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Author Topic: K&N air filter testing  (Read 5547 times)

prof_stack

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K&N air filter testing
« on: January 30, 2011, 08:58:45 PM »
Art from Douglas Motorcycles sent me a prototype K&N air filter to try out in the C5.

Installation was painless, EXCEPT that the inner diameter is currently too small.  The bracket raises up from the box and prevents a tight seal.  See the second photo.  Art suggested pinching the top and bottom to get the left/right side to bulge out and extend beyond the bracket.  That didn't quite work in my C5.

K&N will have to get it made to our spec's before many people will buy it.  I got out a carving knife and gouged out a slot for the brackets.  That was ugly as heck but made for a better seal.  It is still not perfect, however.

The OEM filter, even when tightened, was not a perfect fit either.  The stock setup of plate and self-locking crown nut is pretty ricky-dink, a general "charming" feature I am still getting used to about this bike.

With temps in the upper 30's, but dry, I rode the C5 for 40 miles, mostly on the viaduct in Seattle south to Burien, about 13 miles out, at speeds above 50mph most of time. 

With the upswept muffler I didn't hear any sucking sounds coming from the air filter.  That muffler sure sounds sweet.

My seat of the pants dyno observed that there is better throttle response now.  The C5 is clearly more willing to accelerate at lower rpms and mostly throughout the range.  Heading into the stiff wind at 60mph, the C5 was willing to go faster but was not too much in a hurry to do it.

Back on the city streets I noticed a stronger pull in traffic, and was aware that at 40mph in 5th gear it pulls with more authority than before.

The C5 has 994 miles as of today.  I will post more stuff here when I get out again.  I'm still thawing from this ride!   :)
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Ice

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 09:43:40 PM »
Nice report.
 Please keep us posted as the R&D and testing continues.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 09:58:04 PM »
Just measured the stock filter:
Inside dia:3"
Outside dia: 4 5/8"
Height: 3"

Then I checked their site.  There are two filters that might fit:
AL-6502 & BM 1298.

They're both about 3 1/8" high with a 3" inner diameter.  Maybe one of these would fit better.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 11:28:42 PM »
Just measured the stock filter:
Inside dia:3"    Outside dia: 4 5/8"    Height: 3"

Then I checked their site.  There are two filters that might fit:  AL-6502 & BM 1298.
They're both about 3 1/8" high with a 3" inner diameter.  Maybe one of these would fit better.

Scott

The one I have is # BM0400.  It is listed as having a 3" inside diameter.  To clear the bracket, the inside diameter would have to be closer to 3.5" or maybe just a little less.
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prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 01:09:20 AM »
Not wanting to leave a dry day go to waste, I put 20 more city miles on the C5 this afternoon.  That and wanting to hit the 1,000 mile mark.

The new air filter gives it more "grunt" at lower rpms and that will probably lower the gas mileage because of the increased grin power.   ;D

I was reminded of why I bought the C5 as it effortlessly cruised the mean streets of Seattle with a smooth cadence and gentle vibes. 

Can't wait for warmer weather! 
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 02:41:14 AM »
Looking at my stock filter, it is a bit oval on the bottom.  I hadn't noticed before. :(

I looked on K&N's sight, nothing with a 3.25 ID.  There are a few at 3 5/8" & 3 3/4".  These may fit but might need a new, larger top plate to hold them in place.

DU-0100, E-0900, HA-0001.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 03:09:03 AM »
New RE comes with enclosed air filter :

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 03:55:44 AM »
Thanks for the pic of the new equipment.  I hear it's a 100% retrofittable item.  Any idea on the part number or US availability?

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 04:09:29 AM »
I heard a rumor those covers will be in the states pretty soon ;)
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prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 05:24:18 AM »
New RE comes with enclosed air filter :

Is this just a cover to prevent air leaks getting directly into the intake port rather than through the air filter?

