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Author Topic: Clutch adjustment on C500  (Read 2570 times)

BRADEY

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Clutch adjustment on C500
« on: October 24, 2010, 12:52:58 PM »
Hi guys, I have noticed slight "hesitation" in my gear shift mechanism as compared to reassuring slotting of gears on a new motorcycle I took test ride of, yesterday.

The gears seems to get "entangled/stuck" especially under emergency braking on my bike. As well, during upshift at times.

Is my clutch out of tune or is it something else. How does one adjust the clutch on the C500 ?

Is there anything else to be adjusted apart from the clutch cable. How tight should the cable be adjusted ?? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:20:15 AM by BRADEY »

t120rbullet

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 01:22:53 PM »
I think you'll find during the "emergency braking" your not letting the shifter lever return all the way to the top before you push it down again resulting in a half a shift into a dead zone or a false neutral. 
Moving the shift lever down a notch might help. Might be a bit harder to get your foot under it for the upshift but it will improve your downshift.

The clutch adjustment is on top of of the primary cover (left side of the bike). You want to adjust it so there's a bit of slop in the lever on the handlebar.
CJ
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qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 01:30:57 PM »
Your owners manual has proper detail on clutch adjustment...
Any other Enfields in New England?

WillW

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 03:21:01 PM »
I have similar experience on my G5 when I have to stop in a hurry without time to shift down through the gears, and others have reported the same. Getting back down to neutral can't be hurried in this situation - slow, positive shifts with pauses between is then the way. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your clutch.
Gear shifting on these bikes is a kind of subtle double nudge, quite positive and can be shifted rapidly - until that emergency stop, when it lets you know it likes everything done in the right order and just so... ;)
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Marrtyn

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 03:42:33 PM »
I think you will find gear shifting will improve with mileage/time.
I have been practicing rapid (sort of) gear changing, (up and down), on my G5. Its surprising how rapid you can change with plenty of practice. Its when you come to an emergency slowdown or stop, panick sets in, then it all goes up in the air -when your main concern is stopping in time.
Safe riding.

prof_stack

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 04:35:38 PM »
Agree with the above comments.  My two Buells, Blast and XB9S, both did the same thing when hot.  They also provided a loud CLACK! when the gears became "unstuck" and then went down to neutral. 

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enfield freddy

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 04:35:53 PM »
the answer in PRINT , please read http://www.realclassic.co.uk/bullet_gearbox_fix.html

note: watsonion squires (uk importer) state that the handbook is INCORRECT
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qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 05:28:17 PM »
Interesting Read.  I wonder how and if any of it applies to the UCE C5.
Much has been written here (including by me) regarding careful and deliberate shifting...
Any other Enfields in New England?

t120rbullet

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 06:16:05 PM »
Interesting Read.  I wonder how and if any of it applies to the UCE C5.
Much has been written here (including by me) regarding careful and deliberate shifting...

None of it other than the part where you have to be positive with your shifting. All the way down and let it come all the way up before your next downshift.
It's the bikes way of training the rider on how it expects to be shifted and it won't be forgiving if any other methods are used.

That article was referring to older bikes had a pushrod that went from the actuator on the right side all the way over to the left side and lifted the pressure plate off the clutch pack. On the UCE the actuator is on the inside of the primary cover (left side) and presses on a bearing that is on the pressure plate. No adjustment other than taking up the cable slack.
CJ
 
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enfield freddy

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 07:18:57 PM »
yes my apologies , sorry i don,r pay with the newer bikes , and that article was for a "shinny one"  ;D ;D
arthritis hurts at my age!

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 10:21:41 AM »
Thanks all.
How does one know if the cable is a little too slack on the C5.
And how much should it be tightened.

WillW

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 11:42:14 AM »
Just leave a couple of mm slack at the (handlebar) lever.
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singhg5

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 04:01:31 PM »
Thanks all.
How does one know if the cable is a little too slack on the C5.
And how much should it be tightened.

BRADEY:

Sat Sree Akaal.   First - Lube your clutch cable.  Then do adjustment.
 
1.  I have heard, and that is what I do - adjust the clutch cable when engine is hot after you have taken a short ride on the bike.
2.  Turn the lock and adjuster nuts (picture no.I), to get a play of 3 mm at the handle bar lever (picture no.II).
3.  Tighten the nuts.
4.  Test ride.

