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Author Topic: Upgrade points plate?  (Read 3384 times)

Blltrdr

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Upgrade points plate?
« on: November 03, 2010, 01:21:06 AM »
I found this points plate that fits Harley Big Twin models 70-E78 and Sportster models 71-E78 on the Dennis Kirk website. Does anyone know if this points plate will fit the Bullet distributor? The plate is $8 w/points/condenser and could be upgraded to Blue Streak points and condenser or many other well made brands. This would be a great upgrade for the Bullet ignition if it does fit. The photo shows the whole kit with advance unit, fasteners etc. but can be purchased separately. I know there are some Harley owners on the forum that just might know the answer to this question so please chime in.

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Ice

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 02:53:13 AM »
I have doubts about the advance unit ,,,the plate,,maybe.
 I will compare bits between my shovel head and my Bullet.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 03:37:15 AM »
I have doubts about the advance unit ,,,the plate,,maybe.
 I will compare bits between my shovel head and my Bullet.

I wasn't looking at using the advance unit it was in the photo as part of a kit. But if the plate is the same diameter to the Bullet plate it would be an inexpensive upgrade if it works. $8 would be peanuts compared to some parts I've tried on my bike. Here is the link that has a fitment guide for the unit: www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=H20220&store=Main&catId=&productId=pH20220&leafCatId=&m
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The Garbone

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 03:59:01 AM »
This thread has my interest...
Gary
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single

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 04:07:24 AM »
I am also interested but clueless.I want it to work,tho....................

Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 04:23:06 AM »
This all started from this post : www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,5021.0.html

I guess it would be easy enough to make a points plate and mount the Chev/Harley point set but if this $8 setup I found works it would save plenty of time.
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oldsalt

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 04:30:27 AM »
I believe the HD condenser would be an issue.  Although the voltage is the same between the two applications the coils are quite different.  The HD of thoes years used a coil with a "double wound" secondary.  The 'tuned' value of the condenser would most likely be slightly difference if max. available voltage were expected from the stock RE coil.

By the way, what is wrong with the stock RE set-up?  
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 04:43:29 AM »
I believe the HD condenser would be an issue.  Although the voltage is the same between the two applications the coils are quite different.  The HD of thoes years used a coil with a "double wound" secondary.  The 'tuned' value of the condenser would most likely be slightly difference if max. available voltage were expected from the stock RE coil.

By the way, what is wrong with the stock RE set-up?  

Quality comes to mind. Did you read the link from the prior post to yours Oldsalt?
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 07:31:31 AM »
IMHO there is nothing wrong with the stock R.E. ignition it still works and works well, often times with less trouble than some aftermarket electronic ignition systems.

R.E. Factory points are certainly up to the task at hand.

 H-D used the Delco/ Chevy straight 6 points. Those points were also used in whole host of commercial, industrial, marine and agricultural engines.

 I believe some folks would like the option to run them because they are very common and also available in the blue streak brand (which has quality and features not present in generic points)


 I suspect that the automotive type coils used on our Bullets would play well with the Chevy condenser but i've no idea as to what the capacitance of the R.E and H-D/ Chevy condensers would be.

 Perhaps some one with access to electronics test bench would be willing to find out for us?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 07:45:17 AM by Ice »
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 11:34:08 AM »
arthritis hurts at my age!

cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 11:57:29 AM »
Done this allready, but simply made my own plate and fitted Bosch v-dub -mercedes points instead. The chevy 6 points were my first choice were not suited (too large). What is wrong with the the stock points? Availability, and the 2 piece design is a nightmare on the side of the road. Now it's just one spade connector and one screw.There is a pic of this in modifications . I did not try this but, you might be able to just drill and tap the original plate for the bosch points, there may be room.

Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 03:32:59 PM »
Done this allready, but simply made my own plate and fitted Bosch v-dub -mercedes points instead. The chevy 6 points were my first choice were not suited (too large). What is wrong with the the stock points? Availability, and the 2 piece design is a nightmare on the side of the road. Now it's just one spade connector and one screw.There is a pic of this in modifications . I did not try this but, you might be able to just drill and tap the original plate for the bosch points, there may be room.

What condenser did you use? From your last post on your mod it says Chevy 6 or is it Bosch VW? Does it match the RE condenser?
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cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 03:37:18 PM »
I use the bosch condenser, 2+ years now, stock Lucas coil, no problems. Like I said in the above post, it was only after I made the new points plate that I noticed that I probably could have just drilled 2 new holes (one tapped) in the existing plate. It really is that easy.

Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2010, 03:46:25 PM »
I use the bosch condenser, 2+ years now, stock Lucas coil, no problems. Like I said in the above post, it was only after I made the new points plate that I noticed that I probably could have just drilled 2 new holes (one tapped) in the existing plate. It really is that easy.

Do you have the part numbers for the parts you used? If so I'll go by a set today and give it a shot, I have a couple extra plates. In your photo you had to relocate the pivot pin did you use a screw?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 04:25:34 PM by Blltrdr »
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Vince

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2010, 04:39:55 PM »
     In 10 years as a dealer I have had over 600 different bikes through the shop. I can remember only one actual need to replace a set of points.  Co-incidentally it was just after the customer worked on the bike... Properly set up, the stock system is reliable and requires only a little maintenance. The economy pointless ignition from our host is a great upgrade if you want no maintenance at all, but it does cost more than points. With a different set of points you still have points.
     Now, the Chevy or HD points will have different dimensions. This may affect dwell ( the amount of time the points are open). This may make no difference in running, or it may run better or worse. The cheap pointless ignition works great and aids starting and running at all RPM.
     This proposed change of point seems like some work and some money for no particular advantage.
     

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »
But,  but,,  we must tinker with a perfectly fine working system..  Just because its there....     
 :P
Gary
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 05:48:20 PM »
Vince as a dealer you probably have a few sets of points laying around for customer maintenance. I would think that changing the points with ones that were available anywhere you went and of a quality that RE will never match would be great and be cheaper considering the price of the RE point sets and the shipping costs also. Every set I have ever bought has some kind of irregularity to it I have even had to swap the pieces out and added an extra bakelite washer under the pivot so everything aligned well. A quality American one piece set will never have those issues. I think I'm just tired of spending my hard earned money on crap and have I bought plenty of parts over the years for my Bullet that surely fell into that category.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 04:51:31 AM by Blltrdr »
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cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »
 Vince,  you must lead a charmed life. 600 bikes 10 years 1 set of points. Wow, tell me why we need electronic ignition again?  I can't speak to the dwell thing, I thought that was set with the cams duration and point gap. It's just a personal preference. I will post the part numbers this evening.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 08:11:46 PM »
     
But,  but,,  we must tinker with a perfectly fine working system..  Just because its there....     
 :P

     This is what keeps me in business...
     Guys, I did say "Properly set up" and "a little maintenance". The system isn't perfect. It does require some set up. Maintenance consists of checking and adjusting, lubing the advance arm pivots and the points cam, and keeping the battery charged. I have replaced more than one set, but mostly because the customer insisted and/or screwed up basic maintenance. Certainly, sometimes the points need attention. That is not the issue. It is simply my position that if you are going to take the time, trouble, and expense of changing things, why not make a real improvement and get the electronic system to eliminate them entirely?
     I have had bikes in with different points grafted from other bikes or cars. In most instances I have had to make adjustment in the gap to be able to bring it into time. Smaller gap = less dwell. If you have to adjust the gap at, or outside spec to be able to time it, there will be some affect on running. Good or bad, I don't know. But the engineering has already been done and it works. If you get your biking pleasure from working and "improving/correcting", great! I enjoy that also. But over the years I have found that when stuff works, my improvements are often not worth the investment of time and money. This frees up a lot of riding time.

cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 08:15:37 PM »
Why,Oh,Why, would I have bought this bike if I didn't want to tinker?  ;) Ok, here's the part. Napa Echlin# R795035. That's 66 vw points. I also used the condenser because it had the forked lug, making it easier to assemble. If you use the condenser that would be another tapped hole for the clip. And these babies are made right here in the USA. As an aside, this was strictly a convenience mod in accordance with my "Can I do it drunk?" law of bike maintenance.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 12:20:10 AM by cyrusb »

oldsalt

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 04:44:36 AM »
Quality comes to mind. Did you read the link from the prior post to yours Oldsalt?

Nope.  However, If quality of components is an issue, then quality of results should also be an issue. 

Changeing the points will surely affect dwell unless the rub blocks [and some other geometry] are identical.  So it is certain that the 'normal' point opening used with the RE points would have to be altered to accomodate. 

