Yes I do. The UCE is RE's future. I think a team ( I.E. Ace, Chumma, Scooterbob ) working in concert could readily adapt Fireball concepts and principles to the UCE,,,,,,But someone or a group of someones would have to fund the project.I see California as the key to all this. IF California with its large market falls in love with the UCE and the Fireball Idea the demand will materialize and then the economy of scale could begin coming in to play.I have no real idea about the European market.
Ice,There is VERY low probability of anything like this being applicable in any state using a tailpipe sniffer at inspections. There would by no means be any expectation of something like this meeting emission control standards. I might be good, but real miracles are a bit out of my league.
Yes I do. I see California as the key to all this. IF California with its large market falls in love with the UCE and the Fireball Idea the demand will materialize and then the economy of scale could begin coming in to play.I have no real idea about the European market.
Sorry, you're right, I was being to broad. It's just all the mods you want that are illegal If the part meets OEM/CARB specs then it's considered an equivalent swap. For instance, a Fram air filter is just as good as an OEM for your car. Also, there are some filters/mufflers/other parts that flow a little more than stock, are a little louder, and are still legal. The really good ones you think of (Power Commander, loud high flow mufflers) aren't. And of course anything that will push the emissions past allowable limits is out.Also, the ScottOiler is only illegal if you have to tap the same vacuum line that goes to the EVAP canister since that is deemed tampering. Silly since it has no reall effect but that's the letter of the law.Sorry I got over excited in my original statement. Too much sugar today Scott
+1 Ace. I think there will be a 'mild' version with stock head and FI system and a 'wild' version with more. As to the REV limit, would it be possible to go past that with a different crank or is the head the limiting factor?Scott
Thanks Ace. I was thinking of shorter stroke/lighter flywheel/bigger bore for 500cc but less piston speed. Not sure it would be worth the trade off. I see that if we want to exceed the 5500/6000 RPM range there are a whole host of things to be addressed. I think a little more torque and power would be nice but I'm not seeking the race engine with high top speeds. I want a Fireball, a little more umph with good reliability, street manners, and longevity.This all reminds me of my youth with air cooled VWs. Those engines are awesome stock and will run forever but if you start looking at mods any one serious mod requires everything else to be modded to keep up. The stock engine is so well balanced as it is. I think the UCE has more to give without too much modification and while still being a good daily driver.Thanks for all the tech geek details Scott
For the non mechanics among us, does bigger bore mean closer to square than the current undersqare. You mentioned reduction of stroke (presumably to allow higher revs and thus power)...To my simple understanding stroke = torque. No? Seems to me that the quintessntial characteistic of the Bullet, and what sets it apart from more modern bikes is the disproportioate torque. Surely it would be a shame to lose this (or even shift it substantially up the RPM curve) The "Fireball " idea appeals preciesely because it doesn't mess with the stroke. Even it it were square, I don't think you would sacrifice low end torque, just more explosion throughtout the range, with higher torgue and power , which, seems to me to be competely in line with the Fireball idea : So a 600 cc would just give you more to work with. Maybe I've got this all wrong. But if street and a little more highway passing capability are the goals (as well as pulling a sidecar) then more power without shorter stroke should do it bu making the 600 cc available breather better Nigel.
Ace,While a stock bike in India might not take more compression I think it could make a nice mod. As I recall the bike sent out for magazine review had a prototype high compression piston. My Monster ran about 10.5:1 and I ran that on 92 octane pump gas, might not be available in India but it is in Europe and the US. So while these might not make good stock options, they are good aftermarket options. Here's kinda what I'm thinking:Stage 1 - High flow air and exhaust with a Power commander to get the map right, smooth and more powerful with no hit to longevity unless you flog it.Stage 2 - Stage 1 + high compression piston Stage 3 - Stage 2 + camsStage 4 and up - bigger internal mods.Stage 1 is easy and most anyone with moderate skills could install at home. Performance increase would be minimal. Stage 2 takes a little more skill to install but is straightforward and easy to both install and design. Stage 3 needs some more serious design to restyle the cam profile. It's only at Stege 3 and up that we really need to start anlyzing what the desired outcome will be so we can determine which compromises to make. It's also where we'll start realy getting the major increase in power and torque. Price also starts to climb here.Am I way off base?Scott
bench time (= mechanic time = $) , once the engine is open, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and do the whole innards anyway.
