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Author Topic: 19" wheel conversion for C5  (Read 5916 times)

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #135 on: July 30, 2010, 03:34:16 AM »
Boy ain't that the truth.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #136 on: July 30, 2010, 04:23:59 AM »
Yea a fork brace is gonna be tough on this bike in it's stock form. But doable with some cutting of the fender in the area of the lower leg. But I'll be pissed if it don't work after cutting that nice fender. It will have to be a big arch shaped, clamp on design, above the fender. It's the whole location thing of where the shroud is,the lower leg down below the top of the fender,with very little clearance between the lower leg and the fender. And how is something like that going to look on a bike like the C-5? :-\

It is now time for a vote, do I pursue a fork brace or stabilizer? ???
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #137 on: July 30, 2010, 05:04:30 AM »
How about something like this? But extended down further to the lower fender mounts? Maybe a cross brace at the top of the arches? done in 1/2" bar? If done right, it could almost look like a fender stay. Whats the math on something like that look like scotty?
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #138 on: July 30, 2010, 05:17:33 AM »
It is now time for a vote, do I pursue a fork brace or stabilizer? ???

Hell no.  Too ugly.  Why ride a C5 at that point?

If you're really curious just take the fender off and put one on and see if it works. 

Scott

qgolden

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #139 on: July 30, 2010, 12:20:27 PM »
Take the fender off
Make a brace
Install Brace
Ride like hell
If it works figure out how to build around the fender.
Any other Enfields in New England?

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #140 on: July 30, 2010, 02:07:37 PM »
Whats the math on something like that look like scotty?

The further down the forks it mounts the less rigid it gets.  It also gets heavier, leading to higher unsprung weight for your front wheel and lower suspension performance.

Q's got the right idea.  See if it works first without the fender.  Then you can see if the ugly actually provides any benefit.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #141 on: July 30, 2010, 05:29:15 PM »
OK ,OK all very logical.I must think. Patience boys. where to invest my time efficiently,with best chance of positive results? I can remove the fender, mock up a Quinn brace and test her out, if it works great.BUT, the finished product will have to be a large double "u" shape design like in the pic. So it won't be a true apples for apples test. Or for less work, maybe, a damper of stabilizer?
Decisions, decisions. Oh Geez :-\

Scooterbob,some input please.you know these front ends better then most.They seem pretty short and stiff to me.
Dan.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 05:33:54 PM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #142 on: July 30, 2010, 06:30:47 PM »
If it works, you could design a final version with just the back side brace.  The font and rear model can be minimal, the back side only final model would need to be beefier to attain the same rigidity.  

Build a quick and dirty fenderless model to see if you're even on the right trail.  If you are, you can assess from there what a final version should be.  Otherwise, maybe it's time to look at steering stabilizers.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/hydraulic-steering-stabilizer/p2006037.jcwx?skuId=233889&TID=8014524FT4&zmam=15972153&zmas=21&zmac=141&zmap=882542

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #143 on: July 30, 2010, 10:37:59 PM »
Scotty, would a hydralic type damper, like the one in your pic, perform it's function correctly, if it was mounted from the front down tube, up through and in between the forks. In a straight position, inline with the bike, on an angle up, between the fender and the vented regulator housing? Ya know what I mean?
 What I'm thinking of is mounting the damper to the frame with a 38mm damper clamp on one side.Then the other side would be mounted to a riggedly made steel "V" shaped mount. The "v"  shaped mount would attach at the top of the "V" to the blinker studs on the lower tree. At the base of the "V" I would make a threaded mount for the other end of the damper.This would be the side with the aduster. It would stick out a bit between the legs, but frick it,form must follow function. Really no other practical place to mount one.
What do you think?
Dan.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2010, 11:34:28 PM »
Don't have an RE to look at but...

In general they mount two ways:
1) parallel to the center line of the bike in a near horizontal orientation mounting one end to a brace on the fork leg or the bottom triple
http://www.ducatimonster.org/featured/2004nov/stu_engine_detail.jpg

or

2) perpendicular to the line of the bike right behind the steering head.  You need a fixed mounting point to the frame and another on the triple clamps.
http://www.desmoworks.com/images/KIT140-bitubo-696-3.jpg

Type 'monster steering damper' into google images.  The one I sent you a pic of may be too big but I grew up on air cooled VWs, know them well, and they cost only $30.  The other ones I pictured here are in the $300-500 range.  Ducati bling costs money. ;)

I like application 1 because you've got more space to work with.  You don't need a tiny, purpose built one.  It would be great if you could tuck it under the tank (semi-hidden) and mount to the frame tube and lower triple but I don't know if you'd have the space AND it would live right over the hot cylinder head.  Probably not ideal.