I was pointing out that the coils, HD and RE, are different.  VW or a Chevy 6 ignition coils are also different.  It is not easy. unless a person is really into radio theory, to calculate resonate circuit voltages.  But it is certain that useing a condensor optimal for a six cylinder engine coil, or a double wound secondary HD coil, will require a leap of faith that the permeability of the coil's iron core, inductance of the coil, the reactive inductance, reactive capacitance, and resultant resonate frequency are the same as the RE coil.  I'm betting against it.  Therefore my money would be on a condensor, regardless of its preceived quality, that was selected by engineers to do service with a particular coil for an engine operating in a particular RPM range.  The strength of the spark at the plug can be significanly degraded by the use of a inappropriate condensor uf rating.

Condensors rarely go bad.  I wonder how many Vince has replaced, because they TESTED bad?  I'm thinking it would be about the same number as the sets of RE points that went bad. 
 
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 11:54:53 PM »
Today I purchased a set of Blue Streak VW points for my conversion, part # GB4173XP.

Here is some more information about this part:

* 99% pure tungsten is used to make our contact sets, providing a longer service life.
* A stainless steel spring is used to maintain correct tension on the contacts and eliminate corrosion build up.
* A copper shunt is used to conduct the current flow providing less resistance to the circuit.
* A self lubricating brass bushing is used to maintain point alignment and 100% surface contact.
* A special blend of nylon is used to make the rubbing block which is held to the movable arm with 4 rivets.
* All of these features add up to the longest lasting and best performing contact point sets in the marketplace.

Here is photo comparing the BS to a set of Bosch. The Bosch points cost more! Why?

The VW points come built with a pivot pin so two holes is all it takes to mount it, one for the pivot and one for the slot adjuster. I am going to retain my stock condenser because I have 4 or 5 laying around. I have two extra point plates and see no real problem changing over to this new set. I will post again once I've completed the mod. I'm excited that I will never have to mail order another points set and will be able to walk into any auto parts store and buy the part if it ever fails. This part is made in the USA and is by many user accounts the best made points you can purchase. Cyrusb has stated he's had his in for two years no problems which gives me the utmost confidence this mod will work flawlessly.
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Lahti35

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 01:35:34 AM »

Here is some more information about this part:

* 99% pure tungsten is used to make our contact sets, providing a longer service life.
* A stainless steel spring is used to maintain correct tension on the contacts and eliminate corrosion build up.
* A copper shunt is used to conduct the current flow providing less resistance to the circuit.
* A self lubricating brass bushing is used to maintain point alignment and 100% surface contact.
* A special blend of nylon is used to make the rubbing block which is held to the movable arm with 4 rivets.
* All of these features add up to the longest lasting and best performing contact point sets in the marketplace.

Here is photo comparing the BS to a set of Bosch. The Bosch points cost more! Why?


How much stock do you have in Blue Streak industries??? :D :D :D

Seriously, thats like the Caddy of all points! Please post pics when you get your new rig set up, i'm curious about doing this for my ride.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 02:45:44 AM »
How much stock do you have in Blue Streak industries??? :D :D :D

Seriously, thats like the Caddy of all points! Please post pics when you get your new rig set up, i'm curious about doing this for my ride.

 :D LOL....Blue Streak stock, actually the company is Standard Motor Products and I should take a look at their stock.
Yesterday my neighbor installed a set of Blue Streak points in his '50 Chevy truck and was very impressed with quality when he "showed off" his point set to me. Today I did some research for my project then went to my local parts store and bought myself a set. Will post as soon as I'm done and satisfied with the performance.
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Ice

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
Blue Streak is indeed good kit.
 The copper conductor strap and the lubricant wick are features not found on most lesser brands.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 10:14:09 AM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 12:10:15 PM »
Good stuff, 'Ya know, even if it was unsatisfactory, so what, you drilled 2 holes, whats the big deal? I would like to point out that the Bosch blue coil that's popular for bullets is also a "car" coil. Has it been carefully matched to the stock condenser? We are lighting a spark plug, not generating microwaves. This 100 year old system is very forgiving. A really bad match will make itself known through lousy running or toasted points. I've had neither. Have fun.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 01:54:08 PM »
`I have had 2 condensers fail.Not on the RE.One was old the other was new.It is rare,obviously.I have seen this refit of currently available parts to antiques done successfully before,it is a personal call.I like the idea of local availability,if it will work as well or better,whatever it is.I have to say,on the other hand,I have had zero trouble with the points or condenser on Jolly,have at least 5000 miles on both.I have done some filing and polishing or maintenance and adjusting but they have been ok.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2010, 03:41:51 PM »
cyrusb & single