I swear I heard that the UCE bottom end was purposely over built compared to its output.
I think it was SB who said the used "Dump truck" bearings in the thing..
This write up on the UCE seems to allude to some significant bottom end and connecting rod upgrades from the Iron Barrel. So it might just be a matter of replacing the cams. Nigel. And I don't lightening the flywheel is the way you want to go: Like the BSA Goldstar, that would give you high rpm performance and power but at the cost of low rpm manners and the momentum that helps the Bullet power out of curves and slowly wind up acceleration in any gear. Lighter fly.....more shifting and revving, and idling /starting problems . i think most riders interested in this bike wuold like strong pull from the bottom and middle, ower building up from the upper to middle range toward the redline: If they wanted that, they would get a sport bike. . ACEs type of mods can get the slowly winding up power without the loss of the engines defining characteristics. COPIED FROM A ROYAL ENFIELD SITE;The advantages of unit construction are:•fewer external oil lines to leak/fracture•no external drive connecting engine and transmission, thus simplifying maintenance•mounting in the frame is simpler - no need to align engine and transmission within frame•the combined casting may be stronger or lighter - hence more easily used as a stressed member of the frame.The chief disadvantage is that the engine and transmission have different lubrication requirements. In a design where the engine and transmission use a common oil supply, the oil used must take the requirements of both into account. (eg 1972 Ducati 750) Also the gearbox cannot be changed to that of another manufacturer. If different gears are required, they have to fit in the existing unit construction casting.The chief advantage of separate construction is the ease of removing gearbox or engine separately for maintenance, or for complete gearbox replacement, with stronger gears, or more gears, or better spaced gears. Another technology used in the bike is electronic fuel injection (EFI) which replaced the Lean-Burn Mikuni CV Carburetor engine. The EFI better controls the air-fuel mixture ratios at different speeds and riding conditions. A better cooling alloy cylinder, stronger crankshaft and connecting rod, improved oiling and a host of other features are all part of the improved Royal Enfield UCE engine.The UCE 500 EFI was originally unveiled at 2008 Motorcycle Shows in Cologne, Germany and Birmingham, England, although it took until a few years for the news units to hit the U.S. market.The new model is more powerful, technically advanced and more environment friendly. Important to long time RE motorcycle enthusiasts, it also sport an authentic classic look that reflects original British motorcycle styling.The old cast-iron engine which was heavy, less efficient, more space consuming and wasn't very efficient either. The new engine produces 27.5 bhp of power and 41.3 Nm of torque at just 4000 rpm.The lazy nature and the lowly rpm at which the peak rpm is delivered makes for a very commuter friendly experience through slow moving traffic, with the bike pulling with aplomb in low revs and high gears. The UCE powerplant is mated to a five-speed gearbox. The gearshifts are spongy and relatively trouble free for an RE. It could take time getting used to the power delivery and the gearshifts but once familiarized, this motorcycle engine won't let you down. The engine feels substantially refined when compared with its predecessor and transmits just the right amount of vibration to the handlebars. All you need to reach a three-digit speeds is a full twist of the throttle. As well, with the new UCE, Royal Enfield became the first motorcycle manufacturer in India to produce and sell a U.S. DOT and Euro-III compliant motorcycle.************************************************************************************************So it looks like a beefed up solid con rod and crankcase are already in place.. If the 600 sleeve also becomes availble that just kicks it up a notch, and maybe means that the port polishing wouldn't have to be perfect to get very good performance improvement , though that would remain an option . Even the piston would only have to be coated There is probably no advantage to try to get much over 600 cc without a counterbalancer Nigel