It will be interesting to check it out when it becomes availlable.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 07:07:42 AM »
I'm still kinda partial to the pod filter I installed.  It seems to be working fine so far and I ordered a duckbill for the crankcase vent today.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 09:24:58 PM »
I did a little check on my mpg with the last tank of gas.  With the stock air cleaner I was usually getting about 55mpg, with the S&B cone I got about 45mpg.  That seems a little drastic, in the 10% range.  It has been colder so the bike it probably running richer, I've been using the freeway more, and one tank is a short measurement.  I'll keep tabs on it and also check the plug to see if it looks like I'm running rich or lean.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 10:07:29 PM »
I did a little check on my mpg with the last tank of gas.  With the stock air cleaner I was usually getting about 55mpg, with the S&B cone I got about 45mpg.  That seems a little drastic, in the 10% range.  It has been colder so the bike it probably running richer, I've been using the freeway more, and one tank is a short measurement.  I'll keep tabs on it and also check the plug to see if it looks like I'm running rich or lean.

Scott


This pretty much confirms what I found when checking the various types of air filters for the UCE bikes. The little cone filters allow for WILD fluctuation of the MAP - indicating turbulence in the intake - and the resulting lesser fuel economy. DO keep us in the loop with some long-term and closely monitored results.
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Ice

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 10:19:51 PM »
Thanks for the update Br. D.S.

 After de restricting my exhaust I noticed an increased tendency to use the extra HP more often  ;D  It initially affected my mileage a bit but was easily corrected by altering my riding habits a bit.

Im still getting eleventybillion smiles per gallon.


BTW what are you running for a silencer and how would you describe the exhaust note?
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 10:27:10 PM »
Bob,
That's my suspicion too.  Those little fluctuations result in over and under dispensing of gas at the injector, leaning toward the rich side.  You might not feel it as surging at the wheel if it's happening so many times a second but it still eats more gas.  If that's the case, then installing the same filter with either a honecomb to straighten the flow or a plenum to give it some intake length to straighten the flow should make it better.  

I forget who did it but someone mounted the cone filter right on the end of the rubeer snorkel in the box.  That solves the turbulence problem and eliminates the holes from the hinge.  Of course, then you lose the lovely howl the engine makes when you crack the throttle with just the cone on the throttle body, an unexpected but welcome side effect of this mod ;)

I'll check the plug and run another tank.  Also, it'd be interesting to see what prof_stack is seeing with his mileage.  He's got a high flow fliter but is using the original  snorkel.

Ice,
I've got the stock exhaust with cat intact.  The exhaust note seems to come up with just the cone filter.  Past half throttle you get a nice honk/growl out of the engine.  Below that it's still pretty tame.

Scott

prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 10:45:40 PM »
I think the K&N filter mounted in place of the OEM air filter will not necessarily affect the air flow turbulance in a bad way.  But I'll hopefully be able to get out and ride this week to get some miles in.  Right now there is more snap on acceleration due to more air getting in quickly. 

I am also curious how the mileage changes. 
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Ice

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 10:51:51 PM »
a honecomb to straighten the flow or a plenum to give it some intake length to straighten the flow should make it better.  

Thats what I am hoping for.


I've got the stock exhaust with cat intact.  The exhaust note seems to come up with just the cone filter.  Past half throttle you get a nice honk/growl out of the engine.  Below that it's still pretty tame.

SWEET !!

 I love "music" ;D,,  angry neighbors not so much.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2011, 11:08:23 PM »
Stack,

I think you're right, should be fine with your filter setup.  Were you tracking mpg befoe you installed it?  Just wondering if you can do a comparison.

Ice,

Yeah, I think Jester put a source for honeycomb in somewhere earlier in this thread.  Gotta get me some of that, 

Hey, I've got another filter since I bought two.  If you want to try it out PM me your address and I'll send it to you.  I'm happy to do it just to get another tester in the mix.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2011, 12:11:17 AM »
Prof Stack,

I think you're right, should be fine with your filter setup.  Were you tracking mpg befoe you installed it?  Just wondering if you can do a comparison.

Scott

I do keep track of MPG, being so math nerdy and all.  The C5 has averaged around 65mpg for the first 1,000 miles. 
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2011, 01:05:23 AM »
Have you checked since installing the new filter?  Any diff?

I would attribute my drop to 'spirited' takeoffs since the install but I think 10% is too much to be accounted for from just that.

Scott

prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2011, 01:21:10 AM »
Have you checked since installing the new filter?  Any diff?