Gotta agree with you guys; an ignition system utilizing an air gap transformer [coil] and a condenser is a really forgiving set-up.  They are so good that I refuse to use electronic unless it is forced upon me by cercumstances.  But it is true that a particular coil requires a condenser of a certain value if it is to function optimally.  The alternative is to accept the fact that mismatched components can easily reduce the secondary voltage by 25% by going from, say, .22uf to a .47uf condenser.  Use the stock pair, or mismatch and hope for acceptable performance, or get out the 'basic radio equation' formulas to ascertain the resonate frequency of the coil and an acceptable condenser value.   
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2010, 06:28:41 PM »
I understand your statement re. RF frequencey and capacitance..I have to agree more in your statement re. the desired voltage drop that is required to ignite the mixture...Of course if we run non resistance spark plugs we have strong enough EMP of the oscillator  to register on AM radio...Hey is this cleared with the FCC..cheers
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 02:32:26 PM »
Just use a magneto, solid copper UNsheilded plug wire and non resistor plug to annoy everyone in a 200 foot radius where ever you go. BS points-Cool set up...easy mod, cheap, accessible, plentiful, better quality, no brainer.   Have to look into it for yamahammer sometime.  TX Bltrdr
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 12:46:37 AM »
:D LOL....Blue Streak stock, actually the company is Standard Motor Products and I should take a look at their stock.

The advanced points on my Russian Ural are Standard. I believe the factory is on Long Island, NY. The ones I have are for a VW bug 70's vintage. Good points so far.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 10:44:59 PM »
Today I purchased a set of Blue Streak VW points for my conversion, part # GB4173XP.

Here is some more information about this part:

* 99% pure tungsten is used to make our contact sets, providing a longer service life.
* A stainless steel spring is used to maintain correct tension on the contacts and eliminate corrosion build up.
* A copper shunt is used to conduct the current flow providing less resistance to the circuit.
* A self lubricating brass bushing is used to maintain point alignment and 100% surface contact.
* A special blend of nylon is used to make the rubbing block which is held to the movable arm with 4 rivets.
* All of these features add up to the longest lasting and best performing contact point sets in the marketplace.

Here is photo comparing the BS to a set of Bosch. The Bosch points cost more! Why?

The VW points come built with a pivot pin so two holes is all it takes to mount it, one for the pivot and one for the slot adjuster. I am going to retain my stock condenser because I have 4 or 5 laying around. I have two extra point plates and see no real problem changing over to this new set. I will post again once I've completed the mod. I'm excited that I will never have to mail order another points set and will be able to walk into any auto parts store and buy the part if it ever fails. This part is made in the USA and is by many user accounts the best made points you can purchase. Cyrusb has stated he's had his in for two years no problems which gives me the utmost confidence this mod will work flawlessly.

Well it has been along time since I posted anything on my points upgrade. Well I finally got around to installing the Blue Streak points. I used an extra stock backing plate. I had to flatten the tab that the wires go to. I was able to use the small hole closest to the center of the tab that I flattened. I had to drill a hole for the set screw for the points and used a self taping screw from a new construction light box ground. I had to slightly modify the points frame so it would not interfere with the backing plate screw. I will try and rectify this modification by sourcing a bit shorter point set. Since I already sourced the set I had I wanted to put it to use. Well it seems to work great. The tick over seems steady and a lot better than the stock points. The quality of the Blue Streak points is leaps and bound better than the stock set. I reused the stock condenser since I retained the stock backing plate. I will take the bike out and see how well this setup works. My main objective is to be able to purchase a new set of quality points anywhere without having to rely on a poor manufactured set that I have to have mailed to my house.
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D the D

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2013, 02:02:19 AM »
Really!  If you want to upgrade go EI. If you're just worried about availability, order a lifetime supply.
VW points will work.  Actually, just about any car points will work.  It's just softening the blow of the points opening, not tuned to anything.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2013, 03:11:20 AM »
  It's just softening the blow of the points opening, not tuned to anything.

