Federal laws suck!

[Lahti35]

Well, what is your solution to control gun related crime.
 

Short and sweet.... I don't think there is one. People aren't going to stop shooting people and it would be impossible to get every gun off the street. Sure the cops have those "turn your guns in" days but all that ever shows up are antique goodies that grandma doesn't want in the house anymore even though it might be a S&W rimfire revolver or grandads luger (ask me how i know)!

Video games? Bad parents? The voices in my head said to? Blame it on whatever (so the perp doesn't have to account for his own actions) seems to be the norm now. People kill people with guns.....guns don't kill people. Show me a system of gun control that stops crime, supports sportsmen, and works for collectors. I'd back that in a heartbeat but Washington will never be able to do it.

I'd love it if people didn't get killed by guns, it would make buying them way easier. I am dissapointed in the actions of the extreme pro-gun anti-gun forces. The harder the anti-gun people push the harder us pro gunners have to push back to keep things from becoming more regulated.... I might even have to join the NRA if things get worse soon

There are some guns i'd like to see banned...... but how can you ban some and not others? Bottom line the Gov wants its fingers in every kettle on the stove and thats too much Gov!

You don't want to know about 4 kids and a beard....its just too creepy! You see someone and then you see them years later with a beard that would make ZZ top envious and you wanna poke your eyes out

[ScooterBob]

Lahti35 - Very well put, indeed.

[Lahti35]

How does a gun show work? You can just go in and buy from an individual directly? What about the ads in a newspaper? Same thing?

1. You walk in and want to buy the gun at table XYZ from dealer ABC for $275.
2. (Skip to step 4 if buying a pistol) You fill out the background check paperwork and he calls it in. If you pass, go to step 3.
3. Pay the man and leave with your new toy.
4. If buying a pistol you must have gotten a permit to purchase from your policia, this takes the palce of the call in background check. Fill out the permit, pay the man, and split with your pistol.


If its an individual (the Bradys hate this) you don't need to do a background check. I setup at a show once a year to dispose of some things i don't want, usualy i sell 4-5 guns, ammmo, and antique gun stuff. This is the "gunshow loophole" that supposedly lets future killers buy the assult rifles they are going to blow folks away with.

There are shady dealers out ther...just like in everything else. They don't give a rip and really hurt the resposible dealers when they get taped being an idiot and selling guns to people with no id's. The Brady website has a good video of these scum bags!  

[1 Thump]

Short and sweet.... I don't think there is one. People aren't going to stop shooting people and it would be impossible to get every gun off the street. Sure the cops have those "turn your guns in" days but all that ever shows up are antique goodies that grandma doesn't want in the house anymore even though it might be a S&W rimfire revolver or grandads luger (ask me how i know)!

Video games? Bad parents? The voices in my head said to? Blame it on whatever (so the perp doesn't have to account for his own actions) seems to be the norm now. People kill people with guns.....guns don't kill people. Show me a system of gun control that stops crime, supports sportsmen, and works for collectors. I'd back that in a heartbeat but Washington will never be able to do it.

I'd love it if people didn't get killed by guns, it would make buying them way easier. I am dissapointed in the actions of the extreme pro-gun anti-gun forces. The harder the anti-gun people push the harder us pro gunners have to push back to keep things from becoming more regulated.... I might even have to join the NRA if things get worse soon

There are some guns i'd like to see banned...... but how can you ban some and not others? Bottom line the Gov wants its fingers in every kettle on the stove and thats too much Gov!

You don't want to know about 4 kids and a beard....its just too creepy! You see someone and then you see them years later with a beard that would make ZZ top envious and you wanna poke your eyes out

Ever wonder why there is almost zero gun related crime in the UK ? Lemme tell you why, No Guns. They are illegal, period.

I know I know, the big book gives us the right to buy them, and I am not suggesting a simple solution either. I think a combination of multiple things: Harder punishment for gun related crime, no automatic weapons (you really do not need them, join the army if you want to use them), and other stuff........

[oldsalt]

Not just muzzleloaders. You can legally build anything besides a machinegun if it is legal for you to own a firearm in the first place. You can just never sell any self built guns. Unless you have a Federal manufacturer's license.