There are a few factors that might affect the adjustment.  Since this is wet clutch, the consistency of oil will affect the adjustment, e.g., My clutch works best at 5 mm clutch play - thouth the book recommends 2-3 mm.  Secondly, change your oil frequently, cleaner oil means smoother the clutch and gear functions.  Thirdly, the clutch may need adjustment from time to time due to normal wear and tear or gunk collecting in parts or even temperature changes that affect the fludity of oil.

If the clutch is too loose - The gears will grind when shifted.  You will hear the grinding noise when shifting.  Or gears feel stuck, not easily shifted.

If clutch is too tight - the gears may slip or shift without pulling in clutch lever.

One important tip -  A very small turn of clutch adjusting/lock nuts (1/8 of turn) can affect the clutch function that is noticeable.  After you have adjusted it, gone for a test ride and if you are not satisfied, REadjust and do a micro adjustment by turning BOTH nuts together in the direction you want.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 03:16:14 AM by singhg5 »
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BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 09:39:55 AM »
Hi, I have done what I have been told by you guys. Took the slack out from the clutch cable, and took it for a short ride. Found that the shifting has eased a bit than earlier. Will have to ride a little longer to see whether or not this improvement is for real or just "mental"..........................!!!

Noticed that my clutch now engages very high up on the lever (like it used to be when the bike was new). Almost by the time it is fully released.  

It feels very strange, as I am used to my clutch getting engaged at half released position on my older bike. Is there any way I can correct this on my UCE 500
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 09:49:14 AM by BRADEY »

gashousegorilla

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2010, 12:55:55 PM »
 Yes Bradey, now finish off the adjustment at the lever. Loosen the lock nut, and turn the adjuster in or out. Out to tighten the cable, in to loosen.  It sounds like you might have it in too far? Play with the adjustment at the top, till you get it were you like it. A little at a time, you should be able to feel when the clutch engages and disengages as you pull the lever in and out.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

singhg5

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2010, 04:26:28 PM »
Yes Bradey, now finish off the adjustment at the lever. Loosen the lock nut, and turn the adjuster in or out. Out to tighten the cable, in to loosen.

@GHG -

Does C500 have two places to adjust clutch cable - one at the clutch lever and the other on top of the left crankcase cover ?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 05:32:31 PM by singhg5 »
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qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 05:07:38 PM »
There is a threaded boss on the housing on the Clutch/Crankcase side cover.  The cable end is threaded, there is a nut on each side of the boss to hod it secure, it offers about 3/8 inch of adjustment.
Any other Enfields in New England?

singhg5

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2010, 05:29:49 PM »
There is a threaded boss on the housing on the Clutch/Crankcase side cover.  The cable end is threaded, there is a nut on each side of the boss to hod it secure, it offers about 3/8 inch of adjustment.
quinn:

You have a C5 - are there two places to adjust clutch cable on your bike ?
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qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
Yes,
A threaded end on the Handlebar control and the threaded end on the clutch cover. 

-Q
Any other Enfields in New England?

gashousegorilla

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2010, 06:05:38 PM »
There is a threaded boss on the housing on the Clutch/Crankcase side cover.  The cable end is threaded, there is a nut on each side of the boss to hod it secure, it offers about 3/8 inch of adjustment.
Singh, you have a picture of it posted. Same set up on our C-5's.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 06:24:12 AM »
Sorry but I think my C5 has only one adjustment module, that is on the left crank case cover, I have no threaded adjuster on my lever  :-[ ???

gashousegorilla

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 07:52:28 AM »
 There  is only one spot on the C-5 to adjust. On the left side cover.  I should learn to look before I speak ::) I assumed that there was one at the handle bar control, like every other bike, but there is not. Sorry, too many different bikes in and out of the garage.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 08:37:19 AM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2010, 12:08:28 PM »
Wow, you guys are right!  There is only one adjustment point.  I had to go out to the shop to check it myself.     :o

Sorry to share bad information..... :-X
Any other Enfields in New England?

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2010, 05:13:29 AM »
But the buring question still remains unanswered. Is there any way the clutch engagement position can be changed. Mine now engages at a very high (very close to full release of the clutch lever) position. I would like the clutch to engage when the clutch lever is half released...................Cheers !!

qgolden

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
Will will give a barely qualified answer and say No.  You cannot make that adjustment without leaving a lot of slack in the cable.  The travel distance is within the clutch assembly.

I understand your sentiment, I felt the same way when I first shifted the C5. The grab point was so much different than my Harley's that I thought I would adjust it and make the same change you are looking for.  I could not do so. It is just an entirely different animal.

In a short time I just got used to it, the clutch is so easy to pull it really does not matter.
Any other Enfields in New England?

