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Author Topic: False neutrals making me crazy(er)  (Read 2012 times)

David R

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False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« on: February 05, 2008, 02:11:37 AM »
 ???I finally got my ignition and carburetor  issues sorted out and now my usually sweet shifting five speed box is finding more neutrals than gears!! I try to be gentle  but deliberate. Don't know what happened. One thing that I do notice is that my clutch seems to both drag at times and slips slightly.  :-\

mbevo1

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2008, 02:56:33 AM »
David -

I found my five-speed/clutch seemed to be getting a little worse at the 2,000 - 3,000 mile point... turned out the clutch cable had stretched a tad, and the black plastic/nylon grit from the primary tension adjuster had kind of dirtied up the clutch plates.  I adjusted the clutch cable to zero slack (but not tight), and rinsed the primary case and clutch basket out with kerosene.  Changed the gearbox oil, too. Put her back together and its been fine since.  Guess I like the smell of the different oils... even the pungent gearbox oil... Now, when I change engine oil every 2,000 miles I change the primary and gearbox oil too.  By the way, the black grit from the primary tension adjuster went way down after the first flush.  Haven't really had to tighten the primary much, either.  Just like most things on my bike, I had to keep adjusting everything for the first couple thousand, then everything seemed to find a place it likes...

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 03:30:40 AM by mbevo1 »
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birdmove

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2008, 04:48:55 AM »
    So far my clutch is working great. No dragging and no trans grinding at all. I do miss some shifts, but thats usually if I don't do a nice deliberate shift. If I try to rush it thats where the problem occurs,and that includes downshifting too.

    jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii

Spitting Bull

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2008, 10:18:49 AM »
I don't know if this will help, but one way of avoiding false neutrals is to slightly alter the way you change gear.  Pull in the clutch, move the gear lever up or down and then hold the lever with your foot and don't release it until you have released the clutch.  Then let the gear lever return to its central position.  The Albion gearbox is a survivor of the kind of boxes which were in use over 50 years ago, and in those days, many manufacturers described this method of gear changing in their owners' handbooks, quoting it as the correct way to change gear.

I use this method going up or down the box and no longer get false neutrals ( I used to get a lot when I first got the bike).

Tom
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Leonard

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2008, 12:43:30 PM »
  How many miles do you have on the bike?  They shift better to more miles you put on.  First I would check the clutch cable behind the inspection plate.  You might want to consider adding three heavy duty clutch springs or shimming three springs with washers.  Adjustment is critical and half a turn on the adjustment will make a difference.
  I don't have the post at hand but somewhere Kevin posted instructions on adjusting the 5-speed and the bottom line was to adjust as tight as you dare.

???I finally got my ignition and carburetor  issues sorted out and now my usually sweet shifting five speed box is finding more neutrals than gears!! I try to be gentle  but deliberate. Don't know what happened. One thing that I do notice is that my clutch seems to both drag at times and slips slightly.  :-\
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fredgold52

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2008, 12:52:40 PM »
I have found shifting my 5-speed to be easy and a good experience.  With only 230 miles on it, I'm looking forward to what it will become.   

I consider the neutral I sometimes find between 2nd and 3rd to be a bonus, something extra I didn't pay for.  I can tell when it's going to go into a neutral there and I just let it do it.  Really not a problem to push down on the shifter twice when getting ready to take off.

As far as having to hunt for neutral when stopped in 1st, yeah - that can be a chore.  My scooter does that even after 14,000 miles.  As with the scooter, I think a person will eventually learn to get the bike into neutral just before coming to a full stop.  I emphasize FULL stop because even here in rural Illinois, we have our share of "California Stops". 
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David R

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 01:51:45 AM »
Thanx for the responses.I intend to adjust the clutch at my first opportunity. I did just change the oil in the trans. However, there is an odd hole in the to of the gearbox that appears to be a casting flaw. I just washed the bike and I wonder if I got water in to the gear box and if so, would it effect anything? Perhaps I'll change it again to see how it looks.

LotusSevenMan

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 07:31:20 AM »
David R.
I can't comment on the five speed as never had a chance to ride a left changer (I'm a Classic right foot four man myself!) but water into anything like a g'box is never a good thing. Machine steel that isn't covered in oil/grease can rust while you look at it! Draggin' clutches also won't help so suggest you try what the good chaps on here have suggested re. this fault. They certainly sound plausible.
Suggest a few words with your dealer too etc.
Good luck and I hope the changes get sweeter soon.  ;)
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

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David R

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 11:23:34 PM »
Today I adjusted the clutch behind the inspection plate. Backed off a half turn and back in until I felt resistance as per the manual. Shifting much better! Now it isn't as easy to find the real neutral. Oh well, it's a process.

LotusSevenMan

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 03:21:45 PM »
David R

Can't find the 'true' neutral now?
Welcome to the club!
I find it is best to get neutral as you roll to a stop rather than try and find it static. Works for me and I have VERY FEW cases of finding a mid ratio false neutrals whilst actually riding.
In fact, as the miles pass it's getting better and better. More 'snick' than clunk!
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin

jonapplegate

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 04:50:17 PM »
ya, clutch adjustment at first does seem to be the key and it is touchy to get it right. Always seems to be slightly to much or too little. False neutrals or can't find neutral. I have had the same experience as the original poster. Shifts are real good at first and then through natural break-in wear and cable stretch you are going to definitely enjoy feeling your gearbox change. I swear mine goes back and forth from day to day without me having touched a thing. 

LotusSevenMan

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Re: False neutrals making me crazy(er)
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 06:17:13 PM »
Jon.
Wonder if that 'iffy' feel is due to cable 'stretch' and it not having got to its final settled, maximum stretch position?
If it ain't broke-------------------------- fix it 'till it is!

Royal Enfield Miltary 500cc  (2003)
Honda VTR FireStorm (SuperHawk) 996cc 'V' twin
Kawasaki KR1 250cc twin 'stroker
Ducati 916 'L' twin