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Author Topic: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement  (Read 1583 times)

no bs

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3200 miles and the links they are a'kinkin'! any help?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 09:12:48 PM by no bs »
killing bugs since 1972 2011 g5 deluxe

barenekd

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 10:17:10 PM »
Get rid of the stocker. Get a Tsubaki or DID.
Bare
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no bs

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 10:28:29 PM »
thanks,i've been looking at the local cycle gear. all they have on the shelf are oring 530 chains. no clue what a RE MAY be. actually had one guy ask  "royal enfield? who makes that?"
killing bugs since 1972 2011 g5 deluxe

Royalista

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 02:18:30 AM »
thanks,i've been looking at the local cycle gear. all they have on the shelf are oring 530 chains. no clue what a RE MAY be. actually had one guy ask  "royal enfield? who makes that?"
hm, the Eicher Group... in the largest democracy in the world
 :o you no know that? how  :o
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 10:35:18 PM »
Get rid of the stocker. Get a Tsubaki or DID.
Bare

+1.  A good non-o-ring 530 chain should only be about $35-40.  Replace it now before it eats your sprockets.

Scott

hortoncode3

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 02:54:28 AM »
Change to a  PREMIUM O-ring chain..before you trash the sprockets, like I did. What a pain in the ass to change. And get one with a clip master link. The riveted ones suck.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 03:31:12 AM »
If you go to an o-ring chain on the G5 you also need to get a larger front sprocket (18t I believe) for clearance issues.  The C5 can run an o-ring chain as is, already has the 18t.

Scott

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 10:22:19 PM »
tried to get munroe motors to install 18t sprocket and oring chain while repacing seal; they had it over a month and told me they couldn't source part. don't want to take the cover off while the warranty is still in effect. i can live with a regular old chain for now.
killing bugs since 1972 2011 g5 deluxe

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 10:36:52 PM »
I swapped from my C5 o-ring to a standard when mine died.  It was just $35 and a few minutes to change it.  Beats $100+ for an o-ring chain, plus the cost of a new sprocket and socket to remove/install it.

FWI, removing and re-installing the side cover is no big deal when you're ready to do it.  You will need to drain and refill the engine oil to do it.

Scott

Royalista

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 01:46:18 AM »
If you go to an o-ring chain on the G5 you also need to get a larger front sprocket (18t I believe) for clearance issues.  The C5 can run an o-ring chain as is, already has the 18t.

Scott
I have a stock o-ring chain from a C5 mounted on my E5 (which is identical to G5 and B5); still have the standard 17 tooth front sprocket.
I have no clue why it fits and works, against all reports that it can't or won't or whatever but here it is: it does and very well so for over 4000km as per now.
As shamelin suggested in another thread perhaps the stock o-ring chains differ from the usual o-ring chains. As said before I have no clue why but the experience that it works.

Just another proof of the mysterious ways the bullet works?
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 02:54:45 AM »
The C5 chains have the thinnest o-rings I have ever seen, so they are the narrowest o-ring chains I've ever seen.  There is some variance in width between manufacturers for 530 o-ring chains, if its too wide it will rub the side on the case with the smaller cog.  The larger cog puts it up past that interference point. How wide is too wide?  Wish I had andefinitive answer for that ;)

Scott

barenekd

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 04:26:06 PM »
Quote
The C5 chains have the thinnest o-rings I have ever seen, so they are the narrowest o-ring chains I've ever seen.

Those chains also have the thinnest metal I've seen on chains which adds to the narrowness. They are really cheapo chains. I can list more flaws, but I don't want to bore you.
Bare
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 05:46:33 PM »
+1.

Royalista

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 11:16:46 PM »
So there it is, mystery solved.
Being my first o-ring chain ever I couldn't compare. Logical as it is I found it hard to merely accept that much difference between manufacturers.

Even when not as good as the competition, it does beat the stock non o-ring chain. 4000km plus, adjusted by just one notch of the camshells. Barenekd, I hope you're not thinking of safety issues?

Cheapo? I paid e49.50 which is 50% more than the non o-ring and I expect it to last way much longer. Will it outlast the pricier Regina I had in mind prior? Oh, choices... ::)

So I went for o-ring and holding on to the stock front sprocket, retaining the better torque.
Isn't it always a game of check and balances?

moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

squire

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 02:24:09 AM »
Anyone know how many links I need on a stock C5?
Thanks.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 03:22:23 AM »
102 for C5.  101 for G5/B5 but a 102 will work too.

