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Author Topic: C5 conical air filter  (Read 3174 times)

shappers

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C5 conical air filter
« on: October 12, 2010, 10:21:33 PM »
Hi y'all, made this about 2000 miles ago. Works a treat.

Shappers

r80rt

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 10:43:50 PM »
That is great, where did you find the filter? More details please.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 10:47:39 PM by r80rt »
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Roger

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 11:14:58 PM »
And enough room for a can of "spare tire"  ;D

gashousegorilla

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 11:23:18 PM »
Great idea shappers!  Great job! I was thinking of that after seeing Ducatiscotty's post.
How does the bike run?  What kind of exhaust are you using?  r80rt, that looks like a K&N knock off you could get for about 10-15 bucks apiece from somewhere like partsnmore.com or Z1 enterprizes. I've used them before,there petty good.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

r80rt

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 11:51:07 PM »
Yeah I've used them, I want to know the exact size.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 12:45:31 AM »
Very nicely done!  I like that it maintains the stock air hose from filter to throttle body, that keeps the air volume up and the turbulence down with rain protection for the filter to boot!

Yes, details on the filter you used please.  I gotta learn to weld.

Scott

gashousegorilla

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 02:22:07 AM »
Very nicely done!  I like that it maintains the stock air hose from filter to throttle body, that keeps the air volume up and the turbulence down with rain protection for the filter to boot!

Yes, details on the filter you used please.  I gotta learn to weld.

Scott
How about a steel or PVC flange, bolted through the box, some permatex or foam sealent underneath it. With a pub coming off it to attach the pod?
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

rajithcherian

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 11:15:43 AM »
Sorry to say this here are some of the problems you might face
1. Now the crank breather and PAV is getting dirty air. Think about what will happen if dust/water gets into the crank case.
2. Since you have retained the original hose the free flow nature of K&N will some what be negated due to the length of the hose and also its bent.
3. The air scope behind the air box is located very close to the open arch of the wheel and it will pick up water.
4. When the crank gets hot oil vapors come out from the crank breather and it WILL clog your filter.

Following is what I recommend:

Before everything you need to remove the oval tool. Three nuts from the inside to get proper access.

1. First you need to disconnect the plumbing work between the airbox and the throttle body. And this is the rubber tube I was talking abt.
2. K&N wont directly fit into the throttle body and I wont recommend it even if you can coz in that position the filter will be exposed to all the elements esp. water. You dont water to get in, do you?
3. So take this rubber tube/pipe and retain the side which goes into the throttle boddy and take abt 4 inch from that side and cut-off the remaining. Actually the length is upto you just see the filter is place neatly just below the "tilt sensor" under the seat. If you can find a better place please do so.
4. Fix the air-filter to one end of the tube and the other end to the throttle body. Secure the throttle body side with the ring lock privided in along with the filter.
5. Make sure the filter does not move arnd much. Use plastic tags if required.

The place I have choosen will be relatively dust free and water free than the airbox itself. If you dont believe ride on a dusty piece of road with your current setup and check. Now as for my setup I need to take care while only while washing her.

I just completed a 1000km/620mi trip. K&N performed really well.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 07:19:01 PM »
1. Now the crank breather and PAV is getting dirty air. Think about what will happen if dust/water gets into the crank case.
Yup, we'd need to get a breather for the crankcase but K&N has those too.

2. Since you have retained the original hose the free flow nature of K&N will some what be negated due to the length of the hose and also its bent.
Yes, but I'm not interested in the free flow aspect so much as getting rid of the holes by the hinge in the air box that are letting dust into the clean air stream.

3. The air scope behind the air box is located very close to the open arch of the wheel and it will pick up water.
No more than it did stock.  Plus, an oiled air filter will shed more water than a paper element.

4. When the crank gets hot oil vapors come out from the crank breather and it WILL clog your filter.
With a separate K&N breather this is not a concern.  Also, the cone filter is covered in oil.  A few fumes or even some splash are not likely to foul it.

I like your idea of using a short length of hose with the filter set farther back.  More volume, more length to get flow with less turbulence.  Though I think exposure to the elements is minmal while riding since it's all under your thigh it is still a good idea to provide protection if you can, and it's definitely better when parked leaning over on the side stand.

That said, I'm looking at this for two major reasons:
1) Will the bike run well with a K&N bolted right to the throttle body?  The original poster never responded with more than the first impressions and I'm curious.  $40 for the experiment seems worthwhile to me.
2) I want an alternative to the stock setup since I can see holes in the hinge of the air box and I know dust can get into the clean air flow.

Scott

rajithcherian

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 05:14:17 AM »
I like your idea of using a short length of hose with the filter set farther back.  More volume, more length to get flow with less turbulence. 

