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Author Topic: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?  (Read 5371 times)

retrobikeguy

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Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« on: April 25, 2011, 03:09:28 AM »
Are there any brighter neutral light and turn signal indicator LED replacement bulbs?  They are hard to see in bright sunlight.
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GSS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 04:15:05 AM »
Yes there are. I got some nice LEDs for the C5 and also added extra front and rear side marker lights. I will dig up the receipt tomorrow evening and post the exact bulb types that I purchased from superbrigntleds for the neutral and turn signal.

Regards,

GSS
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prof_stack

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 04:16:03 AM »
Good question.  The voltmeter gauge on my C5 lets me know when the turn signals are on while idling.  Lower voltage replacements would be nice.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 05:04:10 PM »
Any tips on a solid state flasher replacement?  I know most flashers go double speed when they only have LEDs instead of the relatively heavy drain of incandescent bulbs.  Unless you add resistors but then you don't get the low drain benefits.

After replacing my burnt out tail light I'm thinking more about the longer life LED bulbs.

Scott

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 05:09:23 PM »
Any auto parts store should stock electronic flashers,well worth the cost IMHO. I get mine from NAPA.
 In a pinch they can be sourced from auto wrecking yards.

 
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Sub

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 07:03:15 PM »
Yes there are. I got some nice LEDs for the C5 and also added extra front and rear side marker lights. I will dig up the receipt tomorrow evening and post the exact bulb types that I purchased from superbrigntleds for the neutral and turn signal.

Regards,

GSS

Do you have any pics of them? How much brighter? Does it fill the brake light area better, or is it more of a spot type bulb? My experience with leds is that they have a very narrow usable beam pattern - great on axis, but off axis, as dim or dimmer than oem.
I want a new light for my brake light.. I have the highest wattage in there, and its still a bit dim (I have aftermarket housing). I was thinking about this one
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fspecs%2F1157_LED_spider_light.htm#photos


BTW, is our brake light bulb base a 1157 type right??
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 07:44:32 PM by Sub »

GSS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 12:22:59 AM »
Here is the list of complete LED bulbs for a C5. I tried 2 different 1157 bulbs for the tail light. The 30-LED BA15 on line 1 is very dim, and the Motorcycle Tail 19-LED on line 2 is much brighter, but still not as good as the OEM incandescent. Both were a waste of time and money as there is little if any illumination of the sides of the light.

Moving on to the smaller bulbs...see attached invoice for specific part numbers as they have multiple variants on superbrightleds.
1 BA7 amber for the fuel light
1 BA7 red for the Royal Enfield logo (LED lights do not work for the check engine light so you don't need to buy a second one)
4 BA9 cool white for the 2 tiger eyes, pilot bulb and backlighting for the speedometer
2 BA9 green for neutral and "trafficator" light
1BA9 blue for high beam

These little lights do a great job - nice and bright in full sunlight.

Regards,

GSS
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 12:41:55 AM »
I wonder if the check engine light failed to work because the polarity in the socket was backwards.  The D in LED stands for diode, and diodes only pass electricity in one direction.

Scott

GlennF

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 01:45:06 AM »
Here is the list of complete LED bulbs for a C5. I tried 2 different 1157 bulbs for the tail light. The 30-LED BA15 on line 1 is very dim, and the Motorcycle Tail 19-LED on line 2 is much brighter, but still not as good as the OEM incandescent. Both were a waste of time and money as there is little if any illumination of the sides of the light.

Moving on to the smaller bulbs...see attached invoice for specific part numbers as they have multiple variants on superbrightleds.
1 BA7 amber for the fuel light
1 BA7 red for the Royal Enfield logo (LED lights do not work for the check engine light so you don't need to buy a second one)
4 BA9 cool white for the 2 tiger eyes, pilot bulb and backlighting for the speedometer
2 BA9 green for neutral and "trafficator" light
1BA9 blue for high beam

These little lights do a great job - nice and bright in full sunlight.

Regards,

GSS

With the BA9 size LEDs I just went with all white ones. The speedo has a colored bezel anyway so I could not see any point chasing up fancy colored ones.

