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Author Topic: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?  (Read 1818 times)

Sub

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2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« on: November 18, 2010, 08:48:23 PM »
oops erased post on accident! here is the short version:

I have been hearing a ticking noise at idle when starting, and my solenoid left me stranded, until I whacked it with a screwdriver and it came back to life.. is it on its way out?!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 08:46:11 PM by Sub »

ScooterBob

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 09:05:34 PM »
Changing over to a lower viscosity oil (Oh, GAWD! - an OIL THREAD!!) will most likely cure the valvetrain noise when it's cold. The new lifters have VERY little clearance in them and they don't deal well with oil that's thickened by cold temperatures. It'll limber up after you get a few hundred more miles on it and be quiet all the time. See your dealer about the starter relay - I'm guessing that the bike is still under warranty.
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REpozer

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 09:33:26 PM »
Sounds like a hydraulic valve lifter trying to warm/pump up . I wouldn't rev it to make it go away. What viscosity of oil are you using? Does your bike live outside?
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Maturin

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 09:37:37 PM »
This is the first time I took a hammering action to a piece of machinery with success.

Congratulation to your sucessfull action, although the usual procedure is:
1) Shout on the bike
2) Call it names
3) Kick it
4) Calm down and praise it to get it into better mood
5) Use special tool No.1 (hammer)

My fathers old VW had the same issue, we ended up opening the hood and hammering the starter quite often - until the day we forgot to put out 1st gear  :o - we jumped away and the starter shifted the car into the rear end of the car parking in front of us... well, well.....
It´s only the starter magneto getting stuck - if you have warranty it´s winter work for the dealer.
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WillW

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 09:42:32 PM »
My starter relay had the same problem - a whack with a screwdriver handle fixed it, but it was on the way out. It's been replaced under warranty. I'm told the new ones are a better Jap made version, although my new one looks identical to the original. Couple of others here have had the same problem. Get it replaced - it'll let you down eventually otherwise.
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clubman

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 10:02:41 PM »
Mine is having serious starting issues again. We don't know yet if it's the relay or the sprag clutch, (already replaced once), or indeed something else so I will say no more about it for now. Just coming into this thread all grumpy I guess to say I do wish RE could sort out electric starting. Everyone else has.

WillW

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 10:36:50 PM »
Sorry to hear it Clubman. What are the symptoms this time? 
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clubman

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 10:46:15 PM »
Basicallly exactly as before - the starter motor doesn't turn over the engine. Instead of that sound like a horse braying there's just a sort of whirring, no more. After five or six such responses to the button it will turn over and fire. I don't want to believe it's the sprag clutch which was replaced but 1000 miles ago but I suspect it is. Well, it's going back to my dealer to be checked over sometime soon and we will find out. I've no issues with either my dealer or Watsonian's handling of warranty claims but it will be in its 2nd year of warranty from next week and if I'm going to have starting issues on such a regular basis when it's out of warranty then...well, let's not go there.. ;)

WillW

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 11:14:42 PM »
It does sound a bit spraggish doesn't it., starter motor spinning but not engaging.
If it was the relay it wouldn't turn the starter motor at all. I wonder if they fitted the old style sprag last time rather than the new heavy duty one....?
Good luck with it  -  keep us posted.
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clubman

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2010, 12:15:21 PM »
Indeed. I also forgot to say that the battery is fully charged and this only happens when it is cold. This seems to exclude anything electrical and point to the sprag. I was told the replacement was the upgraded one too.  >:(

SSR

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010, 01:25:42 PM »
@Clubman- spinning without turning the engine over is a sure sign of sprag failure. If you are under warranty or not, try to get the new sprag. How to recognise ? picture of the old and new sprag is in the upgrades for C5 thread I had posted earlier.


Sub

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 08:45:22 PM »
I've uploaded a video highlighting the ticking noise I mentioned in the first post. Is this normal?! Sounds terrible!