I would attribute my drop to 'spirited' takeoffs since the install but I think 10% is too much to be accounted for from just that.

Scott
I haven't filled up yet, but the fun factor has increased with the improved acceleration, so my wrist has been working more.   :D

Overall the C5 seems to run more smoothly with better throttle response. 

BUT, if mpg were to fall from 65 to under 60 I would likely put the oEM stuff back on.  I didn't buy the RE for go-fast stuff.  I would have kept the Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada.
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Ice

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 01:43:09 AM »
prof-stack,
I average 65mpg with my Iron barrel so I assume your mileage will improve as the motor becomes more broken in.



Ducati Scotty,
 
 Thank you for the offer but I think it would be of greater benefit to the Bullet community as whole if more UCE data were captured. After that yes please and thank you I would love to give it a whirl.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 04:21:27 AM »
Oops!  Forgot you were iron barrel.  Anyone else with a UCE interested?

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2011, 04:58:36 AM »
 Scotty, just thinking out loud here. And not looking at the bike. What if you were to extend the pod out , on the end of a piece of the correct sized radiator hose, cut to the correct length. Pick up some of that blue air filter material, the cheap thin stuff, like you would use on a furnace. Cut it in a circular shape to fit inside the radiator hose, epoxyed in, with maybe some thin  wire to stiffen it up, cross wise? The added length of the hose and the thin filter material should slow the air down a bit?
Maybe it's nutty, but what the heck? Just a thought.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2011, 07:23:32 AM »
The hose alone should be enough, just a little length to let the air settle into a smooth stream, but there's not much space to put it in there.  It fits beautifully where it is but there's not much extra room.  I'll have to look at it but I'm more inclined to try that honeycomb matrix.  The rubber collar on the filter separates easily so I can pluck it out and try to mount it in there, then just put the pod back on top.

I'm also going to see if I can track down one of those plastic covers from the new models.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2011, 10:05:46 AM »
Is anything in particular you want to know about the filter cover? I installed the new cover on my C5.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2011, 03:51:38 PM »
I just got a message from Bob that they are on the way for the US and he'll post when they''re here.  Where did you get yours SSR?  Are you in the US?

Also, I started poking through the K&N cross reference.  It looks like their E-0900 (3.75 ID) is from a 61-65 Chevy Corvair.  I think that would fit though the top wouldn't cover the whole thing, may need to cut a new one if it doesn't quite seal.  It's less than an inch larger in outside diameter.  Plus you can get a paper one at any auto store for about $10 and it has more filter area than the stocker.  That plus a cover may be my new path.  Here's the cross list page:
http://www.knfilters.com/search/kn_cross_ref.aspx?part=E-0900

All the other filters close in size were European moto filters.

Scott
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 04:03:21 PM by Ducati Scotty »

SSR

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2011, 04:39:43 PM »
I got it from RE but they are not available as spares yet in India. I live in India.

What you have in mind has been tried and tested by a fellow comrade in India. Here is the way it needs to be done as I suggested  http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/73998-royal-enfield-500-classic-4100-km-ownership-review-49.html    and this is how the lad ended up with K&N E0900 on C5     http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/73998-royal-enfield-500-classic-4100-km-ownership-review-52.html

To fit the E0900 on C5, all you need is a bigger filter plate from the CI Bullet and invert the nut/bolt on the filter box. Only problem is that you will not be able to fit the filter cover with E0900 until K&N comes up with standard OEM size filter. As the K&N filter is quite big and leaves no space for the filter cover.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2011, 05:36:37 PM »
Awesome!  Thanks so much. 

I'm wondering if the Corvair paper filter element will be a little smaller outside diameter than the K&N and fit a little easier.  I said in the beginning of this thread that I was more interested in getting rid of the leaks in the air box from the hinge than the potential performance gains of a free flow K&N type filter which is why I may go to a paper filter.  They don't generally flow as well but they filter better.  More area means it may breathe a little better but more importantly it should last a little longer.  And I'd rather not put tape across the hinge on the box to seal it but it seems like that solution is looking more and more like what I may need to do.  Also, it looks like a very tight fit with the larger filter.  I don't know if we'd be able to use the plastic cover and the larger filter together. 

