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Author Topic: Question for the Carb Gurus  (Read 1608 times)

fredgold52

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Question for the Carb Gurus
« on: January 27, 2008, 04:14:28 AM »
I thought the iron engined Bullets came stock with the clip in the middle position on the slide needle.  Well, I had mine apart today and found the clip was one position down from the middle, raising the needle from what I thought it was supposed to be!!!   :o

What's the deal here?  Am I mistaken - it happens alot - or has this bike already had its needle set richer?  What do you think?    ???

Fred
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

C.C.

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 12:09:17 PM »
I thought the iron engined Bullets came stock with the clip in the middle position on the slide needle.  Well, I had mine apart today and found the clip was one position down from the middle, raising the needle from what I thought it was supposed to be!!!   :o

What's the deal here?  Am I mistaken - it happens alot - or has this bike already had its needle set richer?  What do you think?    ???

Fred

Fred,

Your dealer may have already adjusted this before you took possesion. Mine was in the center slot but I found it to need moved one position down to be dialed in. I tried two as well but that was too much. Remember each Bullet may be a little different just find whats best for yours. You may even want to work with the jets a little. I run a stock Bullet with a 27.5 pilot and a 130 main. Don't be afraid to try different settings you may find a lot of sleeping horses. Just write all of your settings down so you can go back if needed. I found mine likes one setup for summer and one for winter.
2006 Bullet Sixty 5
Member: Royal Enfield Association #11

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 01:44:53 PM »
From the factory the 500cc carb comes adjusted as follows:
Main Jet 110
Pilot Jet 25
Needle - second notch from the bottom

I totally agree with the last poster - Don't be afraid of making adjustments. Many customers adjust the needle upwards or re-jet. Just be careful to do one thing at a time and in steps.

fredgold52

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 02:24:15 PM »
Oh, believe me I'm not afraid of making adjustments.  At 140 miles the PAV is removed and it's up-jetted a bit to compensate.  This is my second Indian machine so I am already familiar with the 'individuality' each machine possesses.  All that is very much part of the fun.

Thanks for the info about the clip being in the second from the bottom position.  That's not what I expected.

The jet kit was out of stock when I initially ordered so I had to scrounge up some jets from local outlets.  It's very lean pickin's around here.

C.C.,  I know what you mean about two set ups - one for summer and one for winter.  My scooter is very much that way.  The cool dense air in the winter causes it to be lean so I have to richen it up a bit for winter riding.

I rode my 65 about 20 miles yesterday - it is still cold here but sunny.  I'll do better today.  I really love the slow cruising on country roads and hearing the engine loping along.  This bike and I are going to have a very long relationship.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

geoffbaker

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 07:22:36 PM »
I was surprised while going through my carb to find the main needle set to the lowest possible setting.

My bike's head was severly carbonized. Would this be the usual result of a low setting?

fredgold52

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 07:37:29 PM »
Discussions about slide needles tend to be confusing.  Was your needle clip in the lowest slot (rich) or was the needle at its lowest position (clip in the top position - lean)?

At any rate, I can't imagine a mid-range over rich condition causing a carbon build up like you describe.
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way

geoffbaker

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 07:42:54 PM »
It was in the lowest slot, on the lowest point of the needle... set for a rich setting, right?

I just bought this bike. I'm beginning to suspect that the previous owner had trouble with it, (the carb was dirty, jets fouled, fuel tank with rust and junk in it, head carbonized) and kept just enriching the fuel mixture as all the different problems kept making it hard to start and idle...


Thumper

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2008, 08:25:22 PM »
It was in the lowest slot, on the lowest point of the needle... set for a rich setting, right?

I just bought this bike. I'm beginning to suspect that the previous owner had trouble with it, (the carb was dirty, jets fouled, fuel tank with rust and junk in it, head carbonized) and kept just enriching the fuel mixture as all the different problems kept making it hard to start and idle...

The lower the needle position the leaner the mixture.

The needle is essentially a 'stopper' in the main jet. In operation you pull the 'stopper' out (by opening the throttle) and allow fuel to go through. Thinking of it this way, the taper of the needle makes it into a long tapered stopper. So as you pull the stopper out it allows more and more fuel through (between the walls of the jet and the needle's taper).

Raising the needle allows more fuel through the jet sooner, thus making it richer.

Matt

geoffbaker

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2008, 08:40:45 PM »
The needle has five  rings and a circlip that can fit on any ring.

With the pointy end of the needle down  :) and the circlip on the topmost setting, the throttle assembly will let the needle down the furthest into the jet - meaning it is set for the leanest setting, as it blocks most of the fuel from entering the chamber.

With the circlip on the lowest setting on the needle, the needle is prevented from dropping down too far, which means the maximum amount of fuel can pass through.

The circlip was on the lowest setting on my needle, which means the previous owner ran it as rich as he possibly could.

He did so, I am guessing, because he was having trouble starting (the starter jet was fouled, and there was rust and particles in the gas tank).

The result of the rich setting was a buildup of carbon in the head, resulting in the decomp and possibly the valves not setting properly, which meant compression began to drop.

As compression dropped and fuel problems continued, carbonization accelerated (too much fuel coming in all the time, and blowing right out of the engine, incompletely ignited), .... the previous owner kept enriching the mixture.

This is my current theory.

I'm resetting the circlip back to the factory setting (the middle of the five rings) and hope that with a decarbonized head, a clean fuel tank, a new fuel filter, and a cleaned carburetor, that I should be able to get the bike running again pretty soon.

I'll keep you posted.


DaveG297

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 11:24:07 PM »
Good going , Thumper........clip up,cllip down,,,,,,,,,,,its where the needle is at........I'm running a 115 main and raised the needle for a shorty muffler.   I could go to a 120 for cold weather but I rarely ride in this much snow.   I bet that thumper would push a pretty good snow plow..........dg

fredgold52

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Re: Question for the Carb Gurus
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 11:42:15 PM »
You got it, Geof.  Good description of what was going on in your bike.  I think you're taking the right approach with rebuilding.

2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way