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Author Topic: How Soft is Soft  (Read 2170 times)

GreenMachine

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 10:06:43 PM »
I have a 06 iron...All I did was put the bike on side stand...Unscrew the tops of each fork ...I  gently cracked the bottom of fork nut and gently pushed down on front fork using  the handelbar and drained out the old fork oil....Closed bottom fork nut. and fill with fork oil (think 200 ml) sounds right....I remember not muched came out and not much went in but I went ahead and measured for both forks the same exact amount....I believe I may have put the bike on centerstand when I filled both forks...cheers
Oh Magoo you done it again

gashousegorilla

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 03:27:34 AM »
Thanks gahousegorilla. My weights 175lb.
Does this mean then, that, by rights , according to the book, I have to remove the forks every 1000kms., to check the oil.Surely this can't be right Can it?
Believe it or not yes, BUT, if as mentioned before, if you have had no leaks, all should be well.  I am the exact same weight. I have a C-5, and have not ridden the G-5, but I would think that a 15 w fork oil would be good. Still giving you some comfort, but not too stiff.  It all depends on your comfort and riding style. Spent a lot of time doing high speed cornering, ruff roads, Autobahn maybe? you might want a stiffer feel.Then go to 20 w fork oil. It's what ever you like and feel comfortable with. I have been running 20 w in my C-5 for all the high speed stuff I've been playing with, and I like it now, probably too stiff for some, but not me. I run 15 w oil with progressive springs  on my cb750 cafe bike and i like that set up. It will still give me some comfort, with all the weight on my wrists, due to the clubmans. But the performance is not bad either, for practicle all around riding, highways, city, country roads. If  i spent alot of time on a track, things would be different.  Buy I agree with you, the 10 w 30 motor oil is no good, too soft. But some may like that soft comfortable feel. All preference.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

singhg5

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 03:51:09 AM »
Thanks for all the interesting responces.
The manual just states "fork oil" 200m/leg. I suppose they mean 200ml/leg.(no viscosity quoted)

I'm pretty sure the service book says 265 cc's.

Both of you have read correct :  

Owner's Manual = 200 ml per leg
Service Manual = 265 +/- 2.5 ml per leg (should read 265 + 2.5 ml)

Owner's Manual = No listed viscosity
Service Manual = SAE 10W-30

This kind of discrepency in two different manuals or sources has been seen in other parameters too.  E.g., tyre pressure.                          
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 01:35:35 PM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

Ducati Scotty

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2010, 04:17:04 AM »
Both of you have read correct :  

Owner's Manual = 200 ml per leg
Service Manual = 265 +/- 2.5 ml per leg

Owner's Manual = No listed viscosity
Service Manual = SAE 10W-30

This kind of discrepency in two different manuals or sources has been seen in other parameters too.  E.g., tyre pressure.                          

Any advice from ScooterBob or Kevin which amt is prefred?

Scott

SSR

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2010, 04:31:16 PM »
Both of you have read correct :  

Owner's Manual = 200 ml per leg
Service Manual = 265 +/- 2.5 ml per leg

Owner's Manual = No listed viscosity
Service Manual = SAE 10W-30

This kind of discrepency in two different manuals or sources has been seen in other parameters too.  E.g., tyre pressure.                          


Singh Ji,

In the C5 manual, its 195ml per leg and they reduced the level by 5ml for expansion of gasses as 200ml per leg was causing a bit of bouncy moments.

I got the fork oil changed today and it wasn't easy. Had to remove booth the forks as the drain plug on the bottom was moving without getting loose.

Although a bit surprised to what quantity was drained per leg.
In one it was 150ml and other it was 170ml to the specs of 195ml. I never had any leak so I was a bit surprised to where the rest of the oil went or RE never topped it up at the factory.

I was a bit cautious to put 195ml as my C5 slag in the front was half a inch higher compared to a new C5. So assuming there still be some oil sticking inside the forks, I used Shell 10w30 with 170ml in each fork.

Now I am quite satisfied as I have got just the right handling at front now. Neither to heavy nor to soft. Just the way I wanted all that long.

singhg5

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2010, 05:40:25 PM »
Singh Ji,

In the C5 manual, its 195ml per leg and they reduced the level by 5ml for expansion of gasses as 200ml per leg was causing a bit of bouncy moments.

I got the fork oil changed today and it wasn't easy. Had to remove booth the forks as the drain plug on the bottom was moving without getting loose.

I was a bit cautious to put 195ml as my C5 slag in the front was half a inch higher compared to a new C5. So assuming there still be some oil sticking inside the forks, I used Shell 10w30 with 170ml in each fork.

Now I am quite satisfied as I have got just the right handling at front now. Neither to heavy nor to soft. Just the way I wanted all that long.

