about the same info. in it.

r80rt

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 05:40:38 PM »
I just ordered Snidals manual, thanks for the link.
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 06:52:45 PM »
Chris, does the factory manual have details on tune up and specifically on anything that needs to be done to adjust the fuel injection?  I looked through the index on Pete's manual and didn't see anything there.  I'm curious about that stuff as my Ducati takes some special tools and knowledge to set up.

Sam, I forgot to mention that Pete's pre-UCE manual is highly regarded both for the routine stuff and the tips and tricks needed to keep the older models running in top shape.  His UCE version has been long awaited.

Scott

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 11:30:08 PM »
Chris, does the factory manual have details on tune up and specifically on anything that needs to be done to adjust the fuel injection? 

Scott

No, not that I can find. Here is the index for the factory "Service Manual"

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 03:42:14 AM »
Looks like there might be something about what I want to know in section 4 (Inlet manifold & Throttle body), section 6 (Identification of malfunction in EMS), section 9 (TPS unit), and section10 (Special tools).  Thanks very much for posting that, very informative.  Where did you get your factory manual and how much did it cost?

Scott

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 08:02:23 AM »
Looks like there might be something about what I want to know in section 4 (Inlet manifold & Throttle body), section 6 (Identification of malfunction in EMS), section 9 (TPS unit), and section10 (Special tools).  Thanks very much for posting that, very informative.  Where did you get your factory manual and how much did it cost?

Scott
CMW part #597451 $70 maybe $80, can't find invoice.

Here are the sections you mentioned, TPS is not listed in section 6 checking the electrical components even though it says it is in the index., see TPS absent pic.
Section 10 is just troubleshooting. "Special Tools" along with "Caution", and "Notes" are footnotes found at the end of some procedures.

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 05:09:17 PM »
Do you have a specific question about the injection system? It is so simple that we can probably answer it right here. There is a description and some specifications of pages 06-6 and 06-7 in the factory manual. There is no maintenance to be done to the TPS. It is set at a certain angle at the factory and that is where it stays. It is essentially a potentiometer and it controls the amount of air flowing into the engine in response to throttle opening. It can be adjusted by using the screw that looks like and idle adjuster. DON'T touch it. How your engine runs is determined by the interplay between the computer, this sensor and all of the other senors. Adjusting it incorrectly  will lead to nothing good.
  It can be adjusted by using a plug in diagnostic box or with a voltmeter, It it goes bad you will get an indication from the Engine Malfunction light. You can then follow the procedure in the book to diagnose which part of the system is malfunctioning. The most common reason for a light to come in is a loose connection.
  I would also like to remind everyone that Petes books as well as the factory manuals are all available at www.nfiendgear.com or from your dealer.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 06:11:33 PM »
I think you just answered most of my questions, or at least got me on the right track.  I know how to adjust TPS with a voltmeter.  Earlier Ducatis have this setup, newer ones require a computer hookup.  So you don't need to check/reset it on the RE as part of a regular tune up?  I'm used to this being something that's very important to have the bike run just right so it gets reset as part of every regular service.

I'm basically concerned with what needs to be done at regular services on the new UCE, especially regarding the fuel injection system.  I like doing all my own work for many reasons, one of which is I don't want to pay someone hundreds of dollars for what I can do myself for free in an hour with the right tools.  Regular service on aDucati can $500-1000 dollars.  I do mine for the cost of parts and a Saturday afternoon.  Also, I'm just one of those people who has to know how things work and I'm rarely willing to "leave it to the experts".  I like being independent.

Mostly I'm curious about idle speed, TPS reset, MAP sensor, things like that.  It looks like the fuel injection system is fairly simple on the RE.  Just wondering mostly do I need special tools to do my own services and if I need or want a computer hookup, what is available?

Thanks,
Scott
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 06:24:32 PM by Ducati Scotty »

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 07:26:45 PM »
You do not need ANY special tools to  diagnose or service the EFI system. It has a self diagnostic mode built in for owners just like you. If you can't stand it and want a computer the module is $2,500. They are NOT going like hotcakes. A volt/ohm meter and a fuel pressure gauge are about all you would ever need. The idle speed is set by the "brain". There is not regular service required for this system other than to replace the spark plug one in a while.