I've got a single shot in .22 Hornet  I built many moons ago in gunsmithing school. I know of people who've built semi-autos .Unfortunately I don't have that much free time.....

Yes, I know that.  My "Machinegunners Bible" sits here on the shelf.  Here is one for you about the right to build muzzleloaders:  A Federal Court has ruled that the building and legal selling muzzleloaders can be subject to Federal Excise Tax.  See what the socialist queers have in mind?  Ether admit to the Feds that you built and sold and then pay the tax [so they have your name and the money] or fail to do so and be prosecuted, in a Federal Court, for tax evasion.     

[Lahti35]

Ever wonder why there is almost zero gun related crime in the UK ? Lemme tell you why, No Guns. They are illegal, period.
 I think a combination of multiple things: Harder punishment for gun related crime, no automatic weapons (you really do not need them, join the army if you want to use them), and other stuff........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gun-crime+uk/uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm


I don't know man.....I don't think its working!   I'm not trying to be a dink here, i just don't agree with the way the UK handled gun control. Sure the registered guns got turned it and now the perps are having a field day.

If our Gov spent the firearms fees it collects on education instead of more federal gun BS we could begin to tackle the problem where it starts.

I don't want to see anyone killed via a gun, but taking away millions of registerd guns that only a very small amount are ever used in a crime is not the way to do it.

I've owned over 200 guns  at this point in my life. Bought, sold, traded, etc.....usualy 25-35 at any one given time are here at the homestead. We've never had a shooting or killing here in 30 years. Proud to be an example that having guns does not lead to crimes commited

I respectfully submit the following rare 1922 Enfield MkV...that would have been cut in half and destroyed were it not here in the US. Imagine slicing it with a chop saw.....makes me wanna throw up!

[The Garbone]

Eh, another example that is happening to me..

Have not had a mortgage for about 9 months since we sold the big house and moved into a flip.   We have no dept at all so we decided why not buy a  condo-foreclosure on the beach, prices could not be better.    Well, let me tell ya, we have to write a letter to the government telling then why we want a mortgage for a smaller home within 100 miles of where we live without selling the our primary residence. If we can't get a waiver we have to get a business or vacation home loan at a higher rate and shorter term. This will cost us thousands of dollars.

  WTF?  I need government permission to get a loan??  Fanny May has to review a letter?  What?  I work, have no dept and good credit...   F'n commies......   

[1 Thump]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576406/28-gun-crimes-committed-in-UK-every-day.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gun-crime+uk/uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm


I don't know man.....I don't think its working!   I'm not trying to be a dink here, i just don't agree with the way the UK handled gun control. Sure the registered guns got turned it and now the perps are having a field day.

If our Gov spent the firearms fees it collects on education instead of more federal gun BS we could begin to tackle the problem where it starts.

I don't want to see anyone killed via a gun, but taking away millions of registerd guns that only a very small amount are ever used in a crime is not the way to do it.

I've owned over 200 guns  at this point in my life. Bought, sold, traded, etc.....usualy 25-35 at any one given time are here at the homestead. We've never had a shooting or killing here in 30 years. Proud to be an example that having guns does not lead to crimes commited

I respectfully submit the following rare 1922 Enfield MkV...that would have been cut in half and destroyed were it not here in the US. Imagine slicing it with a chop saw.....makes me wanna throw up!

Homicide rate in the UK : 1.45 /100,000 population
Homicide rate in the US:  4.55/100,000 population  (more than 3 times that of the UK, i.e. 200% more)

Homicide with firearms in the UK: 8%
Homicide with firearms in the US: 65 %

I rest my case.

[The Garbone]

Personally I prefer Liberty over a small bit of statistical safety.   A person should have the ability to act with free will,  any thing less is just slavery, be it owning 3 handguns, riding without a helmet,  electing not to pay health insurance or brewing your own hooch.   

You outlaw guns you cost jobs.  The local seller, the ammo supplier, the range owner, the foundry worker, the magazine publisher..   It makes me sick,  just leave people alone and let them live their lives.  If you feel unsafe protect yourself,  it is your personal responsibility not mine.

