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Author Topic: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?  (Read 4794 times)

singhg5

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Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« on: February 18, 2011, 02:59:20 AM »
In my local auto store, they sell a lot of this Lucas fuel additive which supposedly cleans fuel injector and valves in cars.  Anyone used this in motorcycle ?  What do you think about trying it in RE EFI ?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 05:47:37 AM by singhg5 »
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Fuel Injector Cleaner for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 07:23:09 AM »
Remember your tank is small, these bottles are usually designed for 10-20 gallons ;)

Some of these things work, some don't.  Most do no harm in the recommended amounts.  Any reason you think you need your injector cleaned?

Scott

ace.cafe

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Re: Fuel Injector Cleaner for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 01:39:39 PM »
There's a good chance that it is completely unnecessary.
The alcohol that is already mixed in to the gasoline now, up to maybe 10% or even more in some places, is a powerful cleaning agent.

Most of the active ingredients in these injector cleaners are alcohols, and maybe some de-lacquering agent like Xylene..
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ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector Cleaner for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 03:05:53 PM »
Crappy motor fuel has asphalt and tar added to lower the vapor pressure of the volatile aromatics that it's made of. Continuous use of the fuel should NOT result in any buildup as ACE points out - the toluene and xylene are powerful solvents - as well as flammable.

That being said - IF an injector is truly in need of cleaning, it should be taken to a shop with the equipment to do it. This usually entails cramming solvent (toluene, acetone, xylene, etc ...) through the injector at around 150psig and cycling it through over and over for a half hour or so. Arbitrarily adding "stuff" to the fuel isn't going to do all that much - and you stand the risk of getting the crap on your paint and the GOOD stuff is usually pretty spendy. Just MY $0.02 worth ....... 
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector Cleaner for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 05:31:41 AM »
Most of the active ingredients in these injector cleaners are alcohols, and maybe some de-lacquering agent like Xylene..

Continuous use of the fuel should NOT result in any buildup as ACE points out - the toluene and xylene are powerful solvents - as well as flammable.

@ACE and @SB:

Toluene and xylenes are volatile and thin, runny liquids and powerful solvents.  

But this Lucas bottle has an OILY, THICK, VISCOUS liquid that supposedly LUBES the upper cylinder piston ring and cleans and lubes VALVES / Seat.  What do you think it may be ?  Do we need to clean the valves / seat of Bullet ?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 05:49:08 AM by singhg5 »
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Ice

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 09:34:46 AM »
A little SeaFoam added to the fuel now and then has been doing a good job reducing carbon deposits in my Iron Barrel.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 05:39:36 PM »
Singh, it might just be some detergent.  Before detergent motor oils motors had to be regularly disassembled and decarbonized.  Detergent motor oils keeps the carbon suspended in the oil, the way dish detergent keeps grease suspended in water.  Then the carbon just flushes out when you change the oil.

+1 on what SB said, if it needs to be cleaned send it to a shop that does that.

Scott

singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 07:38:03 PM »
A little SeaFoam added to the fuel now and then has been doing a good job reducing carbon deposits in my Iron Barrel.

@ICE:

I did some search and found that Lucas Fuel Additive contains Heavy Paraffinic Distillate, which is the same ingredient called Pale Oil in SeaFoam !!  This oily substance will lube the parts and also help in wiping off some of the carbon deposits.  The advantage of SeaFoam is that it also contains Isopropanol, which will get rid of water from the fuel, and naphtha which is a petroleum distillate that can act as solvent.

You have introduced me to a new and great product.  Thank you !

Singh,
+1 on what SB said, if it needs to be cleaned send it to a shop that does that.

@Scott:  I do not think that my bike's fuel injector has any problem - at least I don't know of any.  It is running great.  And I want to keep it running that way by taking preventative actions.  I want to avoid carbon deposition in engine or valves and I am looking for ways to prolong the engine life.  

PS - I have started a MSDS Composition Thread in Tech Tips that can help compare products based on their ingredients - it has SeaFoam and Lucas products.  