All very good info, thanks again!

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2011, 05:50:20 PM »
It hardly leaves 2mm gap between the filter and box but works. If you use tape on the hinge and adjust the lock to make the box lid tight fit then its quite good too.

You can not fit the plastic lid with the bigger filter but if you can provide me with OD of paper filter you intend to use then I could try it out and let you know.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2011, 06:25:47 PM »
I'll probably try out a WIX paper filter, I like their stuff.  When I get it I'll measure it and post the specs here.  Even if the present cover doesn't cover the whole filter it may still seal acceptably.

The tape is a good fix and you can't even see it down there.  You only change the filter rarely so it's not even really an inconvenience, it just feels sloppy to me, as does the sealing lip on that box to start with.  I'm glad they got the plastic cover and we'll be able to get it soon here in the states.  I'm hoping that's way better.  The hinge gaps just seems like such a huge oversight on such an otherwise well designed engine.  Ah well, they have seen it and put in a fix.  Can't complain too much ;)

Scott

Ducati Scotty

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2011, 06:34:15 PM »
I picked up the WIX air filter yesterday.
ID 3 7/8"
OD 5 1/2"
HT 3 1/8"

I did a quick check and it looks like it will just fit if I flip the lower mouning bolt and point the threads out.  It doesn't cover the crankcase vent and I think it will just clear the snorkel mounting bolts.  I think it will seal with the existing lid even though it doesn't cover the entire edge of the filter.  While looking online I noticed NAPA advertised their version will flow 75CFM for whatever that is worth.  More to come...

Scott

prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2011, 06:35:01 PM »
Have you checked since installing the new filter?  Any diff?

I would attribute my drop to 'spirited' takeoffs since the install but I think 10% is too much to be accounted for from just that.

Scott
I topped off the tank this morning to get an accurate figure:  65.5 mpg for the tank.  That is about what the bike has gotten since new.

This C5 is getting really smooth.  At 55mph the motor feels like it is barely working.  Nice.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2011, 08:11:47 PM »

This C5 is getting really smooth.  At 55mph the motor feels like it is barely working.  Nice.

Or your butt is going numb.  ;)

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2011, 10:01:06 PM »
Hey, Norm. I thought your first tank was 81mpg. I've found the mileage plummets with not a whole lot of wrist and speed.

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2011, 12:36:54 AM »
I picked up the WIX air filter yesterday.
ID 3 7/8"
OD 5 1/2"
HT 3 1/8"

I did a quick check and it looks like it will just fit if I flip the lower mouning bolt and point the threads out.  It doesn't cover the crankcase vent and I think it will just clear the snorkel mounting bolts.  I think it will seal with the existing lid even though it doesn't cover the entire edge of the filter.  While looking online I noticed NAPA advertised their version will flow 75CFM for whatever that is worth.  More to come...

Scott

The cfm figure needs to have a vacuum depression figure with it, to have real meaning.
I would think it is done at a relatively low vacuum, which means it would probably do better than 75cfm at higher vacuum.
It's probably just fine.

The old 500 Bullet with a stock head would pull just a shade under  that at full valve lift with 10" water-column vacuum, and 143cfm with 28" wc.
The Fireball pulls about 120cfm at 10" wc, and about 195cfm at 28" wc at the full .350" valve lift that we use..
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:54:58 AM by ace.cafe »
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prof_stack

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2011, 12:53:31 AM »
Hey, Norm. I thought your first tank was 81mpg. I've found the mileage plummets with not a whole lot of wrist and speed.

Heh, the first tank was clearly a not-quite filled tank not knowing how high was prudent in the C5 gas tank.  When good riding weather returns (sooner not later we hope!) I think my typical 100-150 mile day rides will yield closer to 70mpg. 

If changing the OEM torpedo to the sleeker upswept muffler caused the mpg to fall, I'm okay with that.  The improved throttle response is very nice.  The exhaust tone is much nicer than stock.

The K&N filter also seems to improve the "punch" right off a twist of the throttle.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2011, 01:57:50 AM »
That makes more sense. If the C-5 odometer is as far off as the G-5, your really getting @60mpg or less; my experience.