Our cost of ownership is very low and the maintenance required on the UCE engines is very minimal.

Remember your Duck is a high performance multi-cylinder engineering marvel. Such engines require careful feeding and maintenance. We are the polar opposite with very low emission numbers and low maintenance. LOL

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2010, 08:19:44 PM »
Thanks Kevin.  I wasn't sure if it set the idle speed itself.  Some EFIs do, some don't.  When they set their own idle and have an O2 sensor there's generally not much anyone needs to do.

I really love my Duc, best motorcycle I've ever owned and the one I love riding the most.  I just feel it's time to try something new.  I have to say, I am a little disappointed that the UCE has hydraulic lifters.  British singles should tick when running.  Otherwise how do you know it's working right?  :P  Also adjusting valves is one of the first real mechanical skills I learned.  After spending a few years adjusting the Ducati Desmodromic system I was looking forward to something that took a screwderiver, wrench, and 5 minutes to set right.  Plus anything that reminds me of my air cooled VW days is always good.  Guess I'll have to use that extra time for tightening spokes or something.

I have no plans to buy a $2500 computer for the bike, thanks.  Isn't that about half of MSRP?  If it was a few hundred I would but that's more than I want to spend and it seems it's really unnecessary with what's already built into the bike.

So now I just need the economy to turn around so my wife can get a job again and we'll have money for a new bike.  Of course the longer I wait the less the Ducati is worth and the less reason there is to trade it in or sell it.  By next year I'll just be adding a new bike to the garage instead of trading the one I have :)

Thanks very much to all for the answers and sorry for the thread jack.

Scott

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2010, 08:36:25 PM »
""I am a little disappointed that the UCE has hydraulic lifters.  British singles should tick when running.  Otherwise how do you know it's working right? ""

Don't worry  -  it ticks regardless........    ;)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 08:40:29 PM by WillW »
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Chris-G5

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2010, 09:38:01 PM »
It is essentially a potentiometer and it controls the amount of air flowing into the engine in response to throttle opening.
Quote


TPS controls the amount of air?

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2010, 09:44:01 PM »
""I am a little disappointed that the UCE has hydraulic lifters.  British singles should tick when running.  Otherwise how do you know it's working right? ""

Don't worry  -  it ticks regardless........    ;)

Will - This will go away in about 1500 miles - or with the use of 10W oils. The "tick" in the new engine is the tight, tight, TIGHT lifters only pumping down after the rest of the valve-train slaps the crap out of them. After they get a little looser, they are DEAD quiet .... almost like there are no parts in it at all. It's an interesting phenomenon on that engine in part due to the India boys building them TIGHT - like they used to - but with new metallurgy, so it takes longer to wear in.
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2010, 09:44:51 PM »
""I am a little disappointed that the UCE has hydraulic lifters.  British singles should tick when running.  Otherwise how do you know it's working right? ""

Don't worry  -  it ticks regardless........    ;)
Yeah, it does but just in the right way ;)
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2010, 09:47:39 PM »
It is essentially a potentiometer and it controls the amount of air flowing into the engine in response to throttle opening.
Quote


TPS controls the amount of air?

U-u-u-u-h, no ...... The Throttle Position Sensor indicates the degree of throttle opening to the processor by varying the monitor voltage.
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 10:16:16 PM »
oops, typing too fast. I stand corrected.

Chris-G5

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2010, 12:52:28 AM »
U-u-u-u-h, no ...... The Throttle Position Sensor indicates the degree of throttle opening to the processor by varying the monitor voltage.

Exactly, just wanted Kevin to correct his mistake. ;D

Chris-G5

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2010, 12:52:54 AM »
oops, typing too fast. I stand corrected.
;D

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2010, 03:19:24 AM »
Mistakes?  Meh.  I knew where you were going.

