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Author Topic: Rough idle/stalling...  (Read 3710 times)

Sub

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Rough idle/stalling...
« on: September 04, 2010, 02:13:59 AM »
I've read most (many? All?)  new c5's have a lumpy idle and are prone to stalling, but I'd like to know.... when does it go away?

r80rt

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 02:16:05 AM »
I've never had a problem like that with mine.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 02:19:21 AM by r80rt »
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 02:53:35 AM »
Mine was kind of hard to keep lit when cold, but only for the first few dozen miles.  The idle has gotten progressively smoother as time has gone on.  I'm still under a thousand miles and it just keeps smoothing out.  I have a friend who is a harley guy and he drove mine two days after I bought it, just to check it out.  He got off and said "vibrates a bit" and I said "year, like your electra doesn't!".  He rode mine again last weekend and commented how much smoother it felt, asked if I had changed anything.  I told him the only thing I changed was the slack on the throttle cable.  There really is a big difference in both smoothness and idle as time and miles go by, but most was in the first hundred miles.
TFM

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 04:18:40 AM »
I've read most (many? All?)  new c5's have a lumpy idle and are prone to stalling, but I'd like to know.... when does it go away?

Your bike should not stall so frequently that it puts you in some uncomfortable or dangerous situation on the road.  I do not know how many miles you have on your C5 (guess that is what you have).  These bike do get better generally speaking.  However, you may try the following as well -

When you start your bike, do not run immediately.  Instead wait for 30-50 seconds  after starting your bike and then go.  A better plug might help.  Also check your idle setting.  Here is a video on how to set idle on UCE RE G5.  I guess C5 also has same set up.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w51XKoubABI
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WillW

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 06:18:40 PM »
My G5 was idling significantly faster after a couple of thousand miles. A very slight turn of the brass screw got it right. Also the Iridium plug has smoothed out any slight unevenness when idling - and significantly improved starting at all temperatures.
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 04:13:40 PM »
Mine idles finr when dead cold, then a little low and can stall a few minutes into riding, then smother and higher once it gets warmed up.  I've also notice the idle (when warm) get smoother and a little higher after a few thousand miles.  As mentioned, if you're unduly worried or inconvenienced something may be wrong, get it checked.

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 03:36:26 PM »
Welp, my dealer finally (3 months) got in the EFI pipe so I installed it last week. Guess what, all my rough running problems are pretty much gone. I was getting stalling idles, mid corner hiccups, rough running.. It seems to have all gone away. I can hit the starter button now and she will keep purring till I take off, which I could never do before. Also my idle seems to have dropped a bit...pop....pop....pop.

I surmise that the computer cant handle (basically) wide open exhausts, so I guess contrary to what others have stated about the flexibility of the oem EFI computer, I think its fairly tight in its tolerances and allowable changes. The bike ran, but pretty poorly and it felt very unrefined.

The bad part... I did notice a fairly large reduction in power with the EFI silencer, so I guess its a tradeoff there. I'm in the search for a pipe somewhere in between the EFI and the megaphone - I need more character and sound than the EFI, but more back-pressure than the megaphone. Maybe there is some way to mod the megaphone.. making the exit diameter smaller perhaps?!

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 03:44:49 PM »
You shouldn't have any running problems with the aftermarket exhausts for the UCE bike. Mine runs great with the Goldie exhaust - it's a straight through pipe. Many here have fitted after market pipes with no problems. Was yours specifically for the UCE, or just some generic open pipe? Not sure why it should make a difference, but perhaps it does. They are advertised as designed specifically for the UCE after all.
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r80rt

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 03:54:21 PM »
I've tried four different mufflers, no problems with any of them.
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Sub

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 05:17:31 PM »
Will, I've run the stock, RE Megaphone, EMGO megaphone, and the RE EFI.  Both of the megaphones (one from the Enfield catalog) ran the same... rough. I really doubt the upswept is wide open. I've heard it in person and its too quiet to be open.

What exhausts have you guys used?