SSR

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2011, 07:29:59 AM »
@Scott- Few picture for your reference.

You would be able to fit the filter but the filter plate will not seal on the filter properly. Better go with the CI bullet filter plate and invert the threads of the bolt to fit the new filter.

If you intent to fit the new filter cover with the aftermarket oversize filter then it will not fit inside the filter cover. OEM filter itself is a snug fit.

From your measurements ID, HT is almost the same only OD is tad bit bigger and just about fit snuggly.

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2011, 08:21:55 AM »
Thanks for the pics.  I didn't think the new internal cover would fit with the larger filter, just kind of got curious since it was readily available.  I think in the end I'll go with a stock sized filter and the internal cover for good sealing but until they get to the states I'll just play around a little.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2011, 02:04:40 AM »
Well, I got in 94 miles today before any rains came to the Seattle area.  I was riding with my older brother Vic who has new Ducati GT1000 bought from the same dealer as my C5.  I introduced him to the owner.

His Duc is ridiculously quick, much more than a sane person needs.   :D

He is moving to Georgia in a few weeks and taking his toys with him, so we wanted to get out together before he leaves.  It was a nice ride.

Anyway, the C5 ran great and the MPG came in at 67.0 which is just fine with me.  I think I'll try the OEM filter again and see how it differs.  I want to get the new cover when it comes available to Seattle.



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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2011, 05:52:46 AM »
 Thanks for the update. Threads like these are a valuable service to all will be viewed for a long time to come.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2011, 04:11:17 PM »
Anyway, the C5 ran great and the MPG came in at 67.0 which is just fine with me.  I think I'll try the OEM filter again and see how it differs .

@Prof:

Your MPG is excellent - because 67 MP US Gallon = 81 MP Imperial Gallon !  The filter doesn't seem to affect gas consumption significantly, if at all.  

To get a true picture, one needs to repeat the same experiment several times and then average the results.  Secondly, the amount of gas used by looking inside the gas tank is an approximation, thus MPG figures will be approximations.  No need to sweat ! Just enjoy the thump  ;D.  
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 04:39:30 PM by singhg5 »
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2011, 08:50:10 PM »
Why not take those dampeners off the fins. They don't do much, look like crap, and restrict airflow. There's plenty of fin support already!!

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2011, 09:41:52 PM »
Why not take those dampeners off the fins. They don't do much, look like crap, and restrict airflow. There's plenty of fin support already!!

Hey Joe, (sounds like a song),

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!   ;)  I like the dampeners just as they are.  Like the Enfield, they are different.  Send me yours if you still have them.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2011, 09:59:27 PM »
Those dampers are for sound deadening. Between the Indian need for a quiet engine and the sound requirements world wide, they need to be there. As for strength or cooling, they do no good and possibly some harm. I would pull them, but that's just how I am.

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2011, 06:12:12 AM »
I flipped the bottom mounting bolt and the Corvair air filter dropped right in. centered and the lid closes without a problem.  It obscures about half of the crankcase vent line but I'm sure that's not a problem, still plenty of room to vent gases.  I guess it's a smidge taller than the stock filter because the standard top plate clamped down nice and tight.  I'm sure it's well sealed.  I'm guessing this means you could order the K&N equivlaent and it would also fit.  Tomorrow I hope to take it for a spin.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2011, 03:25:51 PM »
I flipped the bottom mounting bolt and the Corvair air filter dropped right in. centered and the lid closes without a problem.  It obscures about half of the crankcase vent line but I'm sure that's not a problem, still plenty of room to vent gases.  I guess it's a smidge taller than the stock filter because the standard top plate clamped down nice and tight.  I'm sure it's well sealed.  I'm guessing this means you could order the K&N equivlaent and it would also fit.  Tomorrow I hope to take it for a spin.