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,9767.0.html
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 07:43:46 PM by singhg5 »
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Ice

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 08:15:39 PM »
I have started a MSDS Composition Thread in Tech Tips that can help compare products based on their ingredients  
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,9767.0.html

Thank YOU Br.singhg !
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

robbw

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 03:01:26 AM »
Thanks Singh. This has been a helpful thread. I have been wondering myself it a fuel additive should be used on my bike, but never aggressively pursued it due to the different additives in these things. My local parts store has shelves of this stuff and reading all the ingredients make my head spin.    :-[ :-[

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2011, 03:17:01 AM »
Use name brand synthetic motorcycle or diesel oil and change it often, every 2k miles as recommended.  I like Mobil 1 R4T moto oil.  These have more of the cushioning sulphur compounds your gearbox needs that are now limited in auto oils for emissions reasons.  Synthetics stand up to the high heat of an air cooled engine better than mineral oils.  Also, buy good name brand gas.  Even economy grade gas has lots of detergents in it and is very good quality these days.

These two liquids will be higher quality than almost any off the shelf additives you buy and do way more to keep your bike healthy.

If you store your bike for any length of time in the winter, fill the tank to prevent condensation and fog the engine.  It protects it very well while it's sitting.

Forget the rest and spend your money on shiny bits and more gas money to ride ;)

Scott

ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 08:47:35 PM »
A little SeaFoam added to the fuel now and then has been doing a good job reducing carbon deposits in my Iron Barrel.

If I reduced the carboniferous deposits in MY Iron Barrel - it probably wouldn't run from lack of compression! Hahaha!!  ::)

All of you fellows are correct here - this thread IS a very informative one! Bravo Singhg5 for your discoveries of what "stuff" the additive are made from. Frightening, isn't it? I WILL add that the engineers at RE strongly warn against alcohol fuel additives in the RE as the extra oxygenation for the combustion process will lean the mixture by "fooling" the O2 sensor.
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

Tri750

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 05:56:11 AM »
Here in Cali, our gasoline is just bad. We get a summer and a winter blend, the winter evaporates faster and is anywhere from 10 to 20% alcohol.
Saying it's gasoline is a stretch. It's a poorly combustible liquid filled with odd chemicals.
In our bmw's we started getting bikes hard to start, poor idle, and just running crappy.
Pulling injectors showed flaky white deposits on the nozzles. BMW suggested we use the FI cleaner made for the cars that contains Thecron made by Chevron.
Liquid magic. One ounce per gallon solved all our problems within a few miles.
We now suggest it every few months.
I checked the MSDS sheets on our product vs. the chevron branded stuff sold at auto parts stores and Costco.
The BMW cleaner has 3 times the amount of Toulene than the other stuff.
It also contains a gas preservative, an anti oxidant and an anti corrosion additive.
For modern vehicles using the "film strip" type of fuel sender, this keeps things clean.
It's about 15.00 per 20oz. Bottle so it goes a long way.
it's approved for carby bikes as well and helps keep the pilot jets and passages clean as well.
Again, we Cali folks have a unique gasoline issue.
Sorry for the long post.
BA
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'73 Kaw Z1 racer
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ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 07:32:14 AM »
GOOD tip! It sounds like the research was done on this cleaner / conditioner - it has the mixture of mojo to work wonders cleaning up that miserable crap they call "gasoline".  ;)
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Ice

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 10:39:32 AM »
Here in Cali, our gasoline is just bad. We get a summer and a winter blend, the winter evaporates faster and is anywhere from 10 to 20% alcohol.
Saying it's gasoline is a stretch. It's a poorly combustible liquid filled with odd chemicals.
In our bmw's we started getting bikes hard to start, poor idle, and just running crappy.
Pulling injectors showed flaky white deposits on the nozzles. BMW suggested we use the FI cleaner made for the cars that contains Thecron made by Chevron.
Liquid magic. One ounce per gallon solved all our problems within a few miles.
We now suggest it every few months.
I checked the MSDS sheets on our product vs. the chevron branded stuff sold at auto parts stores and Costco.
The BMW cleaner has 3 times the amount of Toulene than the other stuff.
It also contains a gas preservative, an anti oxidant and an anti corrosion additive.
For modern vehicles using the "film strip" type of fuel sender, this keeps things clean.
It's about 15.00 per 20oz. Bottle so it goes a long way.
it's approved for carby bikes as well and helps keep the pilot jets and passages clean as well.
Again, we Cali folks have a unique gasoline issue.
Sorry for the long post.
BA


Thank YOU Sir for the valuable information and experience of your shop !
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

SSR

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2011, 11:22:34 AM »
Anyone ever used OWS(germany) additive products?