Really!! You have obviously missed my point. And what does the statement above mean, inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2013, 03:20:11 AM »
Well I just got back from my test ride @ 24 deg. All I can say is, layer, layer, layer. Well I am very surprised at the way the bike performs. I was thinking it would be a marginal benefit performance wise. Well I was wrong! The bike pulls like a bull now. Shifting into 4th at 50 which I could not achieve before. I was usually in 4th shifting into 5th at 50. Well I will keep an eye on these performance findings and see if there is any change good or bad.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2013, 06:53:00 AM »
Really!! You have obviously missed my point. And what does the statement above mean, inquiring minds want to know.

Sorry, my fingers didn't type what my brain was thinking.
VW condensers will work.  What I meant by softening the blow is that the condenser is there to absorb the current, soak it up, so that you don't get arcing across the points which eats up the contacts fast.  No, that's not a good technical description but it sort of explains it.

And yes, I don't see the point of replacing the points with HD or some car points.  The only reasonable things that come to mind are availability or quality.  Either of these is most readily solved by EI.  Auto manufacturers didn't change over because EI was cheaper to manufacture.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2013, 07:20:23 AM »
I have an expensive Boyer unit collecting dust in a bucket somewhere in my garage. Had nothing but problems with it so I switched back to points. When you come across three different instructions on how to set it up and then you call the company in England to clarify and they aren't quite sure themselves it makes you wonder why you spent so much for something that is so aggravating. Points are simple! I think a lot of people install EI's because they are just not sure of themselves adjusting points and timing or just don't see it as being fun to do so. As I see it part of the fun of owning my Bullet is making all the adjustments to maintain it. To each his own.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2013, 04:00:55 PM »
Go with the RE EI.  It's simple, no fussing, install it in 10 minutes or less, set the timing, you be done until you wear the distributor out!
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2013, 04:23:53 PM »
Go with the RE EI.  It's simple, no fussing, install it in 10 minutes or less, set the timing, you be done until you wear the distributor out!

You obviously have your own agenda and have not read my posts. Our philosophies differ somewhat. I see point sets as reliable and perfect for this machine. You see EI as the solution to something that has worked perfectly fine longer than each of us have been alive. I am a follower of K.I.S.S. and no I'm not talking rock band. Like I mentioned in my previous post, "To each his own". I'm happy for you and your EI system. If it makes you happy that is all that matters.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2013, 04:37:32 PM »
Nothing wrong with EI, it's been the industry standard for a long time..I still have the original points with 11k on my Enfield..I picked up another set from our sponsor for 10 bucks (4 years ago)...All I ever done is put a fine file to it once a year and a drop of oil on the felt for the rubber block..The Bike usually starts by the third kick which is dependent on whether or not I did my sequences correctly...It's was always my understanding that points ignition systems could even fire up with substandard battery voltage... I've replaced the points in my old Lincoln with a 460 , Buick century 350cc  and dodge slant six...They all ran like a charm like the Enfield.... 8)
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2013, 05:44:16 PM »
If your Boyer is just sitting in a bucket, I'd be happy to take it off of your hands.   :)

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »
If your Boyer is just sitting in a bucket, I'd be happy to take it off of your hands.   :)

Scottie

Actually the use of bucket was for effect. It is nicely put away in a parts drawer wrapped in warm little blanky.

It is the Micro Digital model twin coil for my twin plug head. Motor is disassembled and will eventually get a Fireball makeover. I will probably send the unit back to Boyer for a checkup. They do back there gear and will rebuild or replace as necessary. I have a feeling part of the problem I had with the ignition stemmed from the the Gill coils which came with kit. The online consensus refers to the Gill coils as crap. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 06:03:22 PM by Blltrdr »
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM »
HA HA HA!!!!!! A Boyer saved for a new project!!
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2013, 02:44:33 AM »
--IT MUST BE WINTER--

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2013, 02:55:23 AM »
--IT MUST BE WINTER--

You've been drinking eggnog haven't you! Well officially the winter season will start in a couple weeks and what about all our forum members south of the equator........yeah, summer is just around the corner.  8)
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2013, 02:07:52 PM »
You crack me up Blltrdr.  You've been talking about that Boyer ignition like Satan himself built it with his own 2 demonic hands and lives inside of it.  Then when I politely ask you what you want for it (so I can give a good PURPOSEFUL home on a race bike) and now you have a "project" for it?  LMAO    ;D ;D ;D

C'mon Bro!  Which wagon are riding?  Points or EI?!    ???