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2011, 05:55:18 PM »
Coming.  Give a lazy guy a break ;)

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2011, 03:27:33 AM »


And in the gallery for posterity: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3328

S&B makes one of their 8 layer reusable filters for the Corvair.  I may have to skip the plastic sealing box and live with some tape so I can have that filter.

http://www.sbfilters.com/s.nl/it.A/id.863/.f

Scott
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 03:30:28 AM by Ducati Scotty »

Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2011, 11:48:08 AM »
I am trying to follow this conversation without a bike or filter to actually look at.  Why is it important to "seal" the filter cover lid with tape o the hinges ?  Doesn't air have to get in somewhere anyway?  Seems to me I have seen other bikes modified with no air filter cover boxes  at all, just a perforated chrmoe basket with perforated panels of the same size as the the air filter unti itself (like automotive air filters ....cake shaped.)   As long as the sealing ring is smug to the base plate so air can;t go around the filter (usually accomplished with a butterfly wing nut securing the whole filter unit with its rubber ring seal pressend against to intake flange ) what does it matter if the box leaks? isn't the box just cosmetic?  Nigel . 

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2011, 03:31:46 PM »


@Scott - you are getting good at taking nice pictures  ;).  Like it.

I know it is already 'tomorrow' and you need a cup of Joe to get going, so I will wait until your next post on its performance  :D.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2011, 03:58:07 PM »
Nigel, unlike most vehicles, the RE pulls air from the inside to the outside of the filter.  The hinge is on the clean side of the air stream.  As such, anything that gets sucked through goes right to the throttle body.

In the above pic the round, small opening in the upper right is the intake manifold.  The fresh air intake is on the back of the box under the filter cover plate.

Singh, performance?  It runs.  No difference from stock as far as I can tell, this is a paper air filter.  I think it may be a bit less peppy at higher speeds than it was with the cone filter.

Scott


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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2011, 04:57:58 PM »
Hmmm.....

I just topped up the tank after changing to the new filter, 56.5 mpg.  That was with the S&B cone filter.  It was only two gallons but maybe I need to re-install and run a few more tanks to check if it really is throwing the mileage off.

Scott

Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2011, 05:10:31 PM »
Maybe this has already been addressed, but is there any possibility of losing the whole air filter housing , mounting an intake pipe right to the intake maniforld and installing an exposed tubular /cylinder type filter in it's own chrome housing (picture something the size and shape of an oversized  elongated coke can, or about the size of an automotive oil filter) with mesh containg the filter element sucking from the outside in?   I wouldn't know where to look for such a thing, but it seems to me that I have seen things like this on various custom bikes .  Could look kinda cool too; -chrome end caps, stainless mesh.  .  A big enough  cylinder with accordiian pleat paper filter unit might offer enough suface area to lower resistance.    Nigel.


Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2011, 06:00:53 PM »
Or this

 http://www.santiagochopper.com/shop/details



or this

http://www.santiagochopper.com/shop/details.html?id=517
   You get the idea    outside in direct to maniforld      Sure there would be mounting issues, but as someone saiid on this forum, nothing can't be solved with a torch .  Might even have to chase the intake maniforl right back to cylinder head to effect the plumbing,  but going outside in rather than inside out surely opens a whole realm of possibilities.     I couldn't find an example of the cannister shape I seem to recall, but I am sure they exist.      I didn't look at Brit bike customization sites, but I would be willing to bet that there are similar mods out there for Triumphs/BSAs etc that might just fit right out of the box..        Nigel


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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2011, 06:32:20 PM »
I'm trying to keep this low tech, easy, and cheap.  I want everyone to be able to so it witn no cutting or special tools.  I also want to keep the triangle box even if it's not used as an air cleaner, it looks nice.  You might be able to plumb a short manifold up to one of the cone type filters but if you keep the triangle box then there's really not too much room to work with.

Scott

Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2011, 06:58:39 PM »
Guess I came into the middle of an ognoing project without realising the goals.  Apologies.   But, that said , it leaves me with a few other questions.
If, as you say the box leaks, and the flow is from inside out, then that must mean that the air reaching the intake maniforld is not fully cleaned.   It would also mean that the stock set up would look "artificially " free flowing, since some of the incoming air can bypass the resistance of the fillter.  Then that may mean that even if you succeed in the quest for getteing a  freer flow  filte to fit , but simultaneously cure the leak, the only outcome may be cleaner air getting to the engine but no faster (since the total riesistance of the "performance " filter may equal the combined resistances of the stock filter plus the air leak.     Just a thought.    Nigel.   Going direct to intake outside in would give a direct measure of the filter itself.   