C5 has a MAP sensor not a MAF. MAP is not affected by turbulence.

That said, I'm looking at this for two major reasons:
1) Will the bike run well with a K&N bolted right to the throttle body?  The original poster never responded with more than the first impressions and I'm curious.  $40 for the experiment seems worthwhile to me.
2) I want an alternative to the stock setup since I can see holes in the hinge of the air box and I know dust can get into the clean air flow.
Scott

As for the 1st point the bike will run better provided u have a Free flow exhaust.

shappers

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 10:12:57 AM »
Hi y'all sorry for the delay in replying.  The filter is a straight universal type from my local parts place and has 2in inlet,  2in top dia 3in base dia and is 2.625in long.  The closest K&N appears to RC-2500.

The adapter was made from a bit of 1.5 steel sheet I had in the "might be useful one day" box.  I removed the tool box and found the tube up to the throttle body ended with a substantial round flange.  I can't remember the diameter but must be around 3in to 3.25in I just cut my piece the diameter but I had to trim it to fit inside the toolbox.

I next formed the tube from another bit of sheet round a bit of 2in bar from the same box, a bit lucky that.  With that poked into the air filter it was offered up to see how it might fit.  A felt tip marker pen drawn on the tube gave the angle needed for the base to clear the tool box and for the lock on the lid to fit inside and miss the filter.

The tube was cut and was used as a template to draw the resulting elipse on the flange piece.  This was drilled and filed to a reasonable fit with the stub.  The two pieces were then cleaned and tinned  with electrical solder and joined together using a 35W soldering iron using plenty flux.

The filter was now fitted to the adapter and offered up to the toolbox and the screw holes marked off.  Clearance holes were drilled and a gasket made from a bit of gasket sheet from the box and the whole lot reassembled.  Not bad for a days work.

Cheers, Shappers.



Sub

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 05:43:55 PM »
Cool mod - where did you guys come from?! We've been waiting for some reports of air box changes, and here we get a couple in just a few days! :)

Can you guys comment on any rough running, or side effects of the mod? My experience with exhaust changes made the bike run rough.

shappers

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 06:50:52 PM »
Hi Raj, in response to your points, no sign of any of them.

Cheers, Roger


Sub

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 03:22:16 PM »
Scott, any luck yet?!

ScooterBob

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 11:55:22 AM »
Sorry - I HAVE to call "Bravo Sierra" on this .......

"C5 has a MAP sensor not a MAF. MAP is not affected by turbulence."

The reason is that the MAF (Mass Air Flow measures the difference in temperature of two wires in the intake stream - one of which is heated. Turbulence does not DIRECTLY affect the sensors reading as all it does is gets warmer or cooler (varies resistance) due to the air flow over it. The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor is usually a membrane that is deflected DIRECTLY by the pressure in the manifold against a set pressure ON that membrane - turbulence in the intake makes them quake like a drum head, therefore upsetting the mixture.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2010, 11:59:55 AM »
I'm totally slacking.  I'm between jobs for a week and on vacation, I'll get back on tis when I get home.

Bob, all the looking around the web I did said that MAP is less sensitive than MAF, so much so that it's often preferred for performance applications where MAF falls short.  That said, it's all theoretical right now and I'm sure individual application can vary which is why we just need to mount one of these up for a while and see what happens.  As soon as I'm done with vacation....  ;)

Scott

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2010, 02:20:31 PM »
I love the inventiveness and the willingness to experiment for better or worse. I would also like Scotty to explain the word "vacation", it is not a word that either Scooter Bob or I  am familiar with.

FYI - We also have put together a low restriction air filter. For sale soon

Sub

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2010, 03:17:54 PM »
I love the inventiveness and the willingness to experiment for better or worse. I would also like Scotty to explain the word "vacation", it is not a word that either Scooter Bob or I  am familiar with.

FYI - We also have put together a low restriction air filter. For sale soon

Kevin, what will it look like?

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2010, 03:45:26 PM »
Direct replacement for the OEM

prof_stack

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2010, 05:20:58 PM »
Direct replacement for the OEM

Sounds great!  Another way to spend money!!   :D

How will a low-restriction air filter jibe with the upswept or EFI silencers, compared to the stock torpedo?
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2010, 06:05:49 PM »
The map on the UCE bikes is pretty wide, we have tried one and no  problem

Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2010, 03:13:26 AM »
Vacation - Quitting one job and getting another, realizing that your wife is right and you should take a week off between the two because you don't want to take the toxic attitude with you from the old to the new, not having any money but saying, "Screw it, let's just credit card it because I need to flush 2 1/2 years of professional poison out of my system."