Mounting to the triple or upper fork leg is best.  You can mount to the lower fork leg a la sidecar but then it moves when the suspension moves, not ideal.

Scott
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 11:36:39 PM by Ducati Scotty »

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #145 on: July 31, 2010, 12:49:00 AM »
Yea,opion one is along the lines of what I was thinking.No access under the tank or the upper leg wthout cutting the shroud. No real surface area at or under the lower tree.Thats why I was thinking of extending down a mount off the blinker studs.The only frame member available is the front down tube.
 Th old V-dub damper is a good idea, but I'll probably need a universal damper with a double pivot, and the ability to adjust damping force.Dennis kirk sells them,be about 2 bills for damper and clamp. Question is what size damper, what size stroke? Gotta do some figure'in.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #146 on: July 31, 2010, 04:11:01 AM »
Stroke you can measure, just look at where you're mounting it and wiggle the bars, see what you need.

But wait...

Stopped by the dealer and he's been stewing ever since I was there last about this wiggly feeling the C5 has.  He made a really good observation.  The engine is a stressed member of the frame.  At the front it's bolted with two heavy plates but just one large bolt that holds it to the downtube.  At the rear it bolts to a subframe.  That subframe bolts to the engine at the bottom and then the engine and the forward subframe at the top through two rather thing gauge plates.  The swingarm bolts to the rear subframe.  The top tube is a single tube affair.  So single downtube, single top tube,  Flexy at best.  No cradle tubes under the engine since that is the engine in this case.  Then the rear subframe is bolted to the front main frame, the engine, and the swingarm.  Put all that felxy metal, thin gauge rear engine mounting plates, two subframes that bolt together, and all the bolt points hold the entire thing together...

No wonder it flexes! 

So two ideas.
1) A reinforcing bar that goes from the top rear engine mount to the large front downtube bolt.  One or two but even one should really stifffen it up.
or...
2) A reinforcing cage that goes from the two lower rear engine mounts under the engine to the large front bolt on the downtube.  Could look like or be integrate into a skid plate.

Either way you're significantly stiffening the frame.  idea 1 would be fairly easy to cobble together and install on the non oil fill side.  Option 2 a little more involved.  I think the root problem is a wiggly front end from thin fork tubes, wimpy triples, and short trail but a flexy frame like that just amplifies it once you get a little oscillation going. 

Got to thank Justin for thinking of all this.  Thoughts?

Oh and took a long, fast spin on the same C5 but now with almost 1000 miles instead of 700.  Totally different engine!  Revs more freely, shudders less when it gets to its limit, smoother, all around different and better.  We started talking and I think I'll be taking this bike home tomorrow.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #147 on: July 31, 2010, 06:10:22 AM »
Yup, I see it. GOOD JOB!!, give Justin my regards.Ya Know, I just ordered the fricken damper and clamp :'( It's cool though,I'll put it to good use.Got it from a place on your side of the continent. Speed Moto there called, in Eugene OR. Think you could run over tomarrow with the new C-5 and pick it up for me? :D
 Now into the nitty-gritty. Your option one is at the engine mount behind the starter,correct? And you would run the bar in the area between the engine side covers and the base of the cylinder head,right?
 Op ion two I Iike, but maybe both could be incorporated with less work then the cage alone. Instead of a cage design below the engine,attached at the lower rear engine mount. Perhaps,like on top,bars could be ran from the side stand bolt mounts,just ahead of were the lower rear engine mounts are.
 Take a look tomarrow,only after you spend a long enjoyable day on you new ride.
 Good luck and enjoy!!!
Dan.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #148 on: July 31, 2010, 03:42:48 PM »
Yeah, needs pics to get the point.  I'll try to put some up in the next few days.

And don't worry, steering stabilizers look cool and I want to have something cooler than the current options when I get around to mounting a sidecar.

SpeedyMoto, good cats.  Lots of people I know buying their goodies for Monsters.

Scott

SSR

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Re: 19" wheel conversion for C5
« Reply #149 on: July 31, 2010, 04:15:36 PM »
@Ducati- I am loving your 2nd idea. You just put words to my thoughts.  ;D