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Author Topic: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame  (Read 1479 times)

stickyfox

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Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« on: August 30, 2010, 02:56:57 PM »
I'm rebuilding a 2001 classic 500 and I ran into trouble today when I was investigating the paperwork side. For background, the bike belonged to a university that performed horrible experiments on it and then junked it.

It turns out I do not actually have a title, I have a certificate of origin. They apparently never got a title on the bike. I talked to the DMV in Virginia and they won't touch it. They expect me to get the university to title the vehicle, pay all the back taxes, and then print me up ANOTHER bill of sale for the same bike and hand over the title. I don't think I can afford it even if they did feel like bothering.

So the first great idea I had is: what if I find an old "bike" consisting of nothing but a frame? Preferably from a year that the DMV doesn't require paperwork on (70s or earlier I think) Are there any models I can just bolt my iron barrel engine and other accessories to?

Would I really be tempting fate, in the grand scheme of things, if I just welded over the VIN and painted it up real nice and pretended it was a 60s-era frame? Just speaking out of academic curiosity here of course.

Have I reached the point where my best course of action is to dump all of this stuff in the scrap yard and forget it ever happened?

The Garbone

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 04:27:42 PM »
http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/reconstructed.asp


Looks like you can just "Produce" some receipts for the bits (and erase the vin) and get a title...  Bout $150.

Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

rivers

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 06:38:58 PM »
At this point Your best bet prolly find a frame or parts bike w/clean title. You could try one of the title services like Broadway Title. I used them once years ago. I think it was about $150 or so but I don't think they'll deal with anything as new as 01. May not deal with anything later than 1970? Best to call or email. You can google their web site. If your state allows it you can build a bike from parts and get an assembled title. Keep track of all frame/eng numbers etc. They inspect then issue a title with a brand new VIN.
oood luck, I'd be looking for a parts bike if it were me.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 09:00:08 PM »
Go to a different DMv. The bureaucrats vary from place to place
REA #25
2008 Royal Enfield Deluxe (Blue)
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1971 Triumph Bonneville

t120rbullet

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 09:08:37 PM »
Go to a different DMv. The bureaucrats vary from place to place

I agree. The "certificate of origin" or MSO is what comes with every new bike and is what is used to get the first title. It's kinda like a title from the manufacture because the manufacture can't issue a title in every state or country that the bike is sold in.
You need to find a DMV employee that doesn't have their head stuck up their butt.
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Scrounger

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2010, 07:07:46 PM »
The big problem will come with the back taxes and fees.

I'm sure the school did not want to pay taxes on their little project, so they didn't.

If you want to use that VIN you will be on the hook for tax on a new bike $$$$$$.

Ebay is a good source for frames, should you be doing a "project".  Enfield frames are common, and you only pay tax on the cost of the frame.  Should you need to clean up the VIN a bit (heavy sanding and oxidation can make them hard to read ;)) Harbor Freight sells stamp sets.

I would NEVER encourage any illegal activity, or participate in any myself.

Got to run, black hellocopters coming....  Where is my tinfoil hat!
The more pieces that fall off, the faster it goes!

Scrounger

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 03:12:20 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.com/royal-enfield-frame-font-half-/220662322799?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item33607fd66f#ht_500wt_1154

Didn't sell, flat, cheap to ship.............. ::)

Could contact seller for his "best price".
The more pieces that fall off, the faster it goes!

REpozer

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 05:41:37 PM »
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

stickyfox

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 09:56:58 PM »
Yes indeed! good lookin' out.

I whispered this, but I'll ask again in here.. Does this fit? I looked at the parts book and it seems that my frame is similar, but has more parts. What would you guys suggest?

I emailed that seller to see what he thinks.

t120rbullet

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2010, 01:42:33 AM »
Yes indeed! good lookin' out.
I whispered this, but I'll ask again in here.. Does this fit? I looked at the parts book and it seems that my frame is similar, but has more parts. What would you guys suggest?

Take another look at that parts book. That frame doesn't resemble a 01 bullet frame in any way. Your frame is not a 2 piece frame, the rear section is welded on to the tank tube not bolted on.
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

stickyfox

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2010, 07:17:25 PM »
well I'm comparing the part on eBay with my actual frame, which is here in the kitchen. It looks very similar -except for the weld- I meant.

Scrounger

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2010, 08:56:39 PM »
Who cares if it fits?!?!?

It's going to fail and be replaced anyway..............  Just skip the middle step.
The more pieces that fall off, the faster it goes!

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2010, 10:27:21 PM »
Is the certificate of origin from us? As T120RBullet says you should be able to make that work. I would think that with a Bill of Sale adn the MSO or just the MSO you should be good. I would find another DMV and walk in like you own the place. The idea of getting an older framer etc. sounds like work. I can also tell you that the welded tabs etc are different from year to year and it could be a bigger undertaking than you might think.

mrunderhill1975a

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2010, 09:09:55 PM »
I had a similar problem in NV.  The bike was sold in AZ to a guy in NV that did not title it.  The guy then sold it to me with 53 miles on it. The dealer in AZ did not verify the mileage so the NV DMV would not title it even though I had the Certificate of Origin from CMW.  I could not get the orignal dealer to verify the mileage on the Certificate of origin (long distance, too much trouble).

To make a long story shorter, I went to a towing company and explained my situation and showed them the paperwork.  For a fee, they stored the bike on their property for 30 days and declared the bike abandoned property.  They then went through a Sheriff sale of abandoned property, put a notice in the paper, obtained a Texas title, and sold the bike to me for the $100 fee.   I was then able to transfer the title to a NV title.  I cqn't remember how much the DMV jacked me for taxes, but it wasn't excessive.

Good luck.

1 Thump

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Re: Trouble at the DMV - creative option #1: find an old frame
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 02:42:41 AM »
Good work.