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Author Topic: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet  (Read 3841 times)

Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2011, 09:35:40 PM »
Since both steps require bench time (= mechanic time = $) , once the engine is open, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and do the whole innards anyway. Plus the interactive benfit of the mods.   To me, the distinction cost wise might be between drone copied CNC  versus hand polished ports.  (Using machine copies would mean a true exchange program---bolt off /bolt on, whereas using the hand poliish means sending the head out and waiting, unless of course, it was popular enough to have some "signature " heads sitting on the shelf.   So the last step might be "4" (now "3" ) a and b options . Nigel

ace.cafe

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2011, 10:52:50 PM »
Sometimes discussions like this are very helpful to clarify things in people's  minds about what steps can be taken, and how to go about it.

Kinda fun!
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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2011, 11:43:05 PM »
And so much less expensive that actual work ;)

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2011, 12:11:02 AM »
bench time (= mechanic time = $) , once the engine is open, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and do the whole innards anyway.

I swear I heard that the UCE bottom end was purposely over built compared to its output.

I vaguely recall something along the lines of it being able to handle up to 60HP ?

If that is the case than no bottom end mods would be needed.
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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2011, 12:13:43 AM »
I think it was SB who said the used "Dump truck" bearings in the thing..
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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2011, 12:48:48 AM »
I swear I heard that the UCE bottom end was purposely over built compared to its output.

I think that was ScooterBob, don't know if he said purposely.

You still might need low end work for high performance: higer tolerance bearings, balanced/blueprinted crank, lightened flywheel, etc.  Still, I'm with you, you can probably get some more umph fromt he top end with the existing crank.  That may not hold true if you want a higher redline.

Scott

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2011, 02:16:10 AM »
Well, we'll see what it's made of when the time comes to put it to the test, won't we?

When you start modifying engines, it soon becomes evident how much it will hold.
Keeping the rev limits to a sane territory is a lot of help in keeping all the parts attached together.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 02:23:02 AM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2011, 03:01:57 AM »
This write up on the UCE seems to allude to some significant  bottom end and connecting rod upgrades from the Iron Barrel.   So it might just be a matter of replacing the cams.  Nigel.    And I don't lightening  the flywheel is the way you want to go:   Like the BSA Goldstar, that would give you high rpm performance and power but at the cost of low rpm manners and the momentum that helps the Bullet power out of curves and slowly wind up acceleration in any gear.  Lighter fly.....more shifting and revving, and idling /starting problems .  i think most riders interested in this bike wuold  like strong pull from the bottom and middle, ower building up from the upper to middle range toward the redline:  If they wanted that, they would get a sport bike. .  ACEs type of mods can get the slowly winding up power without the loss of the engines defining characteristics. 


COPIED FROM A ROYAL ENFIELD SITE;
The advantages of unit construction are:

•fewer external oil lines to leak/fracture
•no external drive connecting engine and transmission, thus simplifying maintenance
•mounting in the frame is simpler - no need to align engine and transmission within frame
•the combined casting may be stronger or lighter - hence more easily used as a stressed member of the frame.
The chief disadvantage is that the engine and transmission have different lubrication requirements. In a design where the engine and transmission use a common oil supply, the oil used must take the requirements of both into account. (eg 1972 Ducati 750) Also the gearbox cannot be changed to that of another manufacturer. If different gears are required, they have to fit in the existing unit construction casting.

The chief advantage of separate construction is the ease of removing gearbox or engine separately for maintenance, or for complete gearbox replacement, with stronger gears, or more gears, or better spaced gears.
Another technology used in the bike is electronic fuel injection (EFI) which replaced the Lean-Burn Mikuni CV Carburetor engine. The EFI better controls the air-fuel mixture ratios at different speeds and riding conditions.


A better cooling alloy cylinder, stronger crankshaft and connecting rod, improved oiling and a host of other features are all part of the improved Royal Enfield UCE engine.


The UCE 500 EFI was originally unveiled at 2008 Motorcycle Shows in Cologne, Germany and Birmingham, England, although it took until a few years for the news units to hit the U.S. market.


The new model is more powerful, technically advanced and more environment friendly. Important to long time RE motorcycle enthusiasts, it also sport an authentic classic look that reflects original British motorcycle styling.


The old cast-iron engine which was heavy, less efficient, more space consuming and wasn't very efficient either. The new engine produces 27.5 bhp of power and 41.3 Nm of torque at just 4000 rpm.