[single]

Yeah,4-5 out of 100,000 ain't that bad.Couple of 'em won't be missed,probly.I do not care what the hell ever is going on in other parts of the world.What works for them hardly ever works for us anyway.There is way too much concern about how the"others" do things,in my opinion.

[Lahti35]

Homicide rate in the UK : 1.45 /100,000 population
Homicide rate in the US:  4.55/100,000 population  (more than 3 times that of the UK, i.e. 200% more)

Homicide with firearms in the UK: 8%
Homicide with firearms in the US: 65 %

I rest my case.

Thats cause we got 57% more people who are willing to kill you for your name brand shoes than work hard and earn the money to buy them!


Facts and figures are dubious at best given who uses them and for what. One of the best teachers I ever had made us pick a topic that we supported, then made us write a paper supporting the opposite view. I'll never forget how easy it was to warp info to make it fit whatever i needed to support.

"9 Year old kills friend while playing with fathers gun." Over 12,000 children are killed each year by firearms. Sounds pretty horrible right? Well now consider that those two statements have nothing to do with one another. The first part reports on the tragic death of a child through neglect and accident. The second half is a statistic that includes 18-21 year old gang bangers in large metropolitan areas as "children" ( a loose term flaunted by anti gun folks and has included people up to 31 in some cases reported).

The real problem here is that those two statements are twisted together so it sounds like 12,000 9 year old kids are shooting other kids  all the time. God bless the media for making lies the truth and truth into lies to get the agenda they support n motion.

I'm for keeping every freedom i've got  We'll have to agree to disagree my fellow bullet rindin' brother

[Lahti35]

Eh, another example that is happening to me..

Have not had a mortgage for about 9 months since we sold the big house and moved into a flip.   We have no dept at all so we decided why not buy a  condo-foreclosure on the beach, prices could not be better.    Well, let me tell ya, we have to write a letter to the government telling then why we want a mortgage for a smaller home within 100 miles of where we live without selling the our primary residence. If we can't get a waiver we have to get a business or vacation home loan at a higher rate and shorter term. This will cost us thousands of dollars.

  WTF?  I need government permission to get a loan??  Fanny May has to review a letter?  What?  I work, have no dept and good credit...   F'n commies......   

What a load of crap man! I'll tell ya that compound out west looks better every day

[Kevin Mahoney]

I like the phrase " We will have to agree to disagree". Works will on this board.

I am not disputing the figures about homocides UK versus US, not am I taking a position, but when I go to the UK I notice than a lot of the killings, attempted killings are done with knives. Way more prevalent in the media than here.

[1 Thump]

Yep knives is a bigger problem there, because they have less guns around. But the homicide rate is about 200 % less than the US, gun related homicide is also significantly less. That has got to mean something. 

Lahti: I understand your frustration behind two unrelated stories being presented as intricately connected. The numbers I presented ARE correct, and tell the truth: If you have fewer guns around, you have less gun related homicide. 

[Kevin Mahoney]

Oh boy, here we go.......

I think the numbers are the numbers, but the story behind the numbers is equally important.
I can understand the logic behind the less guns, less gun violence argument and on the surface it make perfect sense.

I think that cities in the US that have had gun bans may have some instructive value. In the end I don't think gun crime goes down. The old adage that if guns are banned only criminals will have guns may have a ring of truth to it. It is pretty rare to hear of a law abiding citizen killing someone with a gun. There clearly are incidents but certainly not the majority.

I don't own a gun (and living in Phoenix there is a strong argument for carrying one)l, mostly because I am afraid that I would accidentally hurt myself or someone else with it. If I felt more competent to own one perhaps I would.

I fully support a citizens right to bear arms though. I think the history of the US gives us a slightly different perspective on this issue than some other countries. The right to bear arms is clearly one of the things that allowed us to be free. I used to laugh at the argument that something like that could happen again, but as I age I am less convinced. From my perspective all I see are politicians working at warp speed to take our freedom to be stupid or to be a non conformist away in favor of centralized which gives power to the few. I am not blaming this on a specific political party as I think both of the major parties push the same agenda. Maybe I am just getting old and cranky or maybe it is wisdom. Pretty hard to tell sometimes which is which.