My bank statement says I can't afford this but my soul says I can't afford not to.  The last time I took more than a day off to go away and wasn't seeing family was 5 years ago for my honeymoon.  Oh, and my wife deserves this more than I ever will, she's the best.

Scott

Sub

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2010, 05:10:04 PM »
The map on the UCE bikes is pretty wide, we have tried one and no  problem

Kevin, did you also try the air filter with a open pipe like your megaphone (or an open pipe with the stock airbox)? I experienced a lot of running problems with the RE megaphone installed (stock airbox). I had to take it off and put on the more restrictive EFI and 90% of my idling, stalling and hiccup problems immediately went away.

shappers

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2010, 05:25:07 PM »
Hi prof thats the set up I have. The Watsonian curly whirly. No problems. See the link.

http://www.royal-enfield.com/silencers.html

Cheers, Shappers.

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2010, 05:37:15 PM »
Hi prof thats the set up I have. The Watsonian curly whirly. No problems. See the link.

http://www.royal-enfield.com/silencers.html

Cheers, Shappers.


Interestingly none of them are approved for road use. I guess they make more noise than your neighbors can handle. 

ScooterBob

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2010, 08:11:10 PM »
Kevin, did you also try the air filter with a open pipe like your megaphone (or an open pipe with the stock airbox)? I experienced a lot of running problems with the RE megaphone installed (stock airbox). I had to take it off and put on the more restrictive EFI and 90% of my idling, stalling and hiccup problems immediately went away.

Crash Test Dummy has the Meggy with the stock air intake on it ...... Runs like a minx .....
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2010, 03:53:58 AM »
Back from vacation, a huge success!  While away I talked my wife into letting me feed my 10 month old son pickles, bacon, and the best poutine in Vancouver.  Now back to motorcycle projects...

Scott

prof_stack

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2010, 02:30:46 AM »
Today I picked up the upswept muffler from the Seattle dealer and will put it on this weekend.

So I got to wondering about the the upcoming low-restriction air filter.  If the EFI mapping is as wide as stated, what will be the advantage(s) of going with the new air filter? 

Heh, history is repeating itself here.  I did about the same upgrade stuff to my '78 SR500 (the first year it came to the US), also black.  Thankfully, the upswept muffler is less noisy than the White Brothers Supertrapp pipe I used.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2010, 02:38:57 AM »
Yup, less restriction at either end means more air flow means more power.  If the map can provide enough fuel you'll be good.  If you don't like the exposed filter thing there are two filters from K&N that can should fit in the stock spot, I'll dig up the part numbers later.  And Bob mentioned a more free flow filter coming soon from CMW.

Scott

douglasmoto

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2011, 10:51:59 PM »
You guys might be interested in what I posted here:
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,7099.60.html

Art
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SSR

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2011, 08:36:22 PM »
There is one filter which would fit in OEM filters place is K&N E0900. Its a bit wider then stock and you have to use the filter plate from CI bullets filter assembly.

Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2011, 11:29:02 AM »
Agent X    Sorry I have no idea.
Scot    Thanks for your reply   I got away from this thread for a few weeks and didn't get back to it until today.   Some life happened in between I guess.    Just a thought about the plastic air box sealing upgrades.  It seems to me that someone earlier suggested this might fix the poor sealing of the air filter endplates itsetlf:  I don't think this would be the case.  It would only stop outside air from getting sucked direct from the higes to the intake manifold.  Air slipping though under the rubber seals on the air filter unit would still happen if the sscrew down didn't tighten and seal.   Regarding the larger diameter (3 1/2 or 3 5/8) fillters , would another metal plate under the stock plate on the same mounting screw 9which might have to be longer ) fit and work?   .  Or what about getting the "lid" meant for the larger  filter unit (whatever machine it was meant for)  So long as the centre hole is the same size, a larger diameter lid to seal to the free end of the filter should work perfectly  and if they make the filter that size, someone must be making the lid.   Is there a rubber washer sealing the centre screw that holds the filter lid in place?  Nigel

SSR

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Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2011, 11:45:31 AM »
@Nigel- have a look at this thread for some answers to your questions. I have posted some pics of the dust cover and the filter plate. http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,9617.msg110694.html#msg110694

With the new filter cover you can not fit any filter bigger then OEM and there is no rubber seal on centre bolt.

You can fit a bigger filter from CI bullets(don't know what these versions were called out there) and use their centre bigger filter plate but then you can not fit the new filter cover.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 11:52:18 AM by SSR »

Re: C5 conical air filter
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2011, 02:47:16 PM »
Thanks for that SSR       I actually got hee by mistake having followed a link for the K & N fiilter testing thread, so if you want to see what prompted my questions, check there.  Thanks, Nigel

r80rt

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 05:06:30 PM by r80rt »
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