Scott

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 03:26:00 AM »
I'm pretty sure the C5 uses a 102 link chain.  The smaller sprocket on the E5 and G5 calls for a 101 link chain but I found that a 102 link chain will work and still leave a couple notches on the adjustment snail cams for future adjustment.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

barenekd

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 06:58:36 PM »
Quote
Will it outlast the pricier Regina I had in mind prior? Oh, choices... ::)

Don't get the cheap Reginas. They are pretty much as crappy as the Indian chains!
Quote
Barenekd, I hope you're not thinking of safety issues?


No just thinking of why the chains are such junk! I took my original chain apart and after the old bearing pieces had fallen out, I found that they were split and just rolled bearing instead of being solid tube. Then comparing them to other chains, the thinness of the plates was pretty obvious why they don't last. When you shop for chains, start comparing the overall with and the thickness of the material along with the tensile strength of the chains. If I can't find that info, I'd look someplace else!
Bare
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Royalista

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 10:21:10 PM »
Thanks for the info barenekd. I'll keep it in mind. Isn't that rabbithole way deep, or what?
Don't bash Regina too hard. It's well regarded off-road.
Nor would I call them cheap  :'( See, the ones I was considering were a reinforced non o-ring (24.51mm width, 34kN tensile strength, 1.54kg @ 69.50 euro) and the o-ring (24.58mm, 34kN tensile strength, 1.64kg @ 72.50 euro). 34000N is 7644lbs and I guess that should be more than enough for the brave Bullet.
So, what figures would you prefer? Yeah, you know which ones I mean  ;D
Kidding aside, anyone knows tensile strength and weight for C5's o-ring chain?

moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 11:21:21 PM »
Tensile strength isn't all there is to it.  The cheapest chains have enough tensile strength to handle a liter sport bike BUT if your metal is cheap, precision low, and bearing surfaces thin then the thing wears out fast no matter what.  It's all got to be quality to last.

Scott

Jack Leis

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 11:37:55 PM »
Ive got about 12 to 14 thousand miles on a DID non O-Ring , middle of the line chain. Ive only had to adjust it 2 or 3 times and the sprockets look great. I keep it well lubed, I can tell because there is chain lube all over everything ! I oil it after a good ride when the chain is warm. The best thing I ever did for my G5 was replace the piece of crap factory chain. Just my 2 cents.
I would much rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow    Jack

Ducati Scotty

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2013, 12:00:57 AM »
I used the same kinda chain, $35 DID.  Through a combination of laziness and failed lubing experiments I did not take such good care of it and it shows, it has stretched a good bit in about 6,000 miles and I'll probably swap it later this winter.  Just saying, keep it lubed like Jack says. 

Oh, and though it has stretched it is not binding anywhere.  Good chain.

Scott

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2013, 12:30:44 AM »
$35 that's 27 euro. That's a bargain.

Ducati Scotty: +1 on the previous. It's all in quality.
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Craig McClure

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 04:58:23 AM »
My pre-owned 2010 G5 Deluxe came with a DIAMOND brand chain & @3.5k miles it seems just fine. Anybody else use them? Believe DIAMOND is a classic USA brand. I used one many years ago, don't know about their reputation today. Thanks...
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 12:39:45 AM »
If you get out your magnifying glass and look closely at the links you will find that yes, it is a Diamond chain but it is also stamped, "India".

As badly as the "Diamond/India" chain that came on my 2011 G5 wore I'm sure it was made in India and it doesn't meet Diamond/USA's requirements.
After 3700 miles I had to adjust it 3 times and after the last time I noticed that the sideways slop was getting really noticeable.

I bought a USA made Diamond chain at 3750 miles and now have 8500 miles on the bike.
In the 4750 miles since installing the USA made chain I have only needed to adjust the chain once.

Speaking of the G5, it uses a 101 link chain.  This odd number requires a 1/2 link and finding major brands (including Diamond USA) who make one is almost impossible.
With this in mind, I bought the 102 link 530 standard chain and found that it fits the G5 nicely.  The only effect was the adjusting snail's are now rotated to the point that there are only 4 more notches to go before it runs out of notches.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Craig McClure

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 04:09:57 PM »
I'm replacing that india-Diamond chain with an RK-TAKASAGO Japanese chain. I understand these offer good value for the money.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