ROVERMAN

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 01:36:08 PM »
Techron fuel additive is a life saver.When i was working at a VW dealer in the 1980's it was recommended by Volkswagen for removing intake valve deposits.I have seen deposits on intake valves that looked like a primordial forest using a borescope completely eradicated with one tank treatment,it is the cat's meow.
Robert & REnfield.

ROVERMAN

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2011, 01:45:10 PM »
Oop's, i must be going senile.I now work with direct injection gas engines,and guess what?Techron is back in the picture for cleaning carboned-up injectors.

bob bezin

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2011, 04:00:36 PM »
how does that compair to sea foam?
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singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2011, 04:32:35 PM »
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ROVERMAN

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 04:48:14 PM »
Thanks Singh,that about sum's it up.

GreenMachine

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 05:37:18 PM »
Isn't it also a selling point with their fuel..chevron gas with techron in it??
Oh Magoo you done it again

singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 06:03:00 PM »
Anyone ever used OWS(germany) additive products?

Randhawa Ji:

Sat Sree Akaal.  Below is an Indian car website that has reviewed OWS 360 fuel additive in comparison to others available in India.  Can you buy it in your home town ?  If so, copy the MSDS sheet or the list of its ingredients from the Can.  Then we can compare it to what is sold in US.

http://www.tatasafariclub.com/node/246/image_gallery
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Tri750

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2011, 06:03:45 PM »
Isn't it also a selling point with their fuel..chevron gas with techron in it??

I cant comment on Sea Foam, never used it.

Chevron does use the Techron (was known as Techrolene) in their gas but its a small amount for everyday use. The concentrated stuff is for engines where there IS  a problem.
Shell has a simular additive as does Unocal.
Using the Costco Techron is probably good too but with the lower amount of active ingredient, youll have to do the math on what is the best buy.  We use it on bikes that have a problem or as a every few months "booster shot".
Again, ours is one ounce per gallon, 15.00 per 20 ounce bottle.
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singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2011, 06:34:22 PM »
how does that compair to sea foam?

Bob:

The ingredients in Sea Foam are very different from those of Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel Additive.  

Australian Chevron website states that Techron contains polybutene amines (PBA) and polyether amines (PEA).  There was no mention of what else it contains.  Assuming it is a mixture of several PBA and PEA compounds, it will act like a strong organic solvent.  Need more information on the exact composition to fully assess its functions.  

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/additives/tcp.aspx

Sea Foam however has 3 different ingredients, each doing different thing - it is a multi purpose additive - 1) It acts as solvent.  2) it acts as lubricant.  3) It removes water.  I have its composition listed in the MSDS thread in Tech Tips of the Forum.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 07:02:32 PM by singhg5 »
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SSR

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2011, 11:04:48 AM »
Sat Sree Akaal Singh Ji.

So far I have managed to locate three system cleaner available in my town.

A. OWS(Germany) for two wheelers- No info on content.

B. Wuerth(Germany) Petrol Additive-

1. Low boiling point hydrogen treated naptha
2. Propane-2-ol
3. kerosine
4. Hydrocarbylamine
5. Phenol, isobutylented
6. 2-(2-heptadec-8-enyl-2-imidazolin-1-yl)ethanol
7. (Z)-N-methyl-n-(1-oxo-9-octadecenyl)glycine
8. Napthalene

C. Cyclo(USA)- Max 44 total system cleaner - Contents
1.     Fuel oil, no. 2
2.   Xylene (mixed isomers)
3.   Ethylbenzene
4.   Naphthalene
5.   Polymer Amine Blend

What do you think which one sounds more promising?

Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2011, 11:27:46 AM »
I am jumping into this thread late and know absolutely nothng about engine fuel additives, but I had wondered in an earler thread whether the alcohol content variation in gasoline from region to region may account for some of the variability in performance (both speed and mileage) we see from owners on these threads/  SB's comment above on this thread regardign the potential to "fool" the oxygen sensors make we wonder that again.  Thoughts?    Nigel

ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 01:55:39 PM »
I am jumping into this thread late and know absolutely nothng about engine fuel additives, but I had wondered in an earler thread whether the alcohol content variation in gasoline from region to region may account for some of the variability in performance (both speed and mileage) we see from owners on these threads/  SB's comment above on this thread regardign the potential to "fool" the oxygen sensors make we wonder that again.  Thoughts?    Nigel
YES! The fuel blend will definitely affect mileage and performance - more ethanol - less mileage, percent for percent almost. It's exacerbated on a ONE cylinder engine because you FEEL every firing cycle, too .... one or two lean hiccups in a row and you are going "WTF????" ................
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 02:36:24 PM »
I think alcohol has about half the energy of gasoline when you burn it.  It's a very clean burning fuel but if you run a fuel like E-85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas) you need things like bigger injectors or carbs to deliver the fuel the engine needs and you get much less power for the same displacement.

Scott


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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2011, 02:59:54 PM »
My local station advertises premium with no methanol added, I hope they are telling the truth because that's what I run :D
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:57:38 PM by r80rt »
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singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2011, 03:10:17 PM »
Sat Sree Akaal Singh Ji.

So far I have managed to locate three system cleaner available in my town.

A. OWS(Germany) for two wheelers- No info on content.

B. Wuerth(Germany) Petrol Additive-

1. Low boiling point hydrogen treated naptha
2. Propane-2-ol
3. kerosine
4. Hydrocarbylamine
5. Phenol, isobutylented
6. 2-(2-heptadec-8-enyl-2-imidazolin-1-yl)ethanol
7. (Z)-N-methyl-n-(1-oxo-9-octadecenyl)glycine
8. Napthalene

C. Cyclo(USA)- Max 44 total system cleaner - Contents
1.     Fuel oil, no. 2
2.   Xylene (mixed isomers)
3.   Ethylbenzene
4.   Naphthalene
5.   Polymer Amine Blend

What do you think which one sounds more promising?


@SSR:

I really like your detailed observation and recording the proper names of these ingredients - you must have studied chemistry  :D.  

I will pick Wuerth Petrol Additive (Germany).  It has multi-functional ingredients.  It will clean, it will lubricate, it will remove water from gas and it could even help easier start in the winter.

A word of CAUTION - Some ingredients in most fuel additives have corrosive solvents that can attack rubber or gaskets or other parts that may come in contact with them.  It depends on the % of that solvent in the mixture.  Use them once in a while - say once in a few months.  
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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2011, 03:32:44 PM »
Try # 3   My earlier post flew out prematurely and the follow up disappearred in cyberspace. 
I was observing that the silence from the chorus to my rally cry for a "JUICED UCE" engine porting breathing thread was deafening.

Too Far?
     A Visionary ahead of his time?
           Just plain crazy? (where did I put that Thorazine)

Other names for the concept (Screaming Eagle  being taken and all......) staying with the American bird with presidential approval motif could be
      "PERKIN' TURKEY"   Ben Franklin's favourite)

or there is always "Speeding Bullet" .......

Just dreaming     .   No general begins a campaign thinking only of the first battle.  No harm in dreaming of turing something great into something superb is there?
Nigel

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2011, 04:09:32 PM »
Thank you Singh ji for your advice and I'll keep that in mind not to over use it. Wuerth it is then.

r80rt

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2011, 04:55:58 PM »
I haven't tried the Lucas in a bike, but it's good stuff in a Jeep.
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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2011, 05:29:59 PM »
My local station advertises premium with no methanol added, I hope they are telling the truth because that's what I run :D

I think most gas in this country is cut with ethanol, not methanol.