The only issue I had was with the flasher indicator in the speedo. With an LED bulb fitted (I tried several as I had spares) both left and right flashers behaved normally but the speedo indicator only lit for the RHS flasher. Very odd.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 03:55:32 AM »
Interesting.  If it only works one way I think it's a polarity thing, but I'll be darned if I can think of a sensibly wired circuit offhand that would do that :)

Scott

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 05:10:33 AM »
Interesting.  If it only works one way I think it's a polarity thing, but I'll be darned if I can think of a sensibly wired circuit offhand that would do that :)

Scott

nah ... its a voltage thing

Unlike normal bulbs that light up even with just one volt and get brighter as you increase the voltage LEDs have a threshold voltage.  basically ... below the threshold voltage you get zada, no lights, not a thing. Hit the threshold voltage and you get full illumination. Sort of an all on or all off thing.

Clearly my LHS flasher system is not providing enough volts to the indicator socket while the RHS wiring is.  What i cannot figure out is why the LHS voltage is low and RHS is OK. Earth fault ? I could stick a voltmeter on it and check but its too much hassle.

BTW ... this is most likely the issue people are having with the engine sensor light as well, not enough volts.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 05:12:46 AM by GlennF »

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 06:38:44 AM »
I'm guessing the problem is that you've got one dodgy connector somewhere on the left side dropping the voltage just enough.

Scott

palace15

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 06:46:46 PM »
Hi
I have just changed to LED's and like a couple of previous posters I have also found that the indicator/trafficator warning light in the speedo only flashes on right hand and not on the left, so I have gone back to the original bulb 8) ::)anyone out there got the problem sorted yet?
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barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 06:58:39 PM »
I got the turn signals sorted out. I left the regular bulbs in those. The rest are LEDs. The taillight LED works great, I follow one around all the time. Quite bright. Sometimes I think his brake light is on. But it snot.
Make SURE you get the -4s- bulbs for the indicator lights, the -s- are no better than stock.
Bare
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palace15

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 07:08:30 PM »
I left stock bulbs in the actual indicators, I must admit I am not too impressed with the stop/tail LED, what is the one you reccommend?
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2013, 02:48:42 AM »
This has been asleep for awhile, but...

As for led indicator lights, there seem to be two different beam angle specs available on the BA9s lights - 32 degrees and 90 degrees.  Any strong arguments either way?

Can anyone comment on the brightness of the LEDs used to illuminate the speedo?  I want the indicator lights brighter, but I am happy with the OEM brightness of the speedo backlight.  Maybe I'll order a pair of "4s" and a pair of "s" bulbs for comparison.

I'm thinking about fitting LEDs in my pilot lights, but I sure don't like the bright blue-white light... I rather prefer Gremlin's approach of the old-fashioned-er dim incandescent look.  Maybe I'll get some LEDs and try coating them - I've got clear coat finishes with all kinds of amber tints to add...

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2013, 04:08:21 AM »
I don't have any LED's installed on my bike but I think I would choose the amber for the pilot lights.  Amber or yellow is easily seen at a distance so oncoming traffic should be able to pick you out easily.
As for the 32 vs 90 degree angles, your tail light needs the 90 degree type to illuminate your license so your bike is legal.  The 32 degree lights are for the places where you want the beam to shine out of the light socket like the pilot lights and the speedometer.
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JVS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2013, 04:41:58 AM »
I have a similar setup to singhg5's LED video clip as seen here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMCSEraYCxM

I reckon that the white LEDs are more effective and visible to traffic as compared to the amber/yellow ones. All the LEDs I have, pilot lamps, neutral, turn signal, high-beam are the 90º ones. They are great. All bulbs same as GSS's attachment in one of his posts on the previous page.

Here's another glimpse of them on my B5. Skip to the end of the video. They seem too bright in the clip. They do irritate the eye if you stare at them..90º. Very effective for being safe and visible to other drivers/cagers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxxxxxxxxxx (I did not have the headlight On here)

Oh and for the speedo, you should use the white LED, it does a good job of illuminating the dial. You can kind of see that in my video ^
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 10:37:08 AM by JVS »
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GSS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 06:15:50 AM »
+1 on the 90 degree illumination as well as the white pilot/tiger eye LEDs.  These are all amazingly bright. Superbrightleds have a new "brighter" 1157 that is on my list to try.  The two I had bought previously (listed on earlier post) were pretty dim.
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 12:31:23 PM »
Ok, here's some other random observations.  Please comment / question / deride as you will...

