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Author Topic: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But  (Read 3684 times)

fredgold52

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Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« on: January 11, 2008, 07:25:22 PM »
Can the cat converter section be removed from the stock header pipe?  I kind of like the stock muffler, but I want to get rid of the converter and the PAV stuff.  Has anybody done this removal successfully?

Thanks,
Fred
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

BanditRE

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 07:39:38 PM »
Hey Fred,

Its on my 'to-do' list for this month or next month. I got a cheap exhaust off an older bike, I think a 99, which had no cat converter and no little nipple thing on it for the PAV stuff. That way I can remove all the EPA garbage on it and it'll run infinitely better!

Back to your question, I think you can remove the convertor. There's another topic on here somewhere that deals with it. Some weld removal and the whole thing slides out of the exhaust pipe. Be aware that you may need to change the jets in your carb, as the increased exhaust flow may cause you to run a little leaner than stock.

You should always ask! No 'buts' about it.

Paul

Paul
2007 Military. It needs some company now the Suzuki has left the stable..........

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 09:50:33 PM »
My plan (for when it gets warmer) is to pull out the converter and check the stock muffler to see if it's straight through.  If it isn't, it probably will be.  Then on to the PAV stuff.  Blanking off the nipple on the pipe and the vacuum fitting on the carb manifold, venting the engine breather to atmosphere, and so on.  I want the bike to run the way it was originally intended.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

BanditRE

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 09:52:46 PM »
Amen brother. Enfields were not intended for cat convertors and pulsed air systems.
2007 Military. It needs some company now the Suzuki has left the stable..........

Leonard

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 10:51:35 PM »
  I posted some photos on my blog at http://wil6831.multiply.com/journal/item/579/REB_Exhaust_System
  If you can't get on there OK let me know and I will resize the pics and post them here.
The cat converter is pretty easy to cut out, just cut or grind the welds off and it should pull right out.  When I got a new header and muffler I removed the converter from the stock system and also chopped a one foot section out of the stock muffler.  All just for the heck of it, wanted to see how it sounded.
  It isn't a free flowing as the shorty muffler but it frees thing up a bit.  As you can see the stock muffler is quite the maze of plumbing.

Can the cat converter section be removed from the stock header pipe?  I kind of like the stock muffler, but I want to get rid of the converter and the PAV stuff.  Has anybody done this removal successfully?

Thanks,
Fred
2009 Triumph Bonneville T100
2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
2001 Kawasaki W650 (going, going...gone)
http://www.romeoriders.com

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 11:24:53 PM »
Thanks Leonard, that's very helpful.  I don't know what I'll do about the muffler.  The choices are; 1. leave it alone, 2. modify it, 3. replace it.  Have to see how this goes.

2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

Thumper

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 12:44:43 AM »
  I posted some photos on my blog at http://wil6831.multiply.com/journal/item/579/REB_Exhaust_System
  If you can't get on there OK let me know and I will resize the pics and post them here.
The cat converter is pretty easy to cut out, just cut or grind the welds off and it should pull right out.  When I got a new header and muffler I removed the converter from the stock system and also chopped a one foot section out of the stock muffler.  All just for the heck of it, wanted to see how it sounded.
  It isn't a free flowing as the shorty muffler but it frees thing up a bit.  As you can see the stock muffler is quite the maze of plumbing.

Can the cat converter section be removed from the stock header pipe?  I kind of like the stock muffler, but I want to get rid of the converter and the PAV stuff.  Has anybody done this removal successfully?

Thanks,
Fred

There's also some notes I took regarding the PAV removal at:

http://members.verizon.net/allofusmorrows/PerfUpgrade.htm

Matt

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2008, 01:59:46 PM »
Thanks Thumper.  That's a very complete write up.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

dogbone

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 02:27:55 PM »
Fredgold52   I tried to knock out the standard muffler baffles, all I accomplished was to create a rattle !
99 Enfield Bullet 535
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fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2008, 03:51:52 PM »
I have done that with other mufflers too, Dogbone.  I really don't want a muffler that has a rattle in it, but I need to watch the dollars.  I will try the engine with just the converter removed and some jetting work on the carb.  That may be all it needs as it runs pretty much to suit me right now.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

