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Author Topic: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?  (Read 1647 times)

WillW

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Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« on: September 09, 2010, 03:40:56 PM »
Can someone with good eyesight and insight into the black art of wiring diagrams tell me whether the wire to the horn BUTTON is live or ground?  Thanks.  ???  :-\
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 05:03:03 PM »
Can someone with good eyesight and insight into the black art of wiring diagrams tell me whether the wire to the horn BUTTON is live or ground?  Thanks.  ???  :-\
Not with book now, but what color is It. I noticed the grounds on my bike a solid black. Stripped blacks were hot.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 05:14:09 PM »
  Black art, too funny  Will :D Think of wiring like plumbing. The switches are valves, the wires are pipe. The difference is you must bring another pipe back to the source.  That return is the ground. That help? Devices need a ground, like a light, switches do not ,cause your just opening and closing the valve. You can also put a switch on the ground to open and close the valve. Get it ?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 03:33:34 PM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

SSR

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 06:22:25 PM »
  Black art, too funny  Will :D Think of wiring like plumbing. The switches are valves, the wires are pipe. The difference is you must bring at pipe back to the source.  That return is the ground. That help? Devices need a ground, like a light, switches do not ,cause your just opening and closing the valve. You can also put a switch on the ground to open and close the valve. Get it ?

Couldn't get simpler then that, nice one;)

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 06:37:04 PM »
Couldn't get simpler then that, nice one;)
Yea, I ain't that smart, I believe in" KISS"  Keep it simple stupid ! Helps me understand them mysterious things. :D
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Ragmas

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2010, 07:08:47 PM »
The circuit for the horn works as follows.  hot from the ignition switch to the horn.  This should be a black/blue wire that branches off of a red wire. 
Coming out of the horn is a second wire that is the ground wire that goes to the switch.  This should be a black/red wire. 

The switch acts as gashousegorilla put it, like a valve that allows the electricity to go to ground. 

If you open up your switch housing you should be able to take a simple continuity tester and check which lead on the horn shows continuity to the wire atached to the switch.

I hope that was helpful. 

Sam
2009 G-5 Military
Little Falls, NY

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 07:33:13 PM »
The circuit for the horn works as follows.  hot from the ignition switch to the horn.  This should be a black/blue wire that branches off of a red wire. 
Coming out of the horn is a second wire that is the ground wire that goes to the switch.  This should be a black/red wire. 

The switch acts as gashousegorilla put it, like a valve that allows the electricity to go to ground. 

If you open up your switch housing you should be able to take a simple continuity tester and check which lead on the horn shows continuity to the wire atached to the switch.

I hope that was helpful. 

Sam
Excellent !!!  But I would add that you must be carfull that When checking with a continuity tester on a car or a bike. If there is a light in the circuit, you could get a false read. It's best to disconnect both ends of the known wire to see if it's good or not. That's why we use test lights most of the time. Oh no ! were  getting back into the dark relms again :D
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

singhg5

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 10:53:16 PM »
Sam and GHG have explained very well this voodoo black art of invisible electons and their movement.  Their writings got me ineteresed and I looked into the circuit diagram.  I focussed ONLY on the circuit for HORN and its SWITCH (Button in English  ;)).   I traced them with colored lines to easily identify them, out of a jumble of wires.

Here is what is in the Circuit Diagram -

1.  Black/Blue comes off Red/White from the ignition switch and enters Horn  (In the picture below it is traced by RED color).

2.  Black/Red leaves Horn and via a coupler goes to Switch (In the picture it is traced by Green color)

3.  Leaves Switch to coupler and comes out as BLACK (In picture it is traced by Yellow color).

The colors of wires are upto coupler only.  Don't know if the same color scheme holds up between coupler and switch.  It was still fun tracing these wires.  Hope it helps a bit.
 