I can't get my pilot bulbs out.  I tried with my fingers; the opening is too small.  I got a piece of vinyl tubing that looked like it should fit over the bulb to help, and I proceeded to push the bulb way back into the housing.  My tubing doesn't fit; now it's stuck back there and I can't get to it.  On the second pilot light, instead I tried to pull the rubber housing out, which worked fine until the wire came up tight and pulled the bulb way back into the housing.  Pushing the rubber housing back in place didn't bring the bulb forward, so now both the pilot bulbs are buried way back where I can't reach them and they probably won't be very visible.  I can't reach around from the inside of the headlight casing, what with all the wires and cables and speedo in the way... what's the best way to deal with those pilot bulbs - pull the speedo?

I can't get a look at the pilot bulbs' socket end (see previous paragraph  ;) ), but the glass end is definitely not the same size and shape as the speedo backlight bulb.  Is it likely that they are both BA9 bulbs?  My parts catalog says the speedo indicator lights are BA9 (2 watt), the speedo backlight spec isn't indicated (3.4 watt), and the pilot bulbs are BA7 (2 watt).

The BA9 bulbs appear to have small sharp round "bayonets" that anchor the bulbs with a twist; the BA7 bulbs seem to have elongated smoother bayonets - do the BA7's anchor with a twist too, or do they just press fit?

The more I write, the more I think I will just double check my bulbs.  I'm thinking that if I remove my speedo, I'll have all the room I need in there to get to all the lights?  And, what's the trick for the pilot lights?

ps: I was poking around with these things this morning, and I got pretty cold pretty quickly - and no wonder... it's 6 degrees F out this morning, and 15 in my unheated garage!

gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 05:32:14 PM »
bulletwalla (ebay vendor name) sells replacement pilot light assemblies with differing color lenses.  They plug into the wiring harness inside the headlight assembly.  the best way to access this wiring is by removing the headlamp. 
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Bulletman

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 05:33:36 PM »
Are there any brighter neutral light and turn signal indicator LED replacement bulbs?  They are hard to see in bright sunlight.
Hi Retrobikeguy,  I have gone through a complete retrofit of my LED lights on the C5  :)  This involved a lot of agony, and trial n error. Likewise I spent a significant amount of time and the guys in the forum helped a lot   8). It was well worth it and was a satisfactory endeavour . follows the link to the whole process. Goodluck.
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,15211.0.html
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 05:50:18 PM »
My headlamp is currently removed, and I agree that this allows easy access to the wiring.  But how do I get to the pilot lamp bulb housings?  Disconnect the wiring in the nacelle and remove them from the front?

mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 08:46:44 PM »
I pulled the speedo and gained all kinds of maneuvering room.  Got the pilot bulb housings free by feeding slack wire from behind and pulling the housings forward.

Regarding the "warning indicator assembly" (the unit where the ammeter used to be) - how the heck do I get the fuel/MIL/park lamps out of the housing?  I can't budge them, and I don't see how the housing comes out of the nacelle.  It doesn't help that everything is covered with a slick coating of ACF-50... yuck  >:( .

My parts catalog is not accurate regarding the pilot bulbs - they are 2 watts, but they're BA9's, just like the rest of 'em here...

barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 09:09:33 PM »
THe difference between the "W" and "4W" LEDs is the number of actual LEDs in them. The "W" has one and is not brighter than the stock bulbs. The "4W" has 4 LEDS in it and is definitely bright enough to see in the sunlight! If you can't see that your turns signal are working, it's because you didn't look! I used the 90 degree ones. BA9S-W4-90-12V $2.98 at the time I bought them.
Get the white ones. The color comes from the lens cover in the speedo.
As for the pilot lights, I pushed the light socket out from behind. They are a snap to change then.
The MIL lights can be a bit of a bear. I used some long needle nose pliers to pull them out.
My tail light and and Jack's both are very good tail lights. At least as bright or brighter than stock. It is the 1157-R19W6 bulb. 19 red and 6 white LEDs
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 09:47:58 PM »
Bare - there seems to be some kind of rubber boot covering up each of the fixtures, and between them and the oil on them, I can't grab hold without slipping.  I couldn't get the indicator lights out of the speedo without some serious prying with a screwdriver.  I'm afraid I'll break something with these leverage tools!  I guess it couldn't hurt to wait until it warms up a little bit, like something above 15 degrees F...

barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 09:51:55 PM »
The speedo were the easiest ones for me! Take a hair dryer out if you want to warm stuff up. Might help!
Bare
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2013, 11:55:30 PM »
Bare -

In another LED thread (http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,15211.msg163508.html#msg163508) there was a discussion about left and right flashers not working properly, and Gremlin provided the circuit diagram for how the indicator bulb relies on the unlit bulbs for grounding:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15211.0;attach=15981;image

And he illustrated how to utilize diodes to allow the LED replacement bulbs to work:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15211.0;attach=16061;image

It appears to me that in order to replace the indicator bulb with an LED, the diode scheme must be implemented, regardless of whether the factory turn signal bulbs are retained or they are replaced with LEDs.  Yet you appear to state that you made a direct indicator bulb replacement without adding any diodes.  Singhg5 has a video where he also apparently makes a direct indicator replacement without adding any diodes.

Do I need the diodes or not?  What am I missing here?

GSS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2013, 02:03:16 AM »
You do need the diode otherwise you will see the opposite side lights blinking faintly due to the common circuit.
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 02:15:35 AM »
GSS - Isn't that a symptom that appears when the 4 turn signal lights themselves are replaced with low current-draw LEDs?  I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing - I'm keeping the turn signal lights incandescent, only switching the indicator light in the speedo.  This LED should draw even less power than the incandescent speedo indicator bulb, so it shouldn't be any more likely to cause the opposite sides to flash any more then they do now, which they don't.  But the LED, in theory, only passes current one way, so I'm thinking that without the diodes the LED indicator light will only illuminate with one flashing side or the other, depending on the polarity of the socket wiring, but not both.

Am I out in left field on this one?

barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 02:53:06 AM »
Quote
Yet you appear to state that you made a direct indicator bulb replacement without adding any diodes.

That's right. Only if you put LEDs in the stalks do you need the diodes. The problem is actually with the flasher. Using the LEDs in the stalks reduces the resistance to the point that the flasher won't work right, similar to the problem you seen when a bulb burns out and the flashing rate doubles. Using just the LED in the speedo indicator will not reduce the resistance through the flasher enough to cause any problem.
As for the taillight mentioned, the license plate lighting is taken care of by the 6 white LEDs which surround and point radially around the 19 red tail/brake LEDs. 1157-R19W6 bulb.
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gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 03:32:43 AM »
some LED devices have a bridge circuit so they may operate regardless of polarity and on AC circuits.  Less expensive units will only light up for one direction.
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GSS

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 04:59:15 AM »
GSS - Isn't that a symptom that appears when the 4 turn signal lights themselves are replaced with low current-draw LEDs?  I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing - I'm keeping the turn signal lights incandescent, only switching the indicator light in the speedo............Am I out in left field on this one?
You are correct. You can simply change the little indicator bulb to LED without needing diodes if you keep the 4 incandescent "trafficator" lights.
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 11:55:39 AM »
I suppose this is going to be one of those situations where I'll have to trust the experience of others who have done this successfully.  I'm ok with that, but I still would like to get my head around it.

My understanding of how this simple and elegant circuit functions is telling me that the LED substitution shouldn't work without the diode modification.  The system relies on current flowing through the incandescent speedo indicator bulb in both directions - which shouldn't happen with the LED.  Maybe these inexpensive little devices have the bridge circuitry to which Gremlin refers?

Can someone give me the dope-slap I need to wake me up what's happening here?

mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2013, 12:28:10 PM »
Well, the plot thickens - it looks like Gremlin was right, after all...

