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Author Topic: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?  (Read 5614 times)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2010, 08:46:33 PM »
That's what I was thinking, groove the bushing, drill and tap it for the greas fitting, drill a hole to fit it, and have the bushing and grease fitting screw together and 'sandwich' the steel of the swingarm.

On a less intensive path, couldn't you just make urethane bushing instead of bronze?  Gotta be easier to shape and less play but not none, doesn't transmit all the stress to the swingarm.  Of course, they need to be lubed too or they stick and squeak.  Rubber is more forgiving.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2010, 09:16:10 PM »
That's what I was thinking, groove the bushing, drill and tap it for the greas fitting, drill a hole to fit it, and have the bushing and grease fitting screw together and 'sandwich' the steel of the swingarm.

On a less intensive path, couldn't you just make urethane bushing instead of bronze?  Gotta be easier to shape and less play but not none, doesn't transmit all the stress to the swingarm.  Of course, they need to be lubed too or they stick and squeak.  Rubber is more forgiving.

Scott

   Some very good ideas Scotty.  Urethane bushings though? Tell me more.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2010, 09:56:22 PM »
Lots of things in autos and motos are linked with rubber bushings: shock mounts, sway bar mounts, engine mounts, shift linkages.  This is generally done to provide a certain amount of flex and isolate vibration to the driver & passengers.  It also adds a certain amount of slop which may be good for comfort but bad for performance.  In high performance and race vehicles these rubber bits are often replaced with urethane, the stuff skateboard wheels are made of.  It has some flex but much less than rubber.  This tightens things up for better performance and is great BUT while rubber can work while dry some urethane things need to be greased regularly to work.

Some things are fine without grease.  For instance, a sway bar mount doesn't need to move much it's just a flexible connection.  No worries on grease.  Something like a swingarm bushing, that's moving.  It will need grease to keep doing so.  Which means you'd need to disassemble and lube regularly or get a fitting connected.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2010, 03:47:41 AM »
Thanks Scotty, I'm gonna do some more research on Urethane to see if there's any bushings available . According to the service manual , the bushings in the c5 are plastic, not rubber, I would imagine plastic would be a harder material then urethane,no? Well it's all speculation until I pull out the swing arm and see what I got. I'll let you know.
Thanks, Dan. 
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2010, 06:30:58 AM »
Yup, less flex than rubber and may not need regular lubrication.

Scott

Ice

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2010, 10:33:00 AM »
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 10:37:23 AM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

ace.cafe

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2010, 11:43:27 AM »
My estimation would be that if they are plastic, they are already something like polyurethane, and I doubt that any real improvement would be found with bronze.
It might just be best to leave them as they are.

SSR

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2010, 02:01:30 PM »
My estimation would be that if they are plastic, they are already something like polyurethane, and I doubt that any real improvement would be found with bronze.
It might just be best to leave them as they are.


Any other way of reducing side ways or X movement of swing arm?

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2010, 02:53:02 PM »
Molybdenum disulphide filled Nylon 6/6  ;D

http://www.mcmaster.com/#nylon/=7sqjej

or 6/12

http://www.mcmaster.com/#nylon/=7sqlfu

And you can probably cut them on an inexpensive wood lathe.

Of course they might not be any better Ace.  Don't rain on the parade.  We're building stuff!  ;)  Besides, these might make a nice replacement for the older rubber bushings but with less need for lubrication than a set in bronze.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2010, 04:29:06 PM »
I'm off to the garage boy's, will see what I got. If there plastic, well then gusseting becomes more likely.will see. I'll give an update latter. Thanks.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

clubman

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2010, 08:31:11 PM »
Any other way of reducing side ways or X movement of swing arm?

I vaguely recall reading elsewhere of the early failure of these plastic bushings. Glad to say I've not had any problem to date but are there any dealers here that can give us a perspective?

ace.cafe

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2010, 09:58:51 PM »
Okay, I like building stuff too!

In the spirit of innovation, I've thought about this before, and will add my 2 cents..
If you go to an AutoZone or someplace like that, you'll find sway-bar bushings and other suspension bushings made of polyurethane, which are made for sports applications.
They usually come in a kit, which may have more bushings than you need, and perhaps not all the correct size.
But, you can drill out the center holes if they are smaller, and you can turn down the outer diameter if they are large. If the center hole is too big, you can probably find a metal sleeve that you can press into it, to make it the right size to fit the shaft.
You can end up with the right size after you are done.
I would make them a little big on the O.D. and push them in tight.
I've seen bushings at AutoZone which would work in an Iron Barrel swing-arm with modifications like I described, for under twenty bucks, and you'd have extras left over.

Cheap, available, and easy to modify, and the material is made for the purpose.

I think a little bit of "give" is good, and it won't move noticeably, and should do.
I don't particularly like solid metal bushings  or needle bearings because I think they are harsh, and transmit alot of vibration.

My 2 cents.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 10:02:04 PM by ace.cafe »

enfield freddy

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
Tom , I recently sorted a 55 frame out for another british bullatier (dan ford), the frame was old and the paint was tired



after having it chemicly cleaned , you can see all the braizing on it?



I then got it proffesdsionally painted for him

the earlier UK bikes used a bronze bush settup at the back with pleanty of grease nipples , I replaced the shaft as it was a bit "dull" , what a nice setup!

enfield thought proper in those days , the outer large nuts were made in such a way that a screw was placed in the frame and locked the nuts , the quality of the frame inc the headstock , made the indian frame look like a "photocopy" read from a distance ,,,

arthritis hurts at my age!

ace.cafe

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2010, 10:46:07 PM »
Tom , I recently sorted a 55 frame out for another british bullatier (dan ford), the frame was old and the paint was tired



after having it chemicly cleaned , you can see all the braizing on it?



I then got it proffesdsionally painted for him

the earlier UK bikes used a bronze bush settup at the back with pleanty of grease nipples , I replaced the shaft as it was a bit "dull" , what a nice setup!

enfield thought proper in those days , the outer large nuts were made in such a way that a screw was placed in the frame and locked the nuts , the quality of the frame inc the headstock , made the indian frame look like a "photocopy" read from a distance ,,,



That looks nice Alan!
So, they did the swing arm nut like they do the crankpin nut on the flywheels, with a small screw alongside it?

Does Dan feel any difference in ride with the bronze bushings in there?

enfield freddy

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Re: Bronze Swing Arm Bushings For C5?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2010, 11:02:52 PM »
tom the nuts are like nuts that take a "c" spanner" , with cuttouts , and a small screw (2ba) is screwed into the frame in a proper threaded hole , the holes in the frame are larger than the inyun one , there is a stepped washer (thrust washer) that alignes it , on the inside and comes thru the larger holes in the frame ,look at the headstock , no silly triangular plate wielded in!

tom , I think you know dan from the yahhoo sites , his bike seems to win "best of shows" in the UK , being a 2005 model but looking like a 50s bike (nice bloke!)

here you go , ready for rebuild



now having ridden a few "full blown racers" , some of which have exceeded 45bhp (for sprint racing < 1/2 mile>)  I prfer the older pre 55 frame (but english  made) as opossed the the later 55+ bullet frame , the idiots sold it to india and decided to use a "crusader" type frame  WRONG , the older frame handles better than thelater one ,

dunno about dans frame , but i,m sue he will reply ?

« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 11:15:04 PM by enfield freddy »
arthritis hurts at my age!