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2011, 07:04:58 PM »
I think the best answer is the stock filter and plastic cover, eventually  K&N will make a filter to fit properly. If not I'll try the method Shappers came up with.
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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2011, 07:12:59 PM »
Nigel, I originally was just looking to eliminate the leaks and reclaim the box as storage if I could.  I didn't really care about free-er flowing.  Checking my mileage, it looks like the conical S&B filter may be causing too much turbulence and that's not good.  I have to try a few more tanks of fuel to be sure it seems.

When the prescribed filter from K&N for stock replacement didn't seem to fit I was just curious if others would, which is why I looked at the Corvair filter.  So I could buy the $35 K&N or the $10 standard paper filter to test the theory.  I tried the paper and it seems to work, so a K&N probably will too.  I don't care too much about more flow with the larger paper filter but I'm sure some do and it's also a good thing to know if you're stranded with a clogged filter or they're on back order.

All said, I'm thinking about getting a free flow exhaust and it seems natural to pair that with a free flow intake.  So some of this research is for me and some is just for the good of the community.  Plus I love screwing around in the garage with my bike whenever I get the chance ;)

Scott

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2011, 03:30:10 AM »
Nigel, unlike most vehicles, the RE pulls air from the inside to the outside of the filter. 

The hinge is on the clean side of the air stream.  As such, anything that gets sucked through goes right to the throttle body.

Is this true for all RE bikes?  Mine (350 Electra, UCE engine) sure looks like it sucks in fresh air through a hole in the top-inside of the triangle box, then pulls through the filter, whose interior covers the hose leading out to the airbox, but I'm pretty new at this.

Just checking before I try and get a free-er flowing filter in there myself...thanks for any advice.

Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2011, 02:45:31 PM »
I meant to reply here but because I followed a link from this thread, my reply ended up being posted on the "conical filter thread"  No matter---itis all about filters, but if interested see my musings and a reply to them there.   Thanks, Nigel.

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2011, 04:27:28 PM »
No worries; thanks.  Ordered the e-0900 filter and am sure it'll work fine--I think my 350 even has the correct-sized mounting plate already.

Sort of a dumb question to ask, because whatever's going on in the box, replacing the filter with another, better filter in the same location pretty much means you've covered your bases, right?

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Re: K&N air filter testing
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2011, 05:43:42 PM »
Scot    Thanks for your reply   I got away from this thread for a few weeks and didn't get back to it until today.   Some life happened in between I guess.    Just a thought about the plastic air box sealing upgrades.  It seems to me that someone earlier suggested this might fix the poor sealing of the air filter endplates itsetlf:  I don't think this would be the case.  It would only stop outside air from getting sucked direct from the higes to the intake manifold.  Air slipping though under the rubber seals on the air filter unit would still happen if the sscrew down didn't tighten and seal.   Regarding the larger diameter (3 1/2 or 3 5/8) fillters , would another metal plate under the stock plate on the same mounting screw 9which might have to be longer ) fit and work?   .  Or what about getting the "lid" meant for the larger  filter unit (whatever machine it was meant for)  So long as the centre hole is the same size, a larger diameter lid to seal to the free end of the filter should work perfectly  and if they make the filter that size, someone must be making the lid.   Is there a rubber washer sealing the centre screw that holds the filter lid in place?  Nigel

Nigel,

I don't have my retrofit yet so I can't answer questions definitively but it may seal better on top too.  We'll have to wait and see.

The larger diameter Corvair filter fits and seals perfectly with the stock cover plate.  Even though the plate does not cover the entire filter the edge of the plate seats nicely in the middle of the rubber on the filter.  The filter is a larger diameter so it doesn't sit on the base flanges or get spread apart by them, it seal just fine there too.  It's also a smidgen taller so the stock top plate holds it in place more snugly than the stock filter.  I'm sure if you got the larger top plate (from the Machismo I think) that would work too.  If you just tape the hinge this makes a very good seal all around.

No, there is no rubber washer under the 13mm bolt that holds the top plate and I've never seen one on any car I've ever worked on.  Pressure alone here is enough to make a decent seal.

Scott

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