Bare and singhg5 both promised plug-and-play replacement, and now I see why: the specs for the LEDs in question list 12V AC/DC.  I didn't notice earlier...  :-[

barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2013, 11:17:30 PM »
I didn't promise plug and play with LEDs. Only if you change just the indicator bulb and leave the incandescents in the stalks. Then I will guarantee the turn signals will work. Withall the hassles going on with diodes and othere doodads, I just left the incandescents in to start with. So I changed one bulb, which ws the one I wanted to be able to see and left the rest stock. My turn signals work, and I can see the indicator in any lighting situation. Exactly what I wanted! And I sure wasn't worried about theose4 little bulbs running my battery down as little as I use turn signals. And now that I can see the indicator light, I  seldom leave them on!
Bare
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b.sheets

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2013, 11:25:41 PM »
It appears to me that in order to replace the indicator bulb with an LED, the diode scheme must be implemented, regardless of whether the factory turn signal bulbs are retained or they are replaced with LEDs.  Yet you appear to state that you made a direct indicator bulb replacement without adding any diodes.  Singhg5 has a video where he also apparently makes a direct indicator replacement without adding any diodes.

Do I need the diodes or not?  What am I missing here?

Why so much confusion?

The indicator bulb is a direct swap. no wiring needed. no diode needed.
A DIRECT BULB SWAP from original bulb to LED.

ONLY....and I mean ONLY if you put LED bulbs in your actual turn signals.(not the indicator) do you need the DIODE kit.
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Arizoni

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2013, 01:05:30 AM »
mattsz:  Let me take a stab at an explanation.

The power supplied to the trafficator bulb to lite either the right or the left trafficators is positive (+) current.
Most of it goes towards lighting the bulbs where it runs to the negative ground thru the bulb but a connecting branch from this positive side runs to the indicator light in the speedometer.
This positive power goes thru the indicator bulb, and into the positive side of the other unlit trafficator bulbs on the other side of the bike.  This power doesn't know that this other side could also be a positive if it were turned on.  It only sees that by passing thru the unlit trafficator bulbs on the other side of the bike it can get to the negative ground so that's exactly what it does.  The result is the indicator  bulb lights.

This same thing happens regardless of which sides trafficators are being lit.

Now that I've said that, gremlin can shake his head and say, "What a dummy!" and explain to us all just how the indicator light uses its trafficator power to light up.  ;D
Jim
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gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2013, 01:12:08 AM »
Why so much confusion?

The indicator bulb is a direct swap. no wiring needed. no diode needed.
A DIRECT BULB SWAP from original bulb to LED.

ONLY....and I mean ONLY if you put LED bulbs in your actual turn signals.(not the indicator) do you need the DIODE kit.

the "gotcha" here is:  make sure the LED unit you use for the indicator is rated for AC/DC operation.
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gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2013, 01:15:39 AM »
...........gremlin can shake his head and say..........

Told ya so !

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1981 XS11 streetfighter
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Arizoni

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2013, 01:17:36 AM »
Yah but is my story right or wrong?  :-\
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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2013, 01:35:19 AM »
Your story is spot-on !
1996 Trophy 1200
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1983 Venture Royale
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mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2013, 03:10:43 AM »
Last time, then I'll shut up...

Bare - I know, you didn't promise anything!  But you did say that you simply replaced the turn signal indicator bulb with a particular LED and it worked.  To me, that's "plug and play", in this particular instance, anyway.

Arizoni, your description is correct - the circuit is designed to work that way... as long as the indicator light allows current to pass "both ways", like the OEM incandescent bulbs do.

b.sheets - the confusion comes because your run-of-the-mill LED does not allow current to flow "both ways", and it won't work as an indicator without the diode scheme, regardless of whether your actual turn signals are LED or incandescent.

The key point, which Gremlin made, is that a special LED unit designed to light regardless of which way the current flows, like, oh I don't know, an LED rated to work with AC or DC, will work in our circuit, which is designed to have current flow both ways through the indicator light.  I didn't notice until late in the discussion that the LED's in question happen to be rated for AC or DC, and will therefore work without further modification.

Thank you all - now back to our regularly scheduled mayhem...

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2013, 05:04:09 AM »
Mattsz, as a friend with caring and understanding, TRY NOT TO THINK SO MUCH !
I would much rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow    Jack

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2013, 11:58:26 AM »
Jack - It's nice to know someone cares...   ;)

I can't help it!  It seemed like it should be so simple and understandable, yet it didn't work the way I thought it should.  So many differing and somewhat conflicting responses and appeared when I tried to sort it out, I just had to get to the bottom of it.

Should I seek professional help?