Leonard

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2008, 05:16:05 PM »
Fred,
  I will say that the stock muffler, after 2000 miles, was starting to sound less like my lawn mower and more like a motorcycle.  You got a new bike didn't you?  Here is some unsolicited advice for you.........don't change anything until you get a couple thousand miles on it.  If it is like mine you will have enough to do tweaking what you have without adding new stuff.  In hindsite I would also advise pulling the throttle assembly off and taking a look at how that works and decide if you need to do some filing on the part the cable fits into.  It should rotate freely and if it doesn't you will be breaking the cable in short order.  Most important of all when the roads are clear ride, ride, ride.  By the time Spring rolls around you should have it run in and can start having some real fun.
-Leonard
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2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
2001 Kawasaki W650 (going, going...gone)
http://www.romeoriders.com

Foggy_Auggie

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2008, 07:01:00 PM »
Fred,
  I will say that the stock muffler, after 2000 miles, was starting to sound less like my lawn mower and more like a motorcycle.  You got a new bike didn't you?  Here is some unsolicited advice for you.........don't change anything until you get a couple thousand miles on it.  If it is like mine you will have enough to do tweaking what you have without adding new stuff.  In hindsite I would also advise pulling the throttle assembly off and taking a look at how that works and decide if you need to do some filing on the part the cable fits into.  It should rotate freely and if it doesn't you will be breaking the cable in short order.  Most important of all when the roads are clear ride, ride, ride.  By the time Spring rolls around you should have it run in and can start having some real fun.
-Leonard

I second what Leonard says.  Put 2000 miles on it and don't monkey with anything unless there seems an issue with an item.  Other than mounting external accesseries.

My two pennies worth.

Regards, Foggy
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

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fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2008, 10:10:26 PM »
Thanks for the advice guys.  I know I should take it.  In fact, I may take it.  Then again, , , ,


Just had it out for a few miles.  I would say there's some crud in the low speed jet since it hesitates and wants to starve for fuel even after it is warm.  It does run well with hte choke on however.  Now I can just clean the carb out and maybe install a fuel filter, or I could up jet both the main and the low speed and grind the converter out of it.

So what it comes down to is either just clean the carb and take these good peoples advice, or take advantage of the carb being off to change the jets and exit the cat.  Boy, this is a tough one.  Am I a strong enough person to do the right thing here?  Geeze, I just don't know.

Thank you guys again for your good advice.  I will be going through the tuning, timing and valves on my honey just to be sure they are right.

Leonard, yes it is a brand new 2006 '65' with only 18 miles on it two days ago.  Now it has 126 miles.  It's pretty cold over here so riding isn't what it could be.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

BanditRE

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 01:00:54 AM »
That's good advice about the mileage. Mine has about 1800 miles on it and I haven't really done anything but maintenance. There's plenty to do during break-in. Plus the bike changes alot during the first 1000 miles or so. I'm not sure how your dealer is, but if something goes BANG and you take it in and the bike isn't stock anymore, he could wiggle out of doing the repairs. You know, it was the owners fault, not my problem. What you're proposing isn't terribly serious in nature but you may want to wait a while before tinkering....................yes, I know its hard!
2007 Military. It needs some company now the Suzuki has left the stable..........

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2008, 12:21:47 PM »
Bandit, my dealer is non-existant.  Here's a short story about why I will never take my bike back to him. 

I called him the evening before to let him know I would be picking the bike up around noon the next day.  When I got there, my 65 was sitting exactly where it had been a month earlier, but all the little chinese bikes and the Electra were gone.  I ask him where the Electra was and he said he'd be getting it back because it didn't bring enough at the AUCTION.

He had forgotten to order the $500 worth of parts and accreeories I asked for.  The bike still had 2 years worth of dust and crud on it.  Battery was flat.  Tires had 5 to 10 lbs pressure.  As I looked around his shop, most of the bikes in there were in various stages of taken apart.  A Deluxe model was against the back wall with it's top end off.  Looked like it had been that way for a very long time.  I asked the dealer before I left about the oil - he said it was fine.  I checked the oil level the next day.  It took 3/4 of a qt. to put the level half way up the stick.  I had ridden my new Bullet its first 60 miles dangerously low on oil.

I have no dealer very close at all so I am prepared to do all the work this bike requires my self.  I figured it would be this way when I bought it, and actually that's fine with me.  I trust me much more than I would trust hime to get things right.