SSR:

After I read your post, this got me thinking if C5 and G5 have different oil volumes in forks ?  According to the Service Manual, the stroke length of G5 (USA) and Electra (UK) is 15.5 cm and of C5 is only 13 cm (less by 2.5 cm). Any info on C5 vs. G5 oil volumes ?
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

SSR

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2010, 07:05:23 PM »
You are right about the length of strokes so in fair comparison  G5 vs C5 specs

                                            G5                         C5

Stroke length                      15.5cm                  13mm

Oil volume capacity             200ml                    195ml




My owners and service manual corroborates the specs. I asked the mechanics about the volume and they had never filled any fork with more then 200ml in all the CI bullets in a decade. So I am assuming the volume given in your service manual is either a mistake or they have given the volume 265ml for a fresh overhaul of the suspension(totally bone dry of oil. In which case there will be no oil sticking to the inside of the forks and rods but will 65ml be consumed just to get the inside wet without raising the volume is what I am not clear about.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2010, 07:08:42 PM »
65ml just to get it all wet would be a LOT of oil.  I would suspect it wouldn't take more than 5-10ml.

When I do my forks plan to fill with 195 and then measure the height of the oil with the spring out and the fork compressed.  Oil height is generally considered a much more accurate way of measuring the amount of oil in a fork.  Make sure to pump the fork leg several times to get all the air out and get an accurate reading.

Scott

SSR

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2010, 07:20:39 PM »
65ml just to get it all wet would be a LOT of oil.  I would suspect it wouldn't take more than 5-10ml.

When I do my forks plan to fill with 195 and then measure the height of the oil with the spring out and the fork compressed.  Oil height is generally considered a much more accurate way of measuring the amount of oil in a fork.  Make sure to pump the fork leg several times to get all the air out and get an accurate reading.

Scott


But Scott, Singh has G5 with a longer stroke of 2.5cm so theoretically it could take the extra 65ml over our stroke of 13cm on C5's.

We C5 owners cant go over 195 and you lads can run a bit higher volume to 195 as you got better and less bouncy roads where as we down here cant afford to be bouncy all the time.

Its a good way of measuring oil height but how much will be too much in our case then?

Ducati Scotty

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2010, 07:53:32 PM »
If you take the numbers above as correct that's still 65ml over 200ml recommended for teh G5.  Neither fork (G5 or C5) should take that much to 'wet down'.  If you want to add more oil that's your choice and a fair amount of fine tuning can be had that way.  I'm just stating that 65ml over recommended (a 33% total increase) sounds like a bit too much to me.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2010, 02:51:40 AM »
 Guy's, not to further confuse things. But my sercice manual clearly states 265 cc + 2.5 cc each leg. Not  + or -. . Now that is not explained , but it could be a typo. Or it may mean, like a Honda or harley service manual will, be giving a higher volume,+2.5, for a complete disassembly and rebuild. Which I think is more likely. My service manual also lists the same volume for both the C-5 and G-5. I did see in the owners manual the listing of 200 ml's. But the owners manual also gives mention to an oil tank? So when I changed my fork oil i put in 265 cc. And it's fine. I'm not blowing out the seals, like you would when over filled.And I can bottom the front suspention when compressed. Now I would tend to trust a service manual, over the owner's manual. Like Singh said, there are discrepencies. I do know that the owners manuals came out first, The service manual much later, last year when the UCE's were introduced. I would hope that the service manual would have been well edited by the Engineers? Maybe the listing of 200 ml's is left over from the older Bikes? I don't know? And correct me if I'm wrong, a cc and ml, or both the same unit of measure? I usually deal in ounces. ::)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 03:23:12 AM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2010, 04:13:27 AM »
Now I would tend to trust a service manual, over the owner's manual. Like Singh said, there are discrepencies.

And correct me if I'm wrong, a cc and ml, or both the same unit of measure? I usually deal in ounces. ::)

Yes, service manual is a better reference. 

I deal in ounces too.  12 at a time every day after work :)

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2010, 04:20:00 AM »
 ;)
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

gashousegorilla

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2010, 04:35:13 AM »



In the C5 manual, its 195ml per leg and they reduced the level by 5ml for expansion of gasses as 200ml per leg was causing a bit of bouncy moments.

uote]
 I that because they are using motor oil instead of fork oil?
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

SSR

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Re: How Soft is Soft
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 08:15:20 AM »



In the C5 manual, its 195ml per leg and they reduced the level by 5ml for expansion of gasses as 200ml per leg was causing a bit of bouncy moments.

uote]
 I that because they are using motor oil instead of fork oil?

I dont know how much difference between the oil will make if they are of same grade.