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2013, 03:36:39 PM »
Mattz: It's all good...Remember its only snow and it will melt.. ;D
Oh Magoo you done it again

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2013, 07:01:48 PM »
Regarding the "warning indicator assembly" (the unit where the ammeter used to be) - how the heck do I get the fuel/MIL/park lamps out of the housing?  I can't budge them, and I don't see how the housing comes out of the nacelle.

The MIL lights can be a bit of a bear. I used some long needle nose pliers to pull them out.

The speedo indicator bulb sockets are mounted in black plastic housings, which you can grab with pliers and pull out of flush holes in the back of the speedo.  The MIL bulb sockets insert directly into collars which stick out of the bottom of the warning indicator assembly about 1/2 inch, and rubber covers press-fit over these.  The holes are not flush with the back of the assembly - even though they look to me just like the speedo bulb mountings.

I assumed that the MIL lights were the same, and since I couldn't get the assembly out of the nacelle, I tried to remove the bulb housings just like I did with the speedo.  However, in this case, gentle application of pliers = broken collar on back of assembly.  I may also have broken the chrome ring and glass from the top trying to remove the damn thing.  I have to remove it now, to try to assess the damage and hopefully repair it.

So:  How do I remove the warning indicator assembly" from the nacelle?  I can't see anything holding it in except for a press fit into a rubber grommet, but I simply can't budge it in any direction.

 >:(

Jack Leis

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2013, 08:42:13 PM »
Mattsz, I feel your pain. I couldn't remove my MIL/Fuel lamps either. I flat gave up. but, you can remove the entire gauge assembly by spraying Windex or any soap / water combination around the outside of the housing on top of the nacelle and deliberately press and wiggle from the inside to push it up. It might be slow moving at first but as lubricant is introduced inside the rubber it will pull out. There may be several other ways to do it but that's what worked for me.
I would much rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow    Jack

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2013, 09:27:16 PM »
Thanks, Jack.  It's that disheartening crack and the realization that you were in fact tugging on something too hard that wasn't meant to be tugged on...

Does the rubber remain in the nacelle, or does it come out with the housing?

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2013, 09:33:24 PM »
Thanks, Jack.  It's that disheartening crack and the realization that you were in fact tugging on something too hard that wasn't meant to be tugged on...

Does the rubber remain in the nacelle, or does it come out with the housing?
Once the instrument body comes out , the rubber bushing can be removed if I remember right.
I would much rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow    Jack

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2013, 11:55:05 PM »
it all came out as one unit for me, and then I slid the rubber off the assembly...  Never did get the bulbs out...
Chris

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2013, 12:47:00 AM »
Well, I've got a fresh bottle of Windex ("tooling up" for my tire exchange) and so I'll put it too 'er and see what happens.  I've gotta get it out to see how badly I broke it.  I'm hoping some "super glue" will take care of it - I can flex the broken bulb mount housing underneath, but it's not completely separated.  Not sure about the lens, though.

Once I understood how the lamps were mounted (after breaking the housing!), I knew what to pull on to remove them, and I actually got the lamp socket removed from the broken fitting without busting it off altogether, so that's worth something, I guess.  Usually, I don't mind being dumb, but sometimes it pisses me off...  :-[

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2013, 01:12:40 AM »
so what is the trick to getting the bulb out?
Chris

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2013, 03:45:33 PM »
Well, I've cluttered up this thread plenty, but I want it to be useful, so here's the latest...

I was able to remove the "Warning Indicator Assembly" using Jack's Windex idea (thanks, Jack!!!  Also works for removing stubborn wedding rings - no, not for the reason you think  ;) ), so I've taken some photos with everything apart.

I originally removed the speedo because I couldn't get to the two headlight-flanking pilot lights, and also because I wasn't able to get to the three colored speedo indicator lights easily.  As you can see, the bulb sockets are enclosed in a black plastic housing which inserts into a hole in the speedo body - the housings can be carefully pried out, or carefully gripped with pliers and pulled out.  The socket housings stay with the sockets:





I assumed that the Warning Indicator Assembly was the same, and now we know the result of that assumption!  It is difficult to see beneath it, even with the speedo removed.  It looked like I should be able to remove the socket housings in the same way, but not so.  The assembly has three tubes that extend below the body, and the bulb sockets fit into those tubes.  The socket housings stay on the assembly.  The sockets have a rubber boot which cover the socket housings, holding them in place (quite tightly) and protecting them from weather, I guess.  Sorry the pics are bad, but if you squint you can at least see the difference between this assembly and the speedo:





Because I couldn't budge the Warning Indicator Assembly from the nacelle, I went for the closest bulb first, the low fuel indicator, and tried to wiggle the socket housing out of it, like I did with the speedo's bulbs… essentially, I was trying to remove the non-removable socket housing, and I broke it.  Not completely, though - I wasn't pulling straight down on the housing, I was trying to wiggle it down so I snapped it sideways.  It's now loose, but one side is still attached (I'm hoping I can glue it back together):



But at least I knew now how it worked.  With the assembly still in the nacelle, I was able to use a flat screwdriver to slowly and carefully work the rubber boot off the socket housing by sliding the lip down in tiny increments, working my way around as much of the boot as I could reach, which was about half way:



I did this on the already broken housing, and I didn't make it any worse.  I did the same with the MIL light, the second-easiest to reach, and was able to do the same.  The parking light is the hardest to reach, but now that I've cheated and have the Warning Indicator Assembly out, they're all easy to reach.

Now that I have changed all the bulbs with the Warning Indicator Assembly off the bike, I see that it's unlikely that I would have been able to do it any other way.  Once I got the rubber boots off, the Low Fuel socket came right out of its housing, but the other two were so tightly wedged in there, I had to use a real solid grip on the assembly, and pliers to pull hard the sockets, with a twisting motion, straight out of the housings.  If I ever need to change a bulb there again, I'd definitely remove the assembly - Windex and a little wiggling and persuasion helped me pull it right out of the nacelle (the rubber bushing came right out with the assembly).

BTW, in case my super-glue repair doesn't work, our hosts supply the whole assembly/bulbs/harness as a unit, for $22.  Not the cheapest lesson learned, but all in all that's not bad...


mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2013, 04:08:42 PM »
Here's another little something...

I like the warm look of the incandescent backlight bulb, and its brightness is perfect for me.  So how do I gain the power savings without changing the look?

I bought some extra LEDs to fool around with and see if I could get a suitable light out of them.  I found the bright 4-LED bulb was too bright, and too cool-white for my liking.  So... I dipped the head into some heavily amber-tinted water-based lacquer that I use for instrument finish.  I wasn't sure what would happen; it's interesting to see how the finish wicked up into the bulb and coated the various bits:





The bulb on the left shows the result of two dips, letting it drip-dry "upside down" so the finish would pool around the bright tip.  The bulb still works, and as long as it doesn't get too hot, the coating should hold up.  If not, well, I'll just plug in one of my other spares.

The result is really very close to the look of the original incandescent.  It's hard to see in the photos, but you get the idea...

Unaltered LED backlight - too white and bright for me:





Dipped LED backlight - just like the good old days:




Yeah, I know, too much free time...

gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2013, 06:37:34 PM »
............. I dipped the head into some heavily amber-tinted water-based lacquer that I use for instrument finish.  ..............

excellent work & write-up

which finish ?  Marine Spar ?
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250


mattsz

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2013, 06:50:17 PM »
Gremlin -  the finish is KTM-9, made by Grafted Coatings...a waterborne, self-crosslinking hybrid urethane/acrylic.  I like it because it's one of the few "non-toxic", non-flammable finishes I can apply with a brush.  Makes my hurdy-gurdies hard and shiny...

barenekd

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2013, 07:52:50 PM »
Quote
so what is the trick to getting the bulb out?

I had a long pair of needle nose pliers and I grabbed the two wires coming out of the bulb and pulled them out that way. It worked for me. No casualties. they were tight, but came out! Would I recommend it? I dunno. Would I do it that way again? Yes.
Bare
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gremlin

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Re: Are there any brighter neutral light LED replacement bulbs?
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2013, 03:24:24 AM »
..............the finish is KTM-9, made by Grafted Coatings...............................  Makes my hurdy-gurdies hard and shiny...

hard & shiny ? .....  snicker snicker ........

Thanks !
1996 Trophy 1200
2011 RE B5
1979 XS11 w/vetter terraplane
1981 XS11 streetfighter
1983 Venture Royale
1982 CB750K
1971 Triumph Trident
1969 CB450
1966 Sears (puch) 250