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2013, 04:50:46 PM »
Scottie J: I was wondering where this was going.. ???
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »
Scotty as you know anytime you have a motor sitting around you have a potential project. Like I stated in previous posts that I had problems with the unit. Sending it back to Boyer for a look-see is in my best interest. From what I see on there site the Gill coils have been replaced with a single dual coil. And the next go around I might just eliminate the twin plug. I will have to send my head to Ace and see if it can be reworked for the Fireball upgrade. After spending $300+ on this Boyer it is my best interest to have it looked at sell it or keep it. Anyway this is a unit for British singles and I thought you are a twin guy.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2013, 08:56:58 PM »
You can make just about make anything work with anything with the right tools, right knowledge and the right price of course.  ;)   You said it was a twin fire,  I'm sure I could find a way to make it work.   

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2013, 01:51:09 AM »
It's funny how making a comment gets misconstrued. Never did I mention selling or giving away anything. I'm all for getting a bargain when the stars align. Who knows, PM an offer. The ball is in your court now Scotty.  ;)
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2013, 10:39:10 PM »
Just bought a Pertronix 40501 FlameThrower 40,000 volt coil from autoplicity.com for $40.

Coil Wire Attachment    Female/Socket
Coil Style    Canister
Primary Resistance    3.000 ohms
Coil Internal Construction    Oil-filled
Coil Color    Chrome
Maximum Voltage    40,000 V
Turns Ratio    75:1
Secondary Resistance    8.5K ohms
Inductance    11.6 mH
Peak Current    5 amps
Spark Duration    1.5 mS
Mounting Bracket Included    No
Coil Wire Included    No
Ballast Resistor Included    No
Coil Shape    Round
Diameter (in)    2.125 in.
Height (in)    6.000 in.
Quantity    Sold individually.
Notes    For use with the original Pertronix Ignitor ignition. Can also be used with other induction ignition

Pertronix Flame-Thrower 40000 Volt Chrome Ignition Coil is designed for use with any inductive system. This canister coil allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy. It is internally resisted and is oil filled which offers great heat control. This canister coil maximizes energy and reliability over the full rpm range and is backed by 90 days warranty.


http://autoplicity.com/products/98129-pertronix_40501_flame_thrower_40000_volt_chrome_ignition_coil.aspx
The coupon code is 30OFFSHIPPING.

Will review once I get it installed. I would assume it is similar to the Bosch Blue coil. Should work well with my new Blue Streak points.

So visiting a VW forum there were some comparisons between the Pertronix and Bosch Blue. The readings on the Pertronix shows 35 kv cold and 28 kv warm. The Blue coils readings were 17 kv warm and anywhere between 15 & 9 kv warm. I don't know how much this is relevant, but those VW guys are serious about performance enhancements.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 04:39:53 AM by Blltrdr »
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2013, 10:52:14 PM »
Hope it has an internal resistor. Does it say it does?  ERC
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2013, 11:09:09 PM »
Yes it does.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2013, 11:35:11 PM »
Well I can report that since I did that conversion in 2009 but with only 9k miles since then, the original points are still in there. Only 9k but 5 years with no adjustments or fiddling. What I see that may kill them is the oil that makes it's way in there. (which may be good for the rubbing block and advance unit). If you think about it, the points of a single should last longer than a multi cylinder application due to only one contact per revolution. Those blue streaks are probably "The Last Points I'll Ever Own"

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2013, 11:36:39 PM »
Thanks for the update.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2013, 01:23:34 AM »
Well I can report that since I did that conversion in 2009 but with only 9k miles since then, the original points are still in there. Only 9k but 5 years with no adjustments or fiddling. What I see that may kill them is the oil that makes it's way in there. (which may be good for the rubbing block and advance unit).

Drill ya an 1/8th inch hole in the bottom of the cap to let that oil out
 and not build up...           - Mike
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2013, 01:44:33 AM »
Drill ya an 1/8th inch hole in the bottom of the cap to let that oil out
 and not build up...           - Mike
Bingo!  I have to tell you,  the seal is good,  yet oil somehow manages to get in. Part of the charm and anti rust system. I will drill the cap.

