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Author Topic: transmission swap  (Read 3661 times)

Bankerdanny

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transmission swap
« on: January 25, 2008, 09:14:14 PM »
I recently purchased an '06 5-speed transmision with the shifter and brake lever. I want to install it on my '02 4-speed bullet 500ES.

The question is what else do I need? From the pictures I have see it appears that I will need a new primary cover, a different clutch basket, and perhaps a different kick start lever.

Will the existing primary drive work? Do I need any special gaskets? Does it mount to the frame in the same way.

Anybody done one before.

Thanks
Endeavor To Persevere

stipa

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 05:58:06 AM »
I was told that a 4-speed tranny will not bolt up to an engine that was designated to accept a 5-speed box, and vice versa.  Different bolt pattern and slightly different primary case and cover. 
The 5 speeds came online in 2004.  I have a spare '04 engine that I am rebuilding for a custom project and was looking for a 4 speed box for it, (I like the looks), but the importer says it wouldn't work.  I am sure there is a way to do this, (adapter plate, some machine work, etc.), but its been my experience that after you fiddle-fart with something long enough, and spend enough money onit, you end up just wishing you had bought the correct item to start with.   
Good luck to you, but if you want to sell that 5-speed, I'll be looking here in a few months.

SteveJay

t120rbullet

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 03:29:06 PM »
Hey, if any of you guys have any left over 4 speeds I'd be interested in one.
Right shift would be a plus.
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Peter

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 11:23:37 PM »
Hey, if any of you guys have any left over 4 speeds I'd be interested in one.
Right shift would be a plus.
CJ

I'm actually now quite happy with my 4-speed so I will keep it. I changed the mainshaft bearing to a shielded one (only $3.50, but a couple of hours work) and have no leaks with gear oil in it (GL-4 75W90). It wasn't that great with the grease only and when I tried to dilute it with a little oil it started leaking.
That bearing mod and using oil instead of grease may be the first thing to consider if one is unhappy with the 4-speed box.

Peter

t120rbullet

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 03:47:14 AM »
Hey, if any of you guys have any left over 4 speeds I'd be interested in one.
Right shift would be a plus.
CJ
I'm actually now quite happy with my 4-speed so I will keep it. I changed the mainshaft bearing to a shielded one (only $3.50, but a couple of hours work) and have no leaks with gear oil in it (GL-4 75W90). It wasn't that great with the grease only and when I tried to dilute it with a little oil it started leaking.
That bearing mod and using oil instead of grease may be the first thing to consider if one is unhappy with the 4-speed box.
Peter

I also am quite happy with my 4 speed, just looking for another one.
Not willing to give up one of RE's crowning achievements the "neutral finder", in exchange for one more gear! 
CJ


1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

Spitting Bull

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 11:18:27 AM »
You don't really get  an extra gear in "top speed"  terms.  Both the 4-speed and the 5-speed have exactly the same top gear ratio - 1:1.  The difference is in the intermediate gears.

Tom

 
One cylinder is enough for anyone.

Peter

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 11:55:12 PM »
Is there anything wrong with your 4-speed box?
There are some fixes around.

To me 1st up 2,3,4 down on the right and neutral finder on the same side feels natural.
Getting the feel for the rear brake took a couple of hours though.
I can't even imagine having the neutral finder and shifter on opposite sides (mine came with right shift).
My Ural has left shift like every other motorcycle I've ever ridden.

But then there are reports from others who could never get used to right side shift.
Seems to be a highly individual thing.


Peter

Bankerdanny

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 02:37:40 AM »
No, no probs with the 4-speed.

But the ratios are spread pretty wide and if I could swap in a 5-speed for the cost of the close ratio 4-speed gears that seemed worth doing.

Plus, since the 5 is left shift by design, rather than the rube goldberg setup on the 4-speed, I expect that the 5-speed has a more accurate shift fewer false neutrals.
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Peter

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 12:35:56 AM »
Just to be precise, it's not the crankcase but the inner and outer primary drive cover.
At least that's what I'm seeing and it makes a big difference because it makes the right shift conversion work for $200.

Peter

LotusSevenMan

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2008, 07:57:38 AM »
Bankerdanny.

I have ridden left shift bikes too for thirty years (although my first bike , an Italian Garelli Reckord was a four speed right shift) and now have a Honda FireStorm and a Kawasaki KR1 twostroke road type racer with left shifts but still use the right change on the 500ES RE OK.
You just have to think the riding styles before you go out and all is well. Now if you crouch over your RE with dropped bars and rearsets and hangin' your a$$ off the side of the seat as your knee touches down I guess that might upset the plan a bit!!!  ;D
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

dogbone

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2008, 02:29:58 PM »
We can blame the Brits for the RH shift, they even drive on the wrong side of the road !! ::)
I had a BSA 441 flat tracker/hillclimb and a 450 Hondoodle, Wow what confusion.On the street there was little confusion, but while concentrating on racing, it was hell !
99 Enfield Bullet 535
a man isn't drunk,if he can lie on the floor without hanging on

cyrusb

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 06:09:35 PM »
The right shift might be confusing but it works like gangbusters when your going left in a slide ala' oval racing. Remeber Harley k model and sportsters, xr750's?.

LotusSevenMan

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2008, 07:26:49 PM »
Dogbone!
As a Brit/Limey in the UK I take offence to that remark................. well not a lot!

BUT
We ride/drive on the correct side of the road. We walk on the pavement not drive on it (In UK a pavement is a sidewalk). We wear pants but these are our undergarments as in jockey shorts. H*ll, we gave the world the Royal Enfield after all (and lots of other great Brit bikes). What did we get from the US? The Hardley Ableson ha ha.

Best thing is.......... we all love the Royal Enfield right?  ;D
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

Bankerdanny

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 10:55:16 PM »
It's more than just the primary cover.

According to the Snidal manual it has "..cast-in "tunnels" in crankcase and primary case castings."

If it was simply a case of a hole in the primary cover I could swap the 4 speed cover for the 5 speed one. That's what I thought I would be able to do when I bought the transmission.
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baird4444

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Re: transmission swap
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 12:25:46 AM »
The right shift might be confusing but it works like gangbusters when your going left in a slide ala' oval racing. Remeber Harley k model and sportsters, xr750's?.
I hate to admit it but I'm going to....
Back in the late 70's I bought a ratted out 1967 250 Harley Sprint fer bout $200. Tank was painted metal flake blue with a PBR sticker on it!!
Everything was bassackwards on it and it took me a while to get the hang of it.  Right  hand clutch and all!! It was a hell of a ride and a bitch to start!! My left shin was black and blue from the kickback till my father'nlaw (the farmer) taught me how to tickle the carb. It went good on the highway and I did some mild trail riding with it. That's when I learned to get up on the tank hill climbing... there's almost nuth'n like when you top a hill and yer airborne for a brief moment!!  What a sensation, had to do it again, racing backaround I clipped a tree with my right knee- SUMOVBICH..  Knee has never been the same. Then I attacked the hill again... CHAIN BROKE!!
Pushed that thing 1/2 mile thru thewoods just to get to the road!! 
Any way I loved the sound of that thing and I didn't know why...  THUMP.THUMP.
Then I traded up..   swapped a pickup topper and $50 bucks for a Hoonda 350!! Sold the Sprint for  $150...   
Wound up selling it in "79" cause my wife was with child and I decided that my kids would have a father....  didn't ride for 17 years....
   WAY off topic but the reference to the bassackwards Hardleys made me think of it.
       - Mike
            (spellchec didn't even pickup on the "bassackwards"... WTF??)
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
        -Cody Baird
'My dear you are ugly,
 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
 - Winston Churchill