Another funny thing on the hydraulic lifters...

The Honda Nighthawk has them too.  The bike requires almost no maintenance, runs as smooth as a sewing machine, and will run forever if you just change the oil.  It's the most soulless machine I've ever ridden.  Great for reliability but just nothing to draw you in.  The REs are just the opposite, getting more reliable and lower maintenance all the time but still loads of character.  As the local dealer described the update UCE bike, "They updated everything they should have and left the rest alone."

Scott

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2010, 04:13:23 AM »
I think you just answered most of my questions, or at least got me on the right track. I know how to adjust TPS with a voltmeter. ...... Earlier Ducatis have this setup

Scott:

Can you elaborate in step-wise detail how you adjust TPS by a voltmeter ?  Don,t just suggest to Google it   ;)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 04:42:17 AM by singhg5 »
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2010, 07:18:08 AM »
Will - This will go away in about 1500 miles - or with the use of 10W oils. The "tick" in the new engine is the tight, tight, TIGHT lifters only pumping down after the rest of the valve-train slaps the crap out of them. After they get a little looser, they are DEAD quiet .... almost like there are no parts in it at all. It's an interesting phenomenon on that engine in part due to the India boys building them TIGHT - like they used to - but with new metallurgy, so it takes longer to wear in.

Well I clocked 3002 miles last night just as I pulled into the home lane. And yes the ticking is now much quieter. But is it getting generally noisier? Probably not, just differently perceived. Of course now that all my attention isn't taken up with just staying out of hospital (40 years without a bike remember...) I'm more aware of all the other engine sounds, but I don't hear anything worrying. Oh, and I'm using Silkolene 15-50. It was in the bike when new so I carry on with it.
3000 miles in eleven weeks  -  keep an eye on that rear view mirror Singh  -  I think I'm catching up with you......   :D
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2010, 02:04:18 PM »
On older Ducatis, you close the throttle, measure the voltage at the TPS, rotate it to get the prescribed voltage for your model, and then tighten the set screws.  The computer is set up to know that X volts means throttle closed.  I'm guessing the RE is something similar.

Scott


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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2010, 03:33:35 PM »
Do you have a specific question about the injection system? It is so simple that we can probably answer it right here. There is a description and some specifications of pages 06-6 and 06-7 in the factory manual. There is no maintenance to be done to the TPS.

Here are two pictures of Throttle Body Module -

The first is from the Left Side of Motorcycle

Second is from Right Side of Motorcycle.

Which Sensor is TPS and Which is MAP sensor ?

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ScooterBob

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2010, 04:06:50 PM »
Mistakes?  Meh.  I knew where you were going.

Another funny thing on the hydraulic lifters...

The Honda Nighthawk has them too.  The bike requires almost no maintenance, runs as smooth as a sewing machine, and will run forever if you just change the oil.  It's the most soulless machine I've ever ridden.  Great for reliability but just nothing to draw you in.  The REs are just the opposite, getting more reliable and lower maintenance all the time but still loads of character.  As the local dealer described the update UCE bike, "They updated everything they should have and left the rest alone."

Scott

The RE still has a "soul" because of all the fellows who still basically HAND BUILD them. Honda's are nice, as you say - but putting 2800 of them together in a day with the "perfect" robotics negates any real character. I've had my hands on more of these machines than probably anyone else in the country - and it amazes me with the little tiny differences that you find from bike to bike - even with consecutive chassis numbers! You can definitely see the human touch on every one - and I like that. The fellows that put these bikes together do so with a LOT of pride - some of them are second (and probably third!) generation Factory workers, so they KNOW what makes the bikes "tick" (literally! Hahaha!) The dealer was right - ALL the  stuff that makes an Enfield, an Enfield was left alone - and all the stuff that made them a bit trying from time to time was improved .... Brilliant! This is why we love them!
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r80rt

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2010, 04:45:48 PM »
AMEN! Tell it brother Bob, tell it, tell it! :D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 05:10:46 PM by r80rt »
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clubman