 
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2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 12:38:00 AM »
 Good job Singh, makes reading that diagram much easier !  Ok not sure whats wrong with Will's horn, cause he has not told US ! But from the diagram I'll give it a whirl. One hot wire on the horn, one ground wire on the horn. Black and blue is hot, black and red are a ground switch leg, to the switch. When the horn button is depressed, the black and red connect through the switch, to the black, which goes to ground,(frame or - battery terminal). When that acccures , Now the voodoo, positive and negative meat at the horn, causing the horn to vibrate in a controlled short circuit. Just like a lighting circuit would, except you usually switch the hot side. In a lighting circuit, the bulb replaces the horn, the result is heat in the fillement . Hows that?
 Sigh if you really want to get into some real witch craft. Do some reseach into how a ignition coil works.  Magnetic fields, the energizing and de-energizing of one, and what happens when you do. Crazy cool stuff! Also check out Triumphs + ground system. Down right Druid stuff , that is. :D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 12:52:31 AM by gashousegorilla »
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WillW

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 08:37:06 AM »
Many thanks guys for taking so much trouble on this. You'll have gathered that my knowledge of wiring is fundamental, and as far as wiring diagrams go - my old eyes are such now that I have to photograph them at high res and print them BIG to even stand a chance!
I'm away from home currently and am just catching up on the forum, but will be back on this horn thing tomorrow. There's no problem except my new super loud twin horns have come with alternative wiring diagrams - I can figure these out, but which one I need depends on whether the wire to the horn button is live or ground.
I think it's ground, but don't want to start blowing fuses to find out!
These are Stebel Magnum twin tone horns - same volume as the Nautilus, but better looking on the bike, IMO.
Thanks again all
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

gashousegorilla

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 03:50:18 PM »
 Black art, too funny  Will :D Think of wiring like plumbing. The switches are valves, the wires are pipe. The difference is you must bring another pipe back to the source.  That return is the ground. That help? Devices need a ground, like a light, switches do not ,cause your just opening and closing the valve. You can also put a switch on the ground to open and close the valve. Get it ?
Also I should add that sometimes those valves are normally open and sometimes there normally closed. with a switch or a button, closed means open, open means closed ??? When the switch is operated, it either opens or closes the contacts inside the switch. Depending on what you want to do. A horn button is a normally open switch, when you push it, it closes the contacts, and lets the magic go through. A rear brake light switch is one that would be normally closed.When you step on the brake pedal, it pulls on the spring attached to the switch, and opens the switch.
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singhg5

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 11:35:02 PM »
Many thanks guys for taking so much trouble on this. 

These are Stebel Magnum twin tone horns - same volume as the Nautilus, but better looking on the bike, IMO.
Thanks again all

Sounds like a car horn, isn't it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItWBJ69VzW8&feature=related
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5

WillW

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 08:16:08 AM »
Yes it sounds like a loud car horn. Here's a link to side by side comparison to the Nautilus:
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdy233EIWkM  (skip to 1:05)
and another solo demo:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=67biW4tAVRU
The Magnums are perhaps not as shrill as the Nautilus, but are rated at the same volume, and not as ungainly looking.  More in keeping with the style of the bike I think.
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~

WillW

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Re: Hot or Ground wire to horn button?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2010, 09:53:23 PM »
So the Magnum beastly loud twin horns are on the bike. I fitted them either side of the pulse air valve (whatever that is, but that's what it's called in the owner's manual diagram). They fit easily using the supplied mounting brackets, there are four of them so I used two on each horn for double strength. I fitted them between the PAV and the frame rather than on the front of the PAV, this saves grinding the mounting brackets to fit. They extend out each side just a couple of inches and clear the forks on full lock by half an inch.
Once I'd deciphered the wiring diagram, which is printed on the packaging too small for human eyes to see, the wiring was simple. I had to take the rear bolt out of the fuel tank which enabled me to hinge it up enough to thread the wires back to the battery, and to cable tie them to the existing loom. I untied the two original horn wires from the frame and folded them back under the tank, from where I extended them to reach the relay, which I attached to the RH battery housing screw. Just one new wire then had to be run back to here from the horns. I can detail the actual connections if anyone is interested and wants to avoid the wiring diagram.
Everything works fine, and they are LOUD.
Below are a couple of not very good picture but perhaps it will give an idea of how the horns look mounted on the bike. I have removed the original horn since taking the pics.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 09:57:40 PM by WillW »
2010 Royal Enfield Electra (G5) DL

2004 Kawasaki W650
~ the best british bike they never made ~