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 06:29:34 AM »
+1.

And thanks for the reminder.  My clutch was well out of adjustment when I checked it.  Guess I'm still used to my old hydraulic that doesn't need adjustment.

Scott

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
The gear shifting mechanism on my bike seems to be pretty much out of shape, as clutch cable adjustment has not made any difference in the gear shifting. The gear lever seems to get stuck especially when downshifting suddenly, as well as upshifting in some gears.

The problem of gear slippage (gears retruning to a neutral position) on hitting a pot hole or low bump still remains.

The service engineer says, this may call for splitting the engine apart and may still not resolve the issue. Is this guy trying to save himself the trouble by giving such excuses.......................???

singhg5

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2010, 05:33:10 PM »
The problem of gear slippage (gears retruning to a neutral position) on hitting a pot hole or low bump still remains.  The service engineer says, this may call for splitting the engine apart and may still not resolve the issue. Is this guy trying to save himself the trouble by giving such excuses.......................???

Is your bike still under warranty ? If it is, let him open the engine.  May be there is a defective component that needs to be replaced.  When he opens it, ask the dealer that you want to learn and see the parts too.  Take a few pictures.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2010, 05:13:10 AM »
+1.  If it's under warranty they need to fix it or replace it.  If he can't do it or doesn't think he can find the next closest dealer.  Also, some of the worst transmission problems are often the result of very simple adjustments.  Take it in.

Scott

SSR

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2010, 08:45:24 AM »
@Bradey- I have found out the probelm or cause of your problem and I will post the picture of the said part whe I get home.But the sad news is that you will have to get the engine opened up.

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2010, 12:41:36 PM »
Hi SSR,

Is it the CAM Plate assembly in the tranny you are talking about ?? Please do post pictures as early as possible.

SSR

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2010, 06:37:56 PM »
As I had the engine split open today so took the opportunity to study the shifter mechanism. The gearbox on our C5 is quite simple and robust. But in your case you have a problem and I think of only few things to blame which can be resolved for sure.

The pawl cam plate gets locked by a pawl which holds the gear in its position and if the pawl is not holding the pawl cam plate in its position then you will have gear slipping from its slot and getting into false neutral or jump up/down a gear.

So the problem can be due to the damaged pawl and its spring or a damaged pawl cam plate. Thats all to it.  Ask you RE engineer to order few parts  as below

If you have problem only of gear getting out of its position then

Cam plate assembly
Pawl
Pawl spring

If problem with hard gear shifting or not engaging then
Cam plate assembly
3x Selector forks

Best bet would be to get all the listed parts and if needed then use the selector forks.

In second picture, part no 16 is spring and 17 is Pawl.

Third picture
Part no 14.15.16 are selector forks
Part no 17 cam plate



BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2010, 09:27:28 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.

The dilemma is whether it is advisable to split a new engine, especially at the "ill equipped" dealerships here in India....................??

BRADEY

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 08:16:12 AM »
Just to update the Forum Members, my C5 has magically resorted back to the extra smooth gear shifting all by itself (all I did was ran it really hard one day, more like a drag race bike)  ;D

Now I am very happy. You can well understand why I was in dilema whether to "let everything fall in its place" or "go about adjusting everything on the transmission side".

Royal Enfield Bikes are known to go out of sync for no reason and return back to their sweet ways all by themselves. So says my experience with my 7 year old CI engine 350. Lesson learnt don't fix it if it ain't broke......Cheers

singhg5

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Re: Clutch adjustment on C500
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 10:10:36 PM »
Just to update the Forum Members, my C5 has magically resorted back to the extra smooth gear shifting all by itself (all I did was ran it really hard one day, more like a drag race bike)  ;D

Now I am very happy. You can well understand why I was in dilema whether to "let everything fall in its place" or "go about adjusting everything on the transmission side".

Royal Enfield Bikes are known to go out of sync for no reason and return back to their sweet ways all by themselves. So says my experience with my 7 year old CI engine 350. Lesson learnt don't fix it if it ain't broke......Cheers

@Bradey:

So glad to hear that your bike is fixed.  You see the bike has a biofeed back self fixing mechanism that the factory people don't want anyone to know about  ;D  ;D  ;D.  From now on we can call it Royal EnFixTM .

Frankly there have been some situations on my bike that I thought were worse, only to find that they were not.  

Keep on thumping, while we are grounded due to early and bad windy winter  :(.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 10:12:51 PM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
2006 Honda Nighthawk
2009 Royal Enfield Black G5