Scott

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2011, 05:33:17 PM »
Whatever, it's still crap.
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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2011, 05:42:36 PM »
i use the lucas..brought a gallon jug of it 2 years ago and hit all  the bikes a couple of times a year....seafoam the bikes a couple times of year too..nothing crazy, u know the ounce amount per gallon as recommended..so far, no problems on three bikes that are approximately 4-7 years old...I also make a point to shut the petcock off  about a 1/4 miles from the garage to empty the bowl a bit and keep the petcock in the off position when parked in the garage..Green Machine gets put to TDC as much as possible and always when parked overnight..ethanol is all these machines have known /10%...So I can't comment on the results of 100% gasoline as its not around here..
Oh Magoo you done it again

Ice

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I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

r80rt

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2011, 07:13:09 PM »
Yeah, the only reason I use that  premium is that is supposed to be alcohol free.
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olhogrider

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2011, 07:25:26 PM »
Free alcohol? Where's that station?

ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2011, 11:18:52 PM »
I think alcohol has about half the energy of gasoline when you burn it.  It's a very clean burning fuel but if you run a fuel like E-85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas) you need things like bigger injectors or carbs to deliver the fuel the engine needs and you get much less power for the same displacement.

Scott

No esta correcto. Hermano! Alky is less energy dense than petro-fuel - BUT - it's about 130 octane and since its oxygenated - the more you pile in, the better it runs .... think Wssota Modified Stock Cars - think Top Fuel Drag cars with nitroMETHANOL. There's plenty of GOOD to straight alky - taking seven gallons of petro-fuel to make eight gallons of it isn't one of its strengths. Neither is its energy density, but strictly as a motor fuel - +5! See my earlier posts on Henry Fords better idea of running his Model T Ford cars on home-brewed alky.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2011, 01:10:01 PM »
I think it only takes 4 gallons of oil to make five gallons of alcohol.  A little better than the ratio you posted, but still makes you wonder if it would be in gasoline at all if Ohio didn't voter first in the primaries :(  And yes, it's an excellent fuel in so many ways but is just much less energy dense. 

Couldn't the Model-T run on just about anything?  Alcohol. kerosene, gasoline, diesel, peanut oil?  And I think it gets in the neighborhood of 40-45mpg on many of those fuels.  Makes you wonder what we've been doing since then that that mileage is still considered outstanding.

Scott

ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2011, 02:52:27 PM »

Couldn't the Model-T run on just about anything?  Alcohol. kerosene, gasoline, diesel, peanut oil?  And I think it gets in the neighborhood of 40-45mpg on many of those fuels.  Makes you wonder what we've been doing since then that that mileage is still considered outstanding.

Scott

In that the Model T was built at the dawn of the combustion engine era, it WAS capable of running on a variety of fuels - although alky and gasoline did the trick best! The low compression (4:1) assured that detonation most likely would not occur - even with heptane or "drip gas". It was pretty common to "stretch" the gasoline in the day with cheaper kerosene and even lamp oil. I tried a "proven" 50/50 mix of kerosene and gasoline in the Dub-Nyepper once to validate the claims that I'd heard of their ability to run on this stinky mixture ....... yeah, other than the aweful smell - it ran just fine! I agree with you that technology isn't what it's cracked up to be on new, modern and wonderful cars. I had a first gen Honda Civic that would show me WELL into the 50mpg range on regular fuel with a little judicious driving. Of course, it didn't have 50 airbags, anti-lock brakes, traction control, heated leather seats, a rearview camera and On*Star ...... but for the mileage, I was happy to get fake sheepskin seat covers, turn around to back up and carry a DIME for a PAY PHONE .....  ;D
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1 Thump

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2011, 03:31:44 PM »
YES! The fuel blend will definitely affect mileage and performance - more ethanol - less mileage, percent for percent almost. It's exacerbated on a ONE cylinder engine because you FEEL every firing cycle, too .... one or two lean hiccups in a row and you are going "WTF????" ................

How does it affect performance though.

ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2011, 05:24:54 PM »
How does it affect performance though.