trimleyman

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2013, 02:02:57 AM »
no bs, got my 2011 G5 from Munroe also , they offered to do the sprocket swap but as my bike is a daily ride I declined and waited for the original chain to wear out. Sourcing parts took me to India and the UK via the net, India for the rear drum/sprocket and the UK for the 18 tooth front.Both arrived in 7 days. I fitted an o-ring chain also sourced on-line but from a US supplier. The Indian drum/sprocket had good quality sprocket teeth but the drum did not look honed like the original. I was a little concerned at first but thought , give it a try. Back brake had been scary at best leaving much to be desired prior to the change. Now I have a rear brake that I can actually confidently use. The swap of all parts was very straight forward following a visit to You-tube. Having changed the original silencer for an Indian short bottle prior to the sprocket change the bike took off like a scalded cat. Now with the sprocket change it's halfway between the cat and original. Fuel consumption is improved.
Now 2011 Royal Enfield G5 and just added 2014 Continental GT
Then:-
1978 Ducati 900 GTES
1969 Ducati 350 Desmo Racer
1972 Mototrans Ducati 250 24 Horas
1965 Triumph Tiger Cub 200
1967 BSA Bantum

no bs

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2013, 05:41:48 PM »
thanks trimleyman.you say the rear braking is an improvement?
killing bugs since 1972 2011 g5 deluxe

barenekd

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Re: definitive 2011 g5 deluxe final drive chain non-oring replacement
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2013, 06:41:11 PM »
The rear brake can be made to be quite effective.
Here is the post I did a year or so ago about the process.
Quote
   
I did get to work on my brakes last Saturday and get the rear brake properly centered. It's working quite well now. But for you who don't think the brakes work decently on these bikes, Jack took the lead going down San Gabriel Canyon and it's a pretty good long downhill run. It drops from about 6,000' to 2,000' in about 10 miles of fairly tight twisties with some occasional short straights. I got up over 80 on a couple of those trying to catch back up with him. He was going pretty fast, so it was a long time trying to close the initial gap I let him get. He was definitely working me!
Coming into some of those turns and slowing down quickly to 20-25 took some severe braking and I found that the K-70s could definitely be locked up of both ends with the proper amount of pressure. Guys complain about the feel, but I think the brakes offer very good feedback. The harder you squeeze, the more they impede your flow! It's a very linear feeling. They're not going to do 2 fingered stoppies, but you're not going to be surprised by one, either. The braking distance isn't going to be down with a Superbike, but the tires are the limiting factor, not the brakes. You just don't have all the rubber on the ground, nor the tire compound to get all that much traction. But, within the tire limitations, the brakes are all they should be.
As for setting up the rear brakes, put the bike of the center stand, loosen the axle nut, the brake hub nut and the brake pivot nut. That's the one on the brake backplate in front of the axle. Might want to check and adjust the chain while you're there. Do that before you start working on the brake.
Tighten the brake adjustment down so the wheel is tightly locked. This will center the brake shoes, and ensure that both shoes are hitting the brake drum when the brake is applied. Torque the Hub Nut, then the axle nut, then the  pivot pin nut. Back off the brake adjustment until it is just free so the wheel will spin. You shouldn't have any drag. A couple of notches, (a half to one turn) of the adjusting nut should have it going from locked to drag free rotation. If there is still some dragging a little after another half turn or so, you are probably not quite centered. The brake pedal movement should by quite short between completely free to locked. On the long stock it might need to move a 1/4" or so. My rearsets with the shot pedal is about 1/8". The brakes should be able to lock up the rear wheel, but it will take some pressure, but they will feel better over the whole range.
The next time you have to take the wheel off, take the brake off and grease the brake actuating cam lightly. It will keep you brakes from sticking. There have been a few reports from the iron barrel guys about brakes sticking and breaking! The grease will help alleviate that.
Not much can be done with the disk brakes, other than, of they are soft and take a lot of travel, they probably need to be bled. Those brakes don't take a whole lot of fluid, so I do them from the top. Run a clear hose from the bleeder fitting to a pan and submerge the end  in some brake fluid.  Put a loop in the hose so you can see if air is pumping out of the caliper.Take the cap off the master cylinder and fill the reservoir with DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. loosen the bleeder about a quarter to a half turn and squeeze the brake lever. Hold the lever in and close the bleeder, Let the handle out, open the bleeder and squeeze the lever again and and again holding the lever in, close the bleeder again let the lever out keep an eye on the reservoir and fill it before it can get to the bottom of the reservoir. Continue the pumping process until all the air has been run out of the hose.
It doesn't really take too much fluid to completely replace the existing fluid. When you're satisfied the air has been pushed out of the caliper, close the bleeder and try the brake. It should have a very solid feel without a lot of travel. If it has a lot of travel but feels solid, fill the reservoir and replace the cap Make sure the bleeder is closed and remove the hose
To get rid of the excess travel, squeeze the lever very hard and hold it for several seconds. This will push the pucks out farther and keep the lever from having to move so far. Repeat this action a few times and the lever travel should shorten up. This is an exercise I use while sitting at stoplights. Keeps the brakes tuned a bit better.
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
2011 Black Classic G5 (RIP)
I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
http://www.controllineplans.com