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November 20, 2009, 06:51:42 PM

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Author Topic: Oil Loss  (Read 983 times)
hoppyre
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Posts: 49

06 Bullet Sixty-5. 09 Suzuki Tu250x


« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2009, 05:00:38 AM »

What about the sump drain plugs? Do they have the hole in them so the return pump can return the oil to the tank? If they were partially blocked, the oil level in the sump would be higher causing more pressure and blow-by. And since he has an AVL engine, it has gear pumps not piston pumps. The oil flow to the head should be more of an even flow, not a lub-dub-lub kind of way.
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ace.cafe
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« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2009, 06:19:58 AM »

Well, in that video, it appeared to be alot better than before, because I didn't see any huge amount of oil coming out the duckbill, and most of the discharge stayed in the forward part of the breather tube, like it is supposed to do, and drained back down.
It seems better.

Here's a question.
Do you ever get this bike warmed up enough to clear out all the mayo, and only have pure oil in the breather tube?
Or do you have mayo all the time?

Regarding compression, from what I've heard people report, about 145 psi seems to be the normal compression for an AVL.
I think that the lower it is below 145 psi, the more probability that it is a problem.

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Geirskogul
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2009, 12:32:55 PM »

I don't really think it's an oil in the combustion chamber problem, at least.  Here's two shots of my sparkplug after warming the bike up for a minute or two this morning.  It's a little dusty/matte black around the edges, but I did have the choke on.  Electrode is a nice chocolate grey


* Photo0047.jpg (529.02 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 19 times.)

* Photo0046.jpg (544.12 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 15 times.)
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ace.cafe
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« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2009, 01:23:46 PM »

I don't really think it's an oil in the combustion chamber problem, at least.  Here's two shots of my sparkplug after warming the bike up for a minute or two this morning.  It's a little dusty/matte black around the edges, but I did have the choke on.  Electrode is a nice chocolate grey

Well, that's a good sign if the plug isn't oily.

Have you tried running it on the centerstand with the tappet adjustment cover off, to see if there's high pressure in the oil return areas?
You might try it, and see if it affects anything one way or the other.
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PhilJ
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« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2009, 04:11:51 PM »

From what you've said about checking the oil I think you've overfilled the bike. Example, you mentioned checking oil cold. On my AVL checking cold will often show no oil or just on the tip. Checking after a ride with the bike very warm, waiting 2 to 5 minutes I get a proper reading.
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Geirskogul
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« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2009, 04:32:45 PM »

The problem isn't oil level, it's the fact that I lost almost all of my oil on one short ride.  As in, when I got back and the bike was hot, it was just about empty.  It's going somewhere.
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When you fall you fall no matter how cautious you are, so you should live life to the fullest prepared for that day.

When an idiot thinks, it's the same as not thinking at all!
ace.cafe
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« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2009, 04:49:35 PM »

The problem isn't oil level, it's the fact that I lost almost all of my oil on one short ride.  As in, when I got back and the bike was hot, it was just about empty.  It's going somewhere.

Did you ever check to see if it was going into your primary, thru that hose from the timing chest to the primary?
If the primary is over-full, it may have been going into there.
It has been observed by others that oil does go up that small hose, and that's why they put a one-way drain valve in that hose with the catch can.
I think that's worth checking the primary oil level.
I have recommended checking that earlier in this thread.
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UncleErnie
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« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2009, 05:35:49 PM »

I was thinking like Phil, but decided to just watch.
I think the only way to know for sure if it's over-filled or really is disappering is to drain trhe oil and see how much comes out.
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scoTTy
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« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2009, 07:59:41 PM »

that's a start  Smiley
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Geirskogul
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« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2009, 10:24:16 PM »

Another video.  I made a temporary catchcan out of a kitty treat can and some 1/2" hose barbs - when running you can't see into the can at all; the sides are covered in oil running down.  At throttle it still blows oil out of the back of the bike a little bit, but not as bad as it was.  Also quite a bit of oil collects and it ends up filling the can to about 1/4, then it all drains back down into the bike when stopped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37hiGGPI5o



* Photo0048.jpg (937.17 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 18 times.)

