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Author Topic: Upgrade points plate?  (Read 3047 times)

The Garbone

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »
But,  but,,  we must tinker with a perfectly fine working system..  Just because its there....     
 :P
Gary
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 05:48:20 PM »
Vince as a dealer you probably have a few sets of points laying around for customer maintenance. I would think that changing the points with ones that were available anywhere you went and of a quality that RE will never match would be great and be cheaper considering the price of the RE point sets and the shipping costs also. Every set I have ever bought has some kind of irregularity to it I have even had to swap the pieces out and added an extra bakelite washer under the pivot so everything aligned well. A quality American one piece set will never have those issues. I think I'm just tired of spending my hard earned money on crap and have I bought plenty of parts over the years for my Bullet that surely fell into that category.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 04:51:31 AM by Blltrdr »
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cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »
 Vince,  you must lead a charmed life. 600 bikes 10 years 1 set of points. Wow, tell me why we need electronic ignition again?  I can't speak to the dwell thing, I thought that was set with the cams duration and point gap. It's just a personal preference. I will post the part numbers this evening.

Vince

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 08:11:46 PM »
     
But,  but,,  we must tinker with a perfectly fine working system..  Just because its there....     
 :P

     This is what keeps me in business...
     Guys, I did say "Properly set up" and "a little maintenance". The system isn't perfect. It does require some set up. Maintenance consists of checking and adjusting, lubing the advance arm pivots and the points cam, and keeping the battery charged. I have replaced more than one set, but mostly because the customer insisted and/or screwed up basic maintenance. Certainly, sometimes the points need attention. That is not the issue. It is simply my position that if you are going to take the time, trouble, and expense of changing things, why not make a real improvement and get the electronic system to eliminate them entirely?
     I have had bikes in with different points grafted from other bikes or cars. In most instances I have had to make adjustment in the gap to be able to bring it into time. Smaller gap = less dwell. If you have to adjust the gap at, or outside spec to be able to time it, there will be some affect on running. Good or bad, I don't know. But the engineering has already been done and it works. If you get your biking pleasure from working and "improving/correcting", great! I enjoy that also. But over the years I have found that when stuff works, my improvements are often not worth the investment of time and money. This frees up a lot of riding time.

cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 08:15:37 PM »
Why,Oh,Why, would I have bought this bike if I didn't want to tinker?  ;) Ok, here's the part. Napa Echlin# R795035. That's 66 vw points. I also used the condenser because it had the forked lug, making it easier to assemble. If you use the condenser that would be another tapped hole for the clip. And these babies are made right here in the USA. As an aside, this was strictly a convenience mod in accordance with my "Can I do it drunk?" law of bike maintenance.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 12:20:10 AM by cyrusb »

oldsalt

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 04:44:36 AM »
Quality comes to mind. Did you read the link from the prior post to yours Oldsalt?

Nope.  However, If quality of components is an issue, then quality of results should also be an issue. 

Changeing the points will surely affect dwell unless the rub blocks [and some other geometry] are identical.  So it is certain that the 'normal' point opening used with the RE points would have to be altered to accomodate. 

I was pointing out that the coils, HD and RE, are different.  VW or a Chevy 6 ignition coils are also different.  It is not easy. unless a person is really into radio theory, to calculate resonate circuit voltages.  But it is certain that useing a condensor optimal for a six cylinder engine coil, or a double wound secondary HD coil, will require a leap of faith that the permeability of the coil's iron core, inductance of the coil, the reactive inductance, reactive capacitance, and resultant resonate frequency are the same as the RE coil.  I'm betting against it.  Therefore my money would be on a condensor, regardless of its preceived quality, that was selected by engineers to do service with a particular coil for an engine operating in a particular RPM range.  The strength of the spark at the plug can be significanly degraded by the use of a inappropriate condensor uf rating.

Condensors rarely go bad.  I wonder how many Vince has replaced, because they TESTED bad?  I'm thinking it would be about the same number as the sets of RE points that went bad. 
 
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 11:54:53 PM »
Today I purchased a set of Blue Streak VW points for my conversion, part # GB4173XP.

Here is some more information about this part:

* 99% pure tungsten is used to make our contact sets, providing a longer service life.
* A stainless steel spring is used to maintain correct tension on the contacts and eliminate corrosion build up.
* A copper shunt is used to conduct the current flow providing less resistance to the circuit.
* A self lubricating brass bushing is used to maintain point alignment and 100% surface contact.
* A special blend of nylon is used to make the rubbing block which is held to the movable arm with 4 rivets.
* All of these features add up to the longest lasting and best performing contact point sets in the marketplace.