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 05:56:32 PM »
  Maybe it's an air leak around the rubber boot on the intake side. Or gasket.Or airbox. Have you checked them?  Maybe spritz some carb cleaner around the connections? Let the motor cycle, and see if there's a change in the Idle?
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 05:57:37 PM »
I have the Goldstar style exhaust from Watsonian Squire. It's sold as suitable for the EFI bikes and is certainly a straight through pipe - double skin with some sort of baffle material between the inner and outer. It's LOUD when you wind it up! They advertise it as "not for road use", yet they supply the Clubman with it on.  :-\
The performance boost was immediately noticeable, and I'd be very unwilling to return to the stock exhaust for that reason, even though I could do with a bit less volume!
I wonder how the short Watsonian "sports" exhaust sounds. I wanted more bass, not necessarily more noise...!
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 06:07:26 PM »
  Maybe it's an air leak around the rubber boot on the intake side. Or gasket.Or airbox. Have you checked them?  Maybe spritz some carb cleaner around the connections? Let the motor cycle, and see if there's a change in the Idle?

If you're looking for vacuum leaks an unlit propane torch can be handy.  Move it slowly with the vavle open.  If the idle goes up it's sucking in propane where you've got the torch.  Of course do this outside ;)

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 07:40:06 PM »
Me too looking to fit a Goldstar type silencer.
Is there any difference in quality, between the WS one and the Hichcock, or are they the same animal.

clubman

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 08:22:07 PM »
I wonder how the short Watsonian "sports" exhaust sounds. I wanted more bass, not necessarily more noise...!

Haven't heard it but my dealer told me he discourages people from buying it and points them to the Goldie cos the sports one is louder!

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 08:26:06 PM »
Me too looking to fit a Goldstar type silencer.
Is there any difference in quality, between the WS one and the Hichcock, or are they the same animal.

I have the Clubman so have had the Watsonian Goldie from new. I completely agree with Will - it runs absolutely great. Actually, my bike has never stalled in 5,500 miles and three seasons of use. The idle is a touch fast when warm now. I didn't dare touch the settings but will probably do so having followed this thread.

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »
Louder?  Yikes!  I always thought that sports pipe would have a more muffled thump than the Goldie. But I'm given to these irrational fancies....

A very slight turn of the screw will restore the idle speed.
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clubman

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 09:00:27 PM »
I heard an older model with a sports pipe on it, (not the same as the EFI one though), and believe me it was loud! Really nice, deep thump etc etc but loud!

Sub

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 10:22:50 PM »
Ya, the two megaphones I used were open pipes pretty much, and they are "give me a ticket" loud.

I dont think there is an intake leak, but Ill check. Is that propane torch method safe?! never heard of that. Is it a ducati trick?! :)

ScooterBob

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 10:48:18 PM »
If you're looking for vacuum leaks an unlit propane torch can be handy.  Move it slowly with the vavle open.  If the idle goes up it's sucking in propane where you've got the torch.  Of course do this outside ;)

Scott

You forgot to mention the most important part ........
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 11:37:28 PM »
I mentioned 'unlit torch' but it never hurts to say it twice. ;)

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2010, 06:15:25 PM »
Yup, those megaphones of his are really loud!  The upswepte has been a good compromise.  It's quiet in town, but has a nice improvement in tone and volume when "on the pipe"  without being overly loud or grating. Nice improvement in power over the stock pipe as well, but I don't know how that compared to the megas.

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2010, 09:53:35 PM »
I mentioned 'unlit torch' but it never hurts to say it twice. ;)

Scott

Gee - You think I could have READ that in there somehow .......  ::) It must be time for a new seeing eye dog .......  ;D
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2010, 09:54:44 PM »
Dogs have a good sense of smell.  They could smell the propane fumes and warn you ;)

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2011, 07:38:25 PM »
to cure EFI stalling, i began starting the bike differently.

i turn the key & wait for the engine light to go out, THEN hit the starter.
while the light is on & you hear the buzzing, the bike's brain is resetting itself. if you push the starter before it's ready it doesn't work right.

my bike stalled twice in the first week i owned it. after changing my starting ritual it hasn't stalled since.