* Photo0049.jpg (767.41 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 21 times.)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 11:00:15 PM by Geirskogul » Logged

When you fall you fall no matter how cautious you are, so you should live life to the fullest prepared for that day.

When an idiot thinks, it's the same as not thinking at all!
ace.cafe
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« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2009, 06:17:35 AM »

That bottle creates a widening effect to the extent that the pressure drops when it gets in the bottle,so that it can't push the oil out, and the oil collects at the bottom of the bottle.
It's like a "bubbler".
That could work.

However, that amount of oil that's in that bottle is probably more than my bikes spews in a year.
You have a problem.
The bottle might be a band aid, but it's not a fix.
The underlying issue still remains, but I don't know exactly what it is.
I can run at highway speeds, with bursts up to 80mph, and not push any significant amount of oil out the breather, except for a very small amount in an atomized mist.
I go months without needing to top up my oil.

Perhaps your rings are not fully broken-in yet.
At 1300 miles, that's possible.
Although they should be about broken-in, if you didn't get a bore glazing problem, and you didn't ever run synthetic oil during break-in..
I would get that synthetic oil out of the bike, and run dino oil until 2000 miles, and see if the spewing reduces.
During break-in, synthetic oil is the worst possible choice.
Synthetic oil essentially prevents the rings(and the engine) from ever breaking in.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 06:27:12 AM by ace.cafe » Logged

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UncleErnie
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« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2009, 08:11:05 AM »

I can't imagine getting 80 out of my Pellet.   Amazing.
Maybe I just don't wait long enough...
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Geirskogul
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The world isn't beautiful, therefore it is.


« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2009, 12:56:37 PM »

Oh no, I just put the bottle there to see exactly how much oil it was spewing and to make it easier to show to you guys.  I've since taken it off.

I just wonder... Compression is okay, plug isn't oily, and it never used to do this.  This oil spewing coincides almost exactly with the colder weather and mayo-y buildup.  I used to just have that short four or five inch tube go straight down onto the chain, and there was almost no spewing and I had gotten into the habit of checking my oil weekly or bi-weekly, because it would NEVER LOSE ANY.  Suddenly it spews it left and right, so I put the longer tube on an you see what's actually going on. 

PITA
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When you fall you fall no matter how cautious you are, so you should live life to the fullest prepared for that day.

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Chasfield
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Posts: 737



« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2009, 01:06:17 PM »

I am a little vague about the internal chambering of Bullet engines in general because I haven't split one yet and had a good look around. However, the Youtube clip seems to show that the actual oil tank  is getting pressurised in some way.

The root back to the oil tank for circulated oil is spill over from the timing case (is it not?). Therefore, could it be that the push rod tunnel and timing case are being pressurised by head gasket blow-by.

Or is there something wrong with the over all breather set up, so that the oil tank is being pressurised by crank case pumping?  That is,  regular crank case content that should be being vented.
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2001 500 Bullet Deluxe
ace.cafe
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« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2009, 01:11:29 PM »

Oh no, I just put the bottle there to see exactly how much oil it was spewing and to make it easier to show to you guys.  I've since taken it off.

I just wonder... Compression is okay, plug isn't oily, and it never used to do this.  This oil spewing coincides almost exactly with the colder weather and mayo-y buildup.  I used to just have that short four or five inch tube go straight down onto the chain, and there was almost no spewing and I had gotten into the habit of checking my oil weekly or bi-weekly, because it would NEVER LOSE ANY.  Suddenly it spews it left and right, so I put the longer tube on an you see what's actually going on. 

PITA

Well, you can try the short hose again, and see if it helps.
I don't see how it could, but who knows?
I haven't been able to figure it out, so I suppose anything is possible at this point.

If you feel that the mayo is making the difference, maybe you can venture some guesses as to why your bike is getting so much more than all the others.
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