Here is photo comparing the BS to a set of Bosch. The Bosch points cost more! Why?

The VW points come built with a pivot pin so two holes is all it takes to mount it, one for the pivot and one for the slot adjuster. I am going to retain my stock condenser because I have 4 or 5 laying around. I have two extra point plates and see no real problem changing over to this new set. I will post again once I've completed the mod. I'm excited that I will never have to mail order another points set and will be able to walk into any auto parts store and buy the part if it ever fails. This part is made in the USA and is by many user accounts the best made points you can purchase. Cyrusb has stated he's had his in for two years no problems which gives me the utmost confidence this mod will work flawlessly.
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Lahti35

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 01:35:34 AM »

Here is some more information about this part:

* 99% pure tungsten is used to make our contact sets, providing a longer service life.
* A stainless steel spring is used to maintain correct tension on the contacts and eliminate corrosion build up.
* A copper shunt is used to conduct the current flow providing less resistance to the circuit.
* A self lubricating brass bushing is used to maintain point alignment and 100% surface contact.
* A special blend of nylon is used to make the rubbing block which is held to the movable arm with 4 rivets.
* All of these features add up to the longest lasting and best performing contact point sets in the marketplace.

Here is photo comparing the BS to a set of Bosch. The Bosch points cost more! Why?


How much stock do you have in Blue Streak industries??? :D :D :D

Seriously, thats like the Caddy of all points! Please post pics when you get your new rig set up, i'm curious about doing this for my ride.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 02:45:44 AM »
How much stock do you have in Blue Streak industries??? :D :D :D

Seriously, thats like the Caddy of all points! Please post pics when you get your new rig set up, i'm curious about doing this for my ride.

 :D LOL....Blue Streak stock, actually the company is Standard Motor Products and I should take a look at their stock.
Yesterday my neighbor installed a set of Blue Streak points in his '50 Chevy truck and was very impressed with quality when he "showed off" his point set to me. Today I did some research for my project then went to my local parts store and bought myself a set. Will post as soon as I'm done and satisfied with the performance.
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Ice

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
Blue Streak is indeed good kit.
 The copper conductor strap and the lubricant wick are features not found on most lesser brands.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 10:14:09 AM by Ice »
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cyrusb

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 12:10:15 PM »
Good stuff, 'Ya know, even if it was unsatisfactory, so what, you drilled 2 holes, whats the big deal? I would like to point out that the Bosch blue coil that's popular for bullets is also a "car" coil. Has it been carefully matched to the stock condenser? We are lighting a spark plug, not generating microwaves. This 100 year old system is very forgiving. A really bad match will make itself known through lousy running or toasted points. I've had neither. Have fun.

single

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 01:54:08 PM »
`I have had 2 condensers fail.Not on the RE.One was old the other was new.It is rare,obviously.I have seen this refit of currently available parts to antiques done successfully before,it is a personal call.I like the idea of local availability,if it will work as well or better,whatever it is.I have to say,on the other hand,I have had zero trouble with the points or condenser on Jolly,have at least 5000 miles on both.I have done some filing and polishing or maintenance and adjusting but they have been ok.

oldsalt

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2010, 03:41:51 PM »
cyrusb & single

Gotta agree with you guys; an ignition system utilizing an air gap transformer [coil] and a condenser is a really forgiving set-up.  They are so good that I refuse to use electronic unless it is forced upon me by cercumstances.  But it is true that a particular coil requires a condenser of a certain value if it is to function optimally.  The alternative is to accept the fact that mismatched components can easily reduce the secondary voltage by 25% by going from, say, .22uf to a .47uf condenser.  Use the stock pair, or mismatch and hope for acceptable performance, or get out the 'basic radio equation' formulas to ascertain the resonate frequency of the coil and an acceptable condenser value.   
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GreenMachine

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2010, 06:28:41 PM »
I understand your statement re. RF frequencey and capacitance..I have to agree more in your statement re. the desired voltage drop that is required to ignite the mixture...Of course if we run non resistance spark plugs we have strong enough EMP of the oscillator  to register on AM radio...Hey is this cleared with the FCC..cheers
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500KsGerry

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Re: Upgrade points plate?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 02:32:26 PM »
Just use a magneto, solid copper UNsheilded plug wire and non resistor plug to annoy everyone in a 200 foot radius where ever you go. BS points-Cool set up...easy mod, cheap, accessible, plentiful, better quality, no brainer.   Have to look into it for yamahammer sometime.  TX Bltrdr
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