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2010, 07:20:19 PM »
Well I clocked 3002 miles last night just as I pulled into the home lane. And yes the ticking is now much quieter. But is it getting generally noisier? Probably not, just differently perceived. Of course now that all my attention isn't taken up with just staying out of hospital (40 years without a bike remember...) I'm more aware of all the other engine sounds, but I don't hear anything worrying. Oh, and I'm using Silkolene 15-50. It was in the bike when new so I carry on with it.
3000 miles in eleven weeks  -  keep an eye on that rear view mirror Singh  -  I think I'm catching up with you......   :D

I got mine at the end of November 09 and thought I'd be a sunny Sunday afternoon rider, thus insuring it for 3000m a year. Now it's at 2,800 after 6 months and I have changed the insurance to 6,000 pa. But 3,000 in 11 weeks, wow, that's impressive. The moral of the story for both us is clearly that this bike is more fun that we could ever have imagined. Btw, mine still ticks as well.

WillW

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2010, 07:58:33 PM »
You're dead right there Clubman - I knew it would be fun, but turns out to be totally addictive. That said, things seem to be settling down a bit now, after the, uh, honeymoon, and having a motorbike is becoming just a part of life, rather than full-on-got-to-get-out-on-the-bike at every opportunity. And thank goodness! Everything has been neglected in favour of riding the bike these last weeks, and I HAVE to now spend some time doing the day to day mundane stuff before everything collapses around me... :o

But before I get back into all that dull stuff  -  just time for a quick thud around the lanes before dark I think...... ;)
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clubman

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2010, 08:34:39 PM »
Yes, I went through that got to take every opportunity phase too but since it coincided with the coldest winter for 20 years the miles still didn't build up that quickly. Now it's summer and while it has become a fact of life I'm also getting some good long rides in. And enjoying them enormously. I shall be down in the west country - your area I think - next weekend for the Exmoor bash at Brendon. My first motorcycle rally for 15 years! You're lucky to have those lanes on hand every day as they are surely the bikes natural habitat. Mind you I love 70mph sweepers on a good A road too. In fact - though I don't commute on mine and don't want to - I'd say there's nothing this bike is unsuited to. 

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2010, 09:06:07 PM »
Is that a Royal Enfield rally at Brendon?
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2010, 12:49:13 AM »
Well I clocked 3002 miles last night just as I pulled into the home lane....

3000 miles in eleven weeks  -  keep an eye on that rear view mirror Singh  -  I think I'm catching up with you......   :D

You want me to keep an eye on that Rear View Mirror ?   I expect you to be coming head on, straight in Front of me driving on LEFT side of the road and zipping past me like a BULLET at 90 mph  ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2010, 06:57:40 AM »
Many years ago on my first driving trip to Europe, after a very early start from a French campsite, my girlfriend and I bowled happily along on the left hand side of the road for a good twenty minutes before the first other vehicle of the day, a truck, awoke us to my error :o . Luckily on a straight stretch with plenty of leeway, but a good deal of Gallic gesticulation and abuse from the trucker ensued  - all his worst opinions of ze idiot ross biff eatairs confirmed.... ::)

90mph? C'mon Singh - we can manage 120 between us can't we..?   ;)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:03:48 AM by WillW »
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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2010, 07:05:34 AM »
HOORAY  -  upgraded to BULLETEER!  ;D

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clubman

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2010, 08:02:56 AM »
HOORAY  -  upgraded to BULLETEER!  ;D

Congrats on that!  :) Not an RE rally at Brendon; quite an assortment from Honda's to MZ's. I expect to be the only Enfield but who knows? Event is at Millslade House. We shall arrive about noon on Thursday and leave Sunday so feel free to look in.

WillW

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Re: Service manual for the G5/C5
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2010, 08:51:38 AM »
Thanks for the info. A run up to Exmoor is very tempting I must say, but depends really on workload and weather of course.
My neighbour just told me today is the great Plymouth Megaride - I'm right on the route so may go and tag on for a while as they go past.
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