Fast forward to about 1/3rd of the way through..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/5218582286/

r80rt

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 09:09:00 PM »
I don't hear anything unusual.
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Ice

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 09:16:07 PM »
To tough to tell for me I have no UCE bike yet.
Yours definitely has far, far less mechanical "music" ;) than my Iron Barrel mill.

Our forum brothers owning Bullets with the new lump can advise you as to what normal sounds like.

I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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clubman

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 09:36:23 PM »
Sounds fine to me!

Sub

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 09:45:51 PM »
You guys dont hear that clacking noise coming and going? It starts about 45 seconds lfet (as indicated on the Flickr player - it actually counts down, not up). And then when I rev it again at 20 seconds left, the sound is gone till the end of the video.

Why haven't I heard this before?! :)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 09:49:05 PM by Sub »

r80rt

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 09:49:26 PM »
Yeah I hear it, it just doesn't sound unusual, my C5 sounds much the same.
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prof_stack

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 09:56:10 PM »
Scooterbob or Kevin might have the definitive answer, but it sounds quite normal and fine to me.  

You should listen to an iron barrel motor to understand how much smoother these UCE's are.

In other words, I don't think you need to worry.  Somewhere I remember a slogan about RE's that jokingly said, "Loud Valves Save Lives."   :D
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singhg5

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2010, 12:47:54 AM »
You guys dont hear that clacking noise coming and going? It starts about 45 seconds lfet (as indicated on the Flickr player - it actually counts down, not up). And then when I rev it again at 20 seconds left, the sound is gone till the end of the video.

@SUB:

I have a G5 and I got used to my bike's sound.  My G5 has much less clacking / ticking sound.  There may be other reasons for low noise on my bike.  I use Star Tron fuel stabilizer and right now it has lighter engine oil 10W-40.  These two factors in addition to the fact that it has lot more miles may be responsible for reduced ticking sound on my G5 bike.  Oh, by the way the gunk accumulated in my engine head may act as sound barrier and muffle the sounds  :D.  

However, your C5 ticking sound has two peculiar features - it is a little louder and shriller than I ever had on my bike.  I have a link below of another person's C5 engine sound on youtube.  Listen at 0:28-0:29, the ticking sound with a shrill is noticable.  See if your bike matches with his C5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3c1nuxwEk  
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 12:55:45 AM by singhg5 »
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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 01:30:04 AM »
Quote
You should listen to an iron barrel motor to understand how much smoother these UCE's are.

That's a fact.  Yours sounds quite normal and good to my ears.  After a number of different makes and models over the years, I do know that the music changes as they break in and wear.  Different weight oils will certainly make a difference in the sound too.
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ScooterBob

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 01:58:07 AM »
OK - I bit on this ...... and there IS a bit of lifter racket going on there - but nothing that a UCE won't do. The fact that it IS quiet when you bring it off idle says to me that it ain't broke. If you revved it up and it got LOUDER, I'd then be concerned. Some causes - oil with too much viscosity, cold engine, or air entrained in the oil from being overfilled. ALL of these will make the lifters clatter a bit. If you are concerned, take it to your dealer - it HAS one of the best warranties on the Planet ..... Personally, I'd run it .... or, in the words of that ever-famous Ernest Angely:

"Place the afflicted part of your motor-sicle against the television screen, send a $75 dollar donation to ME and I'll pray, Pray, PRAY for the healing of the bike in the name of Cheezits and the Lard ..... "  ;D

Yeah - I paraphrased that just a little bit ......  ;)
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SSR

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 06:12:32 AM »
@Sub- I heard the sound track;) and its just the auto -decomp playing about. I agree 100% with ScooterBob, its just the oil viscosity and cold engine. Little weight on the exhaust cam becomes sticky with cold and thick oil or sometimes the spring has more tension then required but settles down in due time and thats just normal.

If it makes it any better for you then I'll put a video of the de-comp making same noise on cold startups so you can relax and not worry too much about it.

single

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Re: 2100 miles - a couple issues arising.. normal!?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 11:29:52 AM »
Geez,I hadn't thought of Angely for 20 yrs.Best stand up comic at the time.'Course,that was not his plan,probly.