The lazy nature and the lowly rpm at which the peak rpm is delivered makes for a very commuter friendly experience through slow moving traffic, with the bike pulling with aplomb in low revs and high gears.


The UCE powerplant is mated to a five-speed gearbox. The gearshifts are spongy and relatively trouble free for an RE. It could take time getting used to the power delivery and the gearshifts but once familiarized, this motorcycle engine won't let you down.


The engine feels substantially refined when compared with its predecessor and transmits just the right amount of vibration to the handlebars. All you need to reach a three-digit speeds is a full twist of the throttle.


As well, with the new UCE, Royal Enfield became the first motorcycle manufacturer in India to produce and sell a U.S. DOT and Euro-III compliant motorcycle.

************************************************************************************************
So it looks like a beefed up solid con rod and crankcase are already in place..  If the 600 sleeve also becomes availble that just kicks it up a notch, and maybe means that the port polishing wouldn't have to be perfect to get very good performance improvement , though that would remain an option .  Even the piston would only have to be coated   There is probably no advantage to try to get much over 600 cc without a counterbalancer   Nigel

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2011, 11:52:13 AM »
I think it was SB who said the used "Dump truck" bearings in the thing..

Correct - Dump truck rear wheel bearings! hahaha! It's the MOST drive side bearing that I have ever seen in an engine of that size. The engineers in India have never been taught the fine art of "just good enough" - nor would they embrace the concept, IMHO. They build the Enfield to last for three generations, I think! I believe that the Finite Element Analysis of that little engine pretty much proved that "all was good" up to around 60hp on it. I'll say from an eyewitness account of seeing one pop due to improper assembly that the rod is PLENTY strong ...... Of course if you were getting 60hp out of it, it wouldn't last for three generations ...... but I don't think you'd pop it either. Goodness knows that I sure tried LAST year to pop one ................... BO-O-O-O-ORING ........  ;)
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2011, 03:54:29 PM »
This write up on the UCE seems to allude to some significant  bottom end and connecting rod upgrades from the Iron Barrel.   So it might just be a matter of replacing the cams.  Nigel.    And I don't lightening  the flywheel is the way you want to go:   Like the BSA Goldstar, that would give you high rpm performance and power but at the cost of low rpm manners and the momentum that helps the Bullet power out of curves and slowly wind up acceleration in any gear.  Lighter fly.....more shifting and revving, and idling /starting problems .  i think most riders interested in this bike wuold  like strong pull from the bottom and middle, ower building up from the upper to middle range toward the redline:  If they wanted that, they would get a sport bike. .  ACEs type of mods can get the slowly winding up power without the loss of the engines defining characteristics.  


COPIED FROM A ROYAL ENFIELD SITE;
The advantages of unit construction are:

•fewer external oil lines to leak/fracture
•no external drive connecting engine and transmission, thus simplifying maintenance
•mounting in the frame is simpler - no need to align engine and transmission within frame
•the combined casting may be stronger or lighter - hence more easily used as a stressed member of the frame.
The chief disadvantage is that the engine and transmission have different lubrication requirements. In a design where the engine and transmission use a common oil supply, the oil used must take the requirements of both into account. (eg 1972 Ducati 750) Also the gearbox cannot be changed to that of another manufacturer. If different gears are required, they have to fit in the existing unit construction casting.

The chief advantage of separate construction is the ease of removing gearbox or engine separately for maintenance, or for complete gearbox replacement, with stronger gears, or more gears, or better spaced gears.
Another technology used in the bike is electronic fuel injection (EFI) which replaced the Lean-Burn Mikuni CV Carburetor engine. The EFI better controls the air-fuel mixture ratios at different speeds and riding conditions.


A better cooling alloy cylinder, stronger crankshaft and connecting rod, improved oiling and a host of other features are all part of the improved Royal Enfield UCE engine.


The UCE 500 EFI was originally unveiled at 2008 Motorcycle Shows in Cologne, Germany and Birmingham, England, although it took until a few years for the news units to hit the U.S. market.


The new model is more powerful, technically advanced and more environment friendly. Important to long time RE motorcycle enthusiasts, it also sport an authentic classic look that reflects original British motorcycle styling.


The old cast-iron engine which was heavy, less efficient, more space consuming and wasn't very efficient either. The new engine produces 27.5 bhp of power and 41.3 Nm of torque at just 4000 rpm.


The lazy nature and the lowly rpm at which the peak rpm is delivered makes for a very commuter friendly experience through slow moving traffic, with the bike pulling with aplomb in low revs and high gears.