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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 01:37:33 AM »
Hey Michael K and welcome to the forums  :)
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2011, 02:20:05 AM »
Your bike should not stall so frequently that it puts you in some uncomfortable or dangerous situation on the road.  I do not know how many miles you have on your C5 (guess that is what you have).  These bike do get better generally speaking.  However, you may try the following as well -

When you start your bike, do not run immediately.  Instead wait for 30-50 seconds  after starting your bike and then go.  A better plug might help.  Also check your idle setting.  Here is a video on how to set idle on UCE RE G5.  I guess C5 also has same set up.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w51XKoubABI


Ok, I watched the video. The C5 adjuster is buried under the gas tank. Which way do you turn the screw? Clockwise for higher rpm?

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 02:41:58 AM »
Ok, I watched the video. The C5 adjuster is buried under the gas tank. Which way do you turn the screw? Clockwise for higher rpm?
Back the screw out, counter-clockwise, to increase idle speed.

olhogrider

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 02:47:52 AM »
Thanks!

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 02:55:37 AM »
Dan. you wouda figgered that out on your own in two seconds.  It ain't rocket surgery bro ;)

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 03:00:58 AM »
Dan. you wouda figgered that out on your own in two seconds.  It ain't rocket surgery bro ;)

Scott

Actually I was able to squeeze a 90 degree screwdriver in there but could only turn less than 1/4 turn. Not enough to make a difference. Now that I know which way to turn I'll give it another go.

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2011, 01:42:43 AM »
I had a few stalls during the first 200 miles especially when the engine was warm. This mostly happened after downshifting to come to a halt. New iridium plug as well as the engine getting smoother as it breaks in seems to have cured this problem.
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2011, 01:48:51 AM »
Which plug are you running?

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2011, 01:59:55 AM »
NGK BR8EIX.  This was the recommended plug for 500cc RE in the NGK catalog as well.
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singhg5

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2011, 02:48:59 AM »
NGK BR8EIX.  This was the recommended plug for 500cc RE in the NGK catalog as well.

Sat Sree Akaal:

Do you have a EFI UCE bike ?  If so, there are a few points to consider - These bikes are originally fitted with Bosch WR7 DDC4 from the factory in Chennai. We cannot get them here in USA.  The closest equivalent to these are BPR 6ES or BPR 6EIX (iridium).  

Some people might consider NGK of 7 heat range to be more appropriate. Others may think of switching to two plug system - colder (NGK 7) in summer and hotter (NGK 6) in winter. Heat range of NGK runs opposite to that of Bosch - as the number increases the plug becomes COLDER in NGK and HOTTER in Bosch.

It seems that NGK catalog has not been updated for these new bikes and still recommend the heat range 8 that was used for the older engines. The plug BR 8EIX will work but it is a COLD plug that may not fully burn the fuel and at some point start to deposit carbon.  Secondly, this plug is not projected whereas original Indian plug is projected so there is a slight difference in the location of spark.  

If you want, buy a BPR 6EIX plug and try in your bike - you will see the difference in how the pick up changes.  

I also had a heat range 8 NGK plug in my bike long time ago. When these bikes were new and I had a starting problem with my G5, we had a very extensive discussion on finding right spark plug (link below). Since then and after careful investigation and experimentation, it became clear that the heat range should be 6 for NGK to match Bosch OEM plug.

The link below has lot of useful input from people from around the world that is worth going through.  

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,6334.0/all.html
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 03:17:31 AM by singhg5 »
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GSS

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2011, 03:28:31 AM »
Thanks for the info. It is a C5 UCE and definitely great fun to own. Hopefully we saw our last snowflake this morning and can look forward to a few nice months. The Bosch WR7 DDC4 combined with a new engine ran a bit rough and the difference with NGK was instantaneous. I did read the extensive discussion about the heat range differences and US Bosch equivalents, and this NGK is pretty close to what is needed as there is a slight difference in how both companies designate their plugs.

I will definitely pick up a BPR 6EIX next time and give it a try. NGKs and even plain old Champions have always seemed to work better than Bosch in all my miscellaneous projects over the years. Anyway I will need an excuse to "decarbonize" the combustion chamber in a couple of months......who knows, that might be a good time to wrangle in a 600+ cc cylinder!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 12:46:46 PM by GSS »
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2011, 11:41:14 AM »
The P in the NGK plug number means projected tip, something important to the UCE engine.  And we can get the Bosch plugs in the US now:
http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/engine/spark-plugs.html

Scott

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2011, 12:54:37 PM »
NGK BR8EIX.  This was the recommended plug for 500cc RE in the NGK catalog as well.