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2013, 12:13:41 PM »
Oil....  Oil.....  You mean that crap that sprays itself all over everywhere on my bike?  ???
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2013, 07:52:47 PM »
Any seal will let a tiny amount of oil onto it's face to lube the rubber.  Otherwise it would wear down very quickly.  Some oil inevitably will get by.  As long as it's not turning into Niagara Falls...
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2013, 04:42:20 AM »
We thought of a seal as a controlled leak.

Where a tiny amount of leakage wouldn't hurt anything we designed the seal primarily for long life.  Where any leakage at all could create a problem we went overboard to prevent it.

For example, a exposed shaft getting a slight dampness over time could be sealed with a lip seal if the shaft speed permitted it.

A seal that could allow any oil whatsoever to leak into the bleed air produced by our engine would often be a very expensive specialized static seal with a high air pressure zone between the seal and the compressed bleed air we were supplying.
  This high air pressure zone that would force any oil that tried to leak past the static seal back into the 'wet' area of the engine.  It had its own vent system so if any oil at all got by the static seal it would be vented overboard.

That probably doesn't mean much to some of you but our engines provides the compressed air that is fed into the passenger compartment on commercial aircraft.  It also provides the compressed air to run the Pneumatic Air Conditioner system.

The paying passengers get upset when the airplanes cabin fills with smoke while they are flying at 40,000 feet half way between New York and London.  ;D
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2013, 05:29:40 AM »
...but our engines provides the compressed air that is fed into the passenger compartment on commercial aircraft.  It also provides the compressed air to run the Pneumatic Air Conditioner system.

The paying passengers get upset when the airplanes cabin fills with smoke while they are flying at 40,000 feet half way between New York and London.  ;D

No wonder! A couple of times I've smelt burnt fuel (or something else/oil) in the cabin out of nowhere whilst watching one of those in-flight movies. Kind of scary but then I was like it's cool.  :-\ Sorry about going off-topic, but I learnt a new thing today.  ;)
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2013, 04:56:24 PM »
No wonder! A couple of times I've smelt burnt fuel (or something else/oil) in the cabin out of nowhere whilst watching one of those in-flight movies. Kind of scary but then I was like it's cool.  :-\ Sorry about going off-topic, but I learnt a new thing today.  ;)

You shouldn't.  The air is pulled off in the compressor stages before it ever comes near the fuel.  I'm not an engine guy though, Avionics, so a Powerplants guy can correct me.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2013, 01:01:23 AM »
You are quite correct. :)

The synthetic oils used in gas turbine/jet engines can make a hell of a stink though. :(
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2013, 02:30:19 AM »
It is funny how one member can post about a little oil weeping past there distributor seal and the next thing is all this talk about airplane cabins. Well to get back on topic I have received my new Pertronix coil. I installed it a few hours ago with only one hitch. I didn't buy the mounting bracket 10002 for the coil and had to rework the stock Lucas bracket. Well I have replaced the PVL coil with this new one. The Pertronix is about twice the diameter of the PVL. It ohms at 3.2, the PVL 3.4+ and the stock Lucas measured 3 ohms. Fairly close all the way around. This new Pertronix coil gives a nice blue spark which is better than the PVL or Lucas coils spark. The bike starts better and idles better also. Taking the bike for a spin I notice that the bike pulls well especially in the higher rpm range. I would say it was a worthwhile purchase. Will test it over the next few weeks and post another update. This coil combined with the points plate mod has made a real difference.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2014, 02:13:13 PM »
Question for Blltrdr or any of the other gents who did the Blue Streak points conversion.  When I adjusted my timing this last summer I noticed I am almost to where I can't rotate the points plate any more.  The tip of the cam follower looks to have been worn down quite a bit.  Almost positive these are the original points (bike has 13,000+ miles) so it seemed I was probably due to replace them anyway.

I came upon this thread and decided to pick up a set of Blue Streak points that folks had so many nice things to say about.  Won't install them until Spring or Summer.  You guys talked about modifications to the stock points plate when mounting the Blue Streak points.  Is there any chance one of you guys could post a few pictures of your setup now after the installation?  It would be a nice reference for myself and others who would like to do this.  Thanks  :).

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2014, 12:10:39 AM »
Give me a couple days and I will post a pic.
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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2014, 03:40:34 PM »
Thanks, I'll watch for them.  It's above zero here today, so that is nice.  Spring seems a long way off.