The UCE powerplant is mated to a five-speed gearbox. The gearshifts are spongy and relatively trouble free for an RE. It could take time getting used to the power delivery and the gearshifts but once familiarized, this motorcycle engine won't let you down.


The engine feels substantially refined when compared with its predecessor and transmits just the right amount of vibration to the handlebars. All you need to reach a three-digit speeds is a full twist of the throttle.


As well, with the new UCE, Royal Enfield became the first motorcycle manufacturer in India to produce and sell a U.S. DOT and Euro-III compliant motorcycle.

************************************************************************************************
So it looks like a beefed up solid con rod and crankcase are already in place..  If the 600 sleeve also becomes availble that just kicks it up a notch, and maybe means that the port polishing wouldn't have to be perfect to get very good performance improvement , though that would remain an option .  Even the piston would only have to be coated   There is probably no advantage to try to get much over 600 cc without a counterbalancer   Nigel

Nigel,
Yes, the text reads well.
As long as the actual results meet the requirements, then all will be well.
I certainly don't want to have to change any more than necessary to get the job done properly.
But I've also been building performance engines for 38 years, and I know that nothing is "in the bag" until it is proven-out in the actual application.

So, I"m optimistically inclined about the ideas, and I think things can be done with it.
I've never seen an engine yet which couldn't be "perked-up" with some well-thought-out modifications.

If the demand for such modifications really does turn out to be strong, then alot could be done with it. What really "drives" this sort of thing is the demand for it.
There's literally "tons" of demand for things like this with Harley Davidsons, and as a result there are innumerable people doing all kinds of things for them. The aftermarket is FULL of stuff that people can buy for HD. And that is precisely because there are millions of people wanting to do stuff to it.
That kind of demand stimulates entrepreneurs to develop things to fill that demand. And the same would be true if we see alot of demand from the UCE market.
And that would create the ability to do things in mass production, and it all works to make an arrangement for the consumer to get the best products at the most reasonable prices. Without sufficient demand, the whole house of cards doesn't work, and it's then a custom market.
So really, it's all on the consumer demand to make things like this happen to their best advantage.
And threads like this one start the process, so if there is some unseen demand for this kind of thing, we can see it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 04:14:20 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2011, 07:11:08 PM »
Well , my thanks to ACE and all other's who have contributed to this thread.  I don't have anything else intelligent to say about it (assuming I ever did)  .  It is a privellige as a "neophyte" to communicate with ACE, Chumma (and vicariously Aniket) , Scooter Bob  and other Enfield "Royalty"  .   I think the idea is squarely out there.  To date 505 people have dropped into this thread (less a few repeat visitors).  Folks, these bikes are seriously great  The modification potential is very significant.  The uniqueness is simply not avaiable with any other brand. These bikes are seriously built and  poised to go big.  Get out and see one.  Ride one.  Dream.   Plan your upgrade path. Be an indivuidual and stand out from the crowd with something built to last of metal  that is both currently relevant and an historic icon and looks cool.  .
.  The collective experience and wisdom expressed in this thread by all the contributors that know what they are talking about is of great value........Other people pay big bucks to learn what you are being told here for free.: An education in realistic engine performance enhancement.  I know I have learned a lot. 
If you are a "lurker" don't be shy.  I know diddly about mechanics but I love good products and good ideas.None of the esperts on this thread have treated any of my questions as silly.  A great group, with great respect and lots of spirit. 
 So drop a one liner to say "I like that idea" or I was thinking about RE but worried about the lower power number".  Or even," Now that I know this can be done down the line, that helps me make up my mind about what to buy."  Or whatever you feel like saying .These bikes are not "cheap":  they are sturdy, durable and priced to what they are.  Nobody is paying me to say any of this.   And that's all I've got to say (for this thread anyway)   Nigel

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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2011, 08:21:22 PM »
For the record, A bone stock UCE is a darn fine motorcycle, and doesn't need any performance mods to be thoroughly enjoyed ;)
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Re: Announcement of 48 hp Bullet
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2011, 01:46:05 AM »
 Whelp, that was an EXCELLENT discusion guys. I thoroughly enjoyed it.Well done. Pushing the envelope  on these motor's  is inevitable, as these UCE bikes become more popular and wide spread, as they most certainly will be with the model line up in the next few years. All this does have me thinking. But as stated, it will take someone who REally knows these motors, has the time and facilities to do it.  And there's probably only a couple here in the states  ;) So get to work boy's, so that when the demand is here, it's ready to roll out  :D   GREAT  STUFF !
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.