More ethanol = less energy dense = LEAN. It affects performance the same way a stopped up jet would while its rusting away anything ferrous that it touches and corroding anything alloy as well that it comes in contact with. Of course if one TUNES the engine for alky - the performance gains (and fuel economy lost!) can be astounding. Because it's virtually impossible to get alky to detonate, compression ratios of 15:1 are possible - and that takes the clap-trap, reciprocating, Otto-cycle thing to the upper right corner of the thermodynamically efficient chart. Think Top Fuel engine again here - 600 cubic inches - 8000+ horsepower. Don't try this at home ......  ;)
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Desi Bike

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2011, 02:13:26 AM »
Ha!

That's broaching on a question I've had for years.
In Canada  there are four grades of gasoline type fuel commonly available
The four  grades are:        Regular Unleaded     -  87 Octane  10% Ethanol
                                     Mid grade Unleaded  - 89 Octane     5% Ethanol
                                     Premium Unleaded     - 91 Octane     0% Ethanol
                                     Sunoco Ultra             - 94 Octane  100% Something
There is a round 4-6 cents difference in the price per litre between each grade. The higher ethanol content is cheaper fuel.

Here's my rambling question... More fuel is needed to be burned of the lower grade fuel to make the equivalent power obtainable in the higher grade fuel, such as premium @ 91 octane or Sunoco's 94 octane.  Does the use of lower grade fuel actually save money per KM (or mile or furlong etc) or will the higher grade save in the end? Does the cost per litre per bang for the buck work out as equal?
Are we robbing our engines of real gasoline to psychologically save a few cents per litre and end up burning more than those few cents we saved?



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ScooterBob

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2011, 02:23:07 AM »

Are we robbing our engines of real gasoline to psychologically save a few cents per litre and end up burning more than those few cents we saved?

A WINNAH!!! Premium fuels will usually give better fuel mileage as they are more energy dense with iso-octane - the stuff that REAL GAS-O-LINE is made from. You'd have to do the math on YOUR mileage - but I've found out that on most of my junque, it's very close to being a wash - so I just use the better stuff to prevent ethanol corrosion and get the good cleaners (toluene, xylene) that are found in better grade motor fuels.
Spare the pig iron - spoil the part!

Andy

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2011, 05:33:08 AM »
Huh.  I've always put the 91 Octane in the Slug because an extra 50 cents or a dollar on a fill-up seemed inconsequential.  I didn't know the lower grades were actually BAD for it. 
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singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2011, 12:34:14 AM »
          RESULTS OF LUCAS INJECTOR CLEANER & UPPER CYLINDER
                         LUBE / VALVE LUBE IN MOTORCYCLE


Nobody replied 'yes' to my question if any one had used the above product in their motorcycle.  So, I tried it in my G5 - turning it into a guinea pig.  

I added a little bit to my fuel tank a few days back.  Since then I have covered over 150 miles.  The results are pretty good.  These are my observations -

1.  The valve noise is less.
2.  The idle is more stable.
3.  The fluctuations in idle engine rpm, due to EFI doing its 'thing' are less.
4.  The pick up is better.
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Chris-G5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2011, 12:48:30 AM »
         RESULTS OF LUCAS INJECTOR CLEANER & UPPER CYLINDER
                         LUBE / VALVE LUBE IN MOTORCYCLE


Nobody replied 'yes' to my question if any one had used the above product in their motorcycle.  So, I tried it in my G5 - turning it into a guinea pig.  

I added a little bit to my fuel tank a few days back.  Since then I have covered over 150 miles.  The results are pretty good.  These are my observations -

1.  The valve noise is less.
2.  The idle is more stable.
3.  The fluctuations in idle engine rpm, due to EFI doing its 'thing' are less.
4.  The pick up is better.

How much of that little bottle did you put in? I've used it in my truck and did notice improvement in pick up.

singhg5

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Re: Fuel Injector & Valve Cleaner / Lube for Motorcycle ?
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2011, 12:56:27 AM »
How much of that little bottle did you put in? I've used it in my truck and did notice improvement in pick up.

Chris-

I did not measure, but my guess is about 1/2 to 1 ounce (15 to 30 ml) in my G5 gas tank.  My tank was almost full with gasoline at that time.  Don't need much.

That little bottle of about 5 oz can treat upto 25 gallons !  
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 01:54:40 PM by singhg5 »
1970's Jawa /  Yezdi
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