That plug is for the old Iron motors.
The UCE takes a BPR6EIX
CJ
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ScooterBob

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2011, 02:34:48 PM »
Actually I was able to squeeze a 90 degree screwdriver in there but could only turn less than 1/4 turn. Not enough to make a difference. Now that I know which way to turn I'll give it another go.

How about loosening the clamps and rotating the throttle body until you can get to the screw? It's MUCH easier to do that way. New air bypass screws are not to be had currently if you booger the one you have whilst trying to adjust it ......
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 09:46:56 PM »
..we can get the Bosch plugs in the US now:
http://nfieldgear.com/enfield-store/maintenance-repair/engine/spark-plugs.html

Thanks Scott for informing that Bosch is now available in US.  I have ordered one today as I really want to see it and try it.  I have never seen that plug because the dealer who sold me G5 had replaced the original (Bosch) plug with B8ES without informing me  >:(.  A few months later when bike would not start I pulled the plug and found out that I was given a cold plug, without resistor, with non-projected tip. It always bothered me that the dealer did not discuss with me that he had changed my bike's plug with a non-matching plug. Some dealers are neither knowledgeable nor trustworthy. Since then I am more careful about them.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 03:38:19 AM by singhg5 »
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GSS

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2011, 03:28:07 AM »
That plug is for the old Iron motors.
The UCE takes a BPR6EIX
CJ
Sounds good. Will pick one up soon. Thanks.
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Andy

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2011, 09:48:04 PM »
Sat Sree Akaal:

Do you have a EFI UCE bike ?  If so, there are a few points to consider - These bikes are originally fitted with Bosch WR7 DDC4 from the factory in Chennai. We cannot get them here in USA.  The closest equivalent to these are BPR 6ES or BPR 6EIX (iridium).  

Some people might consider NGK of 7 heat range to be more appropriate. Others may think of switching to two plug system - colder (NGK 7) in summer and hotter (NGK 6) in winter. Heat range of NGK runs opposite to that of Bosch - as the number increases the plug becomes COLDER in NGK and HOTTER in Bosch.

It seems that NGK catalog has not been updated for these new bikes and still recommend the heat range 8 that was used for the older engines. The plug BR 8EIX will work but it is a COLD plug that may not fully burn the fuel and at some point start to deposit carbon.  Secondly, this plug is not projected whereas original Indian plug is projected so there is a slight difference in the location of spark.  

If you want, buy a BPR 6EIX plug and try in your bike - you will see the difference in how the pick up changes.  

I also had a heat range 8 NGK plug in my bike long time ago. When these bikes were new and I had a starting problem with my G5, we had a very extensive discussion on finding right spark plug (link below). Since then and after careful investigation and experimentation, it became clear that the heat range should be 6 for NGK to match Bosch OEM plug.

The link below has lot of useful input from people from around the world that is worth going through.  

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,6334.0/all.html


I put in a BPR8ES since the 6 is near to impossible to find around here.  I thought it was a hotter plug, not colder - so I guess that's the new thing I learned today, and thank you for that.  I'll keep searching out that hotter plug.

As far as rough idle and stalling goes, I made the error of dumping a litre or so of last year's emergency jerry can into the tank.  Good God, what a difference one stinking litre of bad gas can make!  It'd stall out at every light, and wouldn't stay running at all.  I immediately filled up the tank with the good stuff, but I couldn't fix the problem until I ran some Lucas injector cleaner through it and took it for a good run.  Seems to have settled down again and purrs nice and smooth as it ought.

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GSS

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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2011, 11:52:19 PM »
Autozone and a couple of other chains have BPR6EIX available for 6.99.  I just ordered a couple and they will have them in about 2 days.

I had to do this to reduce your stress level  :D
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 12:46:04 PM by GSS »
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Re: Rough idle/stalling...
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2011, 03:30:28 AM »
Autozone and a couple of other chains have BPR6EIX available for 6.99.  I just ordered a couple and they will have them in about 2 days.

I had to do this to reduce SinghG5s stress level  :D

Sandhu Ji:

You are stress buster  ;D !
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5