Sorry about the negative post, but this is how the thing went down.  I have honestly never seen such a poor excuse for a bike dealer.  But, any of you looking for a cheap Electra might want to call him.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 12:43:42 PM by fredgold52 »
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

Spitting Bull

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2008, 12:27:47 PM »
Fredgold - although your bike may be ready to be sold to its new owner, it's only been assembled.  It isnt actually finished yet.  You have to finish the build yourself by careful running-in.  Ride it for 1,000 miles and then you'll be able to get an idea of what kind of bike you've got.  After 1,000 miles your bike will be smoother, more responsive and (slightly!) faster than it is now.  You'll also be more familiar with it.  I think that's the time to start thinking about improvements.

All I did was fit a shorter, less restrictive silencer and adjust the jetting to suit.  I then rode it for another 1,000 miles to complete the running-in and that was it.  I never felt the need to do anything else as to my mind the bike's running was just perfect.  After that I only fitted a different saddle and a more old-fashioned looking horn.

Good luck with the bike and enjoy the guaranteed fun that comes with it.

Tom

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BanditRE

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2008, 05:32:13 PM »
Darn Fred, that is one lousy dealer. You should post his name so no one has to go in and find out the hard way. He'd fit right in up here selling the big four Jap bikes. All our local dealers as far as I can tell are crooks with dealer licences.

Well, it sounds like a warranty repair isn't a major concern of yours! It isn't really a major concern of mine either. I figure I have to work on it when the warranty expires anyway, so why not learn now. Mine has a cylinder head leak, fork seal leak, burned out headlight and the front brakes aren't quite right. The dealer offered to do it all, but I settled for him buying the parts and me doing the greasy work. Thats ok with me. While I'm at it the PAV and crankcase breather systems are going away, and I'm fitting a bigger sprocket, new exhaust and tweaking the jetting to richen the old girl up a tad. I think there are some other minor things as well, but I forget. Tinkering is fun, what can I say.

Whatever you decide to do, have fun with your OCD!
2007 Military. It needs some company now the Suzuki has left the stable..........

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2008, 06:46:48 PM »
Yep, he is pretty bad.  You're right, warranty repairs aren't high on my list.  I bought my Stella scooter the same way from the dealer in Minnesota.  He is a top dealer, but I'm not taking the scooter back up there for something I can do in my garage.

The scooter is ancient Vespa technology so it goes right along with hte Bullet.  I find myself actually bragging about not having rollers in my big end bearing.  Bushings are much cooler.

I've decided I'm going to remove the converter, leave the muffler alone, upjet the low speed jet one step and the main by 2 steps for starters and install a fuel filter.  I may replace the carb manifold rubber while its apart just to eliminate a future problem possibility.  That may well be all I ever do to increase the speed of this bike.  I love riding it just as it is.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

deejay

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2008, 06:29:05 PM »
I removed my cat by using a hole saw (for a drill) I forget which size i used, took about 3 minutes to get through it. I've since upgraded to the british exhaust system.

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 06:58:37 PM »
Having finally gotten the converter out of mine I can say without question, a hole saw like you used is the answer.  The welds holding the thing in there are pretty good and took a fair amount of grinding.

All I have done so far is to remove the PAV and the converter, and do a slight upjet on the main and pilot.  Nothing radical.  The bike runs very well.  I am super pleased with how it runs. 

When I break in an engine (I've done it many times on a wide variety of bikes) my main concern is heat.  Heat is the enemy.  That's true for both two and four stroke engine, whether running on the salt flats or plonking around getting groceries.

If the engine acts, feels or smells like it's getting hot, I stop and let it cool down.  Since the warmest temperature we have had since I got the bike is 40, and that was the day I picked it up, there really hasn't been any problem with heat.  The engine runs happily at a variety of speeds.  My plan is to have the first 1000 miles on it before Spring gets here.



2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

mike704

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2008, 01:48:27 PM »
I removed the muffler after about 1500 miles, and replaced it with a straight pipe. It sounded great. I ended up putting a harley style baffel in the pipe to keep flames from shooting out the back. It still sounds loud, deep, and mean
2007 Military (My only vehicle)

fredgold52

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Re: Probably Shouldn't Ask This, But
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2008, 02:23:19 PM »
Mike, I bet that sounds great.  I know I would like to do that also, but if I did, "She who runs the house" would have me sleeping in the garage.

BTW, did you do anything